Hot Toys Justice League Superman

[Hoody999]

I haven’t been following this thread. Did they ever fix the hair on the headsculpt to have it parted the other way?

No confirmation as far as I've heard. However they've had enough time to make the change

 

[Fadz]

I?ve posted this before on this thread, with no response, so I?ll just ask again.

Would it be possible for any one of us who lives in HK to give HT a call and inquire about the release date for the product on behalf of all of us ?

 

[Alatar]

Eh. If anything, Black Label and BOp shows they learned a lesson since BOP and Joker are significantly cheaper (therefore not standard four quadrant blockbusters). If they attempt Superman again, it's gonna be a crowd pleasing take, of that I'm sure. Especially after they recently shot down Henry Cavill's pitch with Christopher McQuarrie.

The "they" at DC Films that shot that down was the old regime has been/is being replaced, though. This is just my speculation but I think since not long after BvS the top brass at WarnerMedia (execs above DC Films) such as CEO John Stankey have been patiently biding their time and waiting for the Abrams deal to go through. They've been waiting for Abrams to come aboard. This explains why a minimum number of films are being made, and they're not going for interconnected worldbuilding with intertwining plotlines and arcs a la the MCU. Or that is at least one major reason why. I think that's also why Cavill has been in limbo and we haven't seen a Superman film. They've been holding off on it (including the casting of the lead role) until Abrams wraps Rise of Skywalker and can begin his next film project. Because Abrams wants to film that character. That's why they're giving Battison's separate universe Supergirl to start. They want to avoid overlap of characters between the two separate continuities (i.e., the existing one and the new one launched by Battinson).

I think the narrative they hope to create is that that Abrams will 'rescue' and 'rehabilitate' what is seen as the subpar, damaged existing continuity, one that many regard as substandard compared with the gold standard MCU.

I am truly curious what approach Abrams will take with Superman. Because what he has said about what he wanted to do with the character back in 2002 is actually reminiscent of what Nolan and Snyder did. (The wild script that was leaked looked like an early draft, and some sort of a deliberate exercise in shattering conventions for Superman; but Abrams also addressed it in an interview when MoS was in development or production and it was a very psychological and un-Donner-like take. Basically Superman being afraid to embrace his powers.)

But by the same token, Abrams learned with TFA that he can make the successful safe crowdpleaser. And yet it looks like Joker is going to be a massive success in terms of establishing a unique identity for DC Films as mature and director driven, and not the homogenized MCU cookie cutter style. Like, leave that to the MCU because we're never going to beat them at that game.

Aquaman made $1B because it ticks the boxes for what the Asian market likes. Shazam however seriously underperformed, even if it made a profit. I laugh when I see people proclaiming it was a success. I think they learned an important lesson from it. The box office difference between the very safe, MCU-like Shazam and Joker at the other end of the spectrum will be huge.

Although in terms of how damaged the DCEU is... honestly, is SS really worse than Thor: Dark World or IM 2 or 3? Shazam made about the same money as Ant-man and the Wasp, and quality-wise I would say they are about on par. Shazam (though not my cup of tea personally) is at least as good as many of the MCU films. MoS And BvS are more polarizing than any MCU films (with the possible exception of Captain Marvel), but there is no denying that Snyder has an ardent fanbase. Snyder haters will always minimize or deny that. But every time I run a poll in the DC_Cinematic subreddit, fans of BvS and MoS and the Snyder vision far outnumber the more vocal haters--like by 2:1. Which interestingly more or less matches movie fan site audience scores at IMDb, RT, Fandango, and Metacritic, which is around 63-80%. It's evident that haters are more caustic, bitterly vocal, and downvote, etc., whereas the supporters are literally more of a silent majority. In general people tend to get more energized--and then more vocal--about something they hate or find threatening versus something they love.

Justice League was an absolute unmitigated disaster, it even had mustache-gate--and we're soon going to find out how much of that was because of studio interference versus whether Snyder just made a movie that truly sucks. But if Snyder's version of JL is actually decent... or at least on par with MoS and BvS for those that enjoy his work... then I can see the Black Label release of it working toward the rehabilitation narrative.

 

[Hoody999]

Great post.

I am by no means an ardent lifelong DC fan, I just really enjoyed MoS and BvS (extended cut). They were far deeper in their take on humanity or real world issues than any MCU film was.

But anyway one of the main issues I see is how to bridge that gap with existing JL characters and whatever comes as new. Surely they have to keep WW, Aquaman, the Flash and I guess Cyborg. I really hope they can keep Cavill as Superman, but Batman what do they do there ?

Was the casting of Battinson a move from the last execs to mess things up for any upcoming JL plans ? I'm not so close to it, so don't know if this even makes sense ??

In any case I really hope JJ does not recast Superman. That would be a tragedy in my eyes. Cavill is perfect imo.

JJ needs to get Affleck back !!! hahaha and simply continue on with JL2 more or less as planned further down the track after a few Superman movies, WW2, Aquaman 2 etc. Yes I know never going to happen....

 

[Alatar]

I just hope they finally show some grit as far as sticking to a plan. My main gripe with this disaster up until now is they never stuck to their guns with dark and different films. This is exactly what made them different to Marvel, and in my opinion more intellectual and interesting.

Have a plan and follow through with it. Without all the re-shoots etc I'm sure the global result for JL would have been half decent.

Anyway hope JJ doesn't just treat it as a re-boot situation, does his one Superman film and then more or less steps away. However i'm sure he has learnt his lesson with Star Wars......

Great post.

I am by no means an ardent lifelong DC fan, I just really enjoyed MoS and BvS (extended cut). They were far deeper in their take on humanity or real world issues than any MCU film was.

But anyway one of the main issues I see is how to bridge that gap with existing JL characters and whatever comes as new. Surely they have to keep WW, Aquaman, the Flash and I guess Cyborg. I really hope they can keep Cavill as Superman, but Batman what do they do there ?

Was the casting of Battinson a move from the last execs to mess things up for any upcoming JL plans ? I'm not so close to it, so don't know if this even makes sense ??

In any case I really hope JJ does not recast Superman. That would be a tragedy in my eyes. Cavill is perfect imo.

JJ needs to get Affleck back !!! hahaha and simply continue on with JL2 more or less as planned further down the track after a few Superman movies, WW2, Aquaman 2 etc. Yes I know never going to happen....

My gut is that the narrative they hope to spin is that Abrams will rescue the existing continuity. Again, I will be shocked if he doesn't direct Superman as his next project. Will he cast Cavill? I don't know. I hope so, because imo he deserves that shot. Cavill has shown that he can physically embody the character beautifully--and that is hugely important for this type of character.

I would love it if the rehabilitation of the existing continuity proceeds as follows:

Abrams makes Superman with Cavill. Abrams manages to masterfully fuse crowdpleasing elements with a truy interesting psychological approach. More of a thought provoking movie than the Donner/Reeve approach.

McQuarrie makes Green Lantern with Tom Cruise. Because why not? Cruise can definitely act. He's great in action adventure films. He'd be awesome as an older Hal. Cast Michael B. Jordan alongside him as John Stewart. That is guaranteed massive box office.

Ben Affleck returns to direct himself in at least one final Batman film with his aging Batman. If he wants to limit it to one film then it will be his swan song. Whatever story he wants to tell. Maybe his character retires, maybe he dies. Whichever. Hopefully he'd just ride off into the sunset so that if he decides to return for one more--say a JL film--that option is there.

Fortunately Flash will proceed as thematically darker and mature, with director of It and Ezra Miller.

WW and Aquaman will continue business as usual. They're already crowdpleasers.

I think the Harley Quinn films, i.e., BoP and TSS, will do robust box office, although BoP at least will be polarizing with critics. There are going to be critics that have it out for James Gunn given his Twitter history, and similarly will go after BoP for what they feel is a negative stereotype of a gay Black Mask. But the audience ignored those critics with Suicide Squad because they love Harley Quinn, and Major Robbie's portrayal of the character. I think that will continue. So we may very well see more films for Robbie's Harley Quinn, with sequels to both BoP and SS2. I suspect James Gunn is going to move over to DC after he completes GotG 3. He'll bring Rooker and Bautista with him.

For Shazam and Black Adam it seems from some of the iconography in Shazam--particularly the Time magazine cover of the Black Zero event, and Superman's torso sporting the Michael Wilkinson designed suit--it will be set in the existing one. This will continue the more popcorn fun side of that universe. (Along with Aquaman.)

And in the meantime they will also develop the new separate Battisnson universe with new characters that will eventually join Batman, including Supergirl and Batwoman. I would not be surprised to see Green Arrow, Martian Manhunter, and Atom added later. I think they will avoid overlap of characters between the two continuities.

I do actually really wonder if the hiring of Matt Reeves to make a Batman trilogy was part of a deliberate effort to undermine and undo the Snyderverse. I suspect it probably was. First Geoff Johns attached himself to The Batman as cowriter, and that is when we started to see Ben Affleck frustrated and miserable about the script. (Before that industry insiders were saying the script was phenomenal, and those that read it still do say that.) I think they basically drove him out, because he had written a psychologically very dark film. This did not align with the "hope, fun, and optimism" mantra the Johns was proclaiming for the franchise. But anyway, they're stuck with the decision to start a new Batman character now and have to figure it how to make it work. So they will go with the two separate continuities route.

 

[Alatar]

I wonder if we wil actually see three continuities for the DC Films franchise:

The existing one which for which Abrams will be chief architect. This is where Superman will live. And perhaps the mantel of the Bat will be passed to Nightwing. If Affleck does return I only envison him doing one or two more films.

Battinson-verse which will be overseen by Matt Reeves. As mentioned above I believe this will try to avoid overlap of characters. There will have to be different versions of the Batman related characters. But that will be the only overlap between this universe and the existing one.

The Harleyverse which will be overseen by James Gunn. This is where we may see the more fun and whimsical characters such as Plastic Man, Booster Gold and Blue Beetle, Lobo, et al.

 

[Alatar]

I haven?t been following this thread. Did they ever fix the hair on the headsculpt to have it parted the other way?

There's been no word on that one way or the other. But at all the conventions, including the most recent one this summer, they have been displaying the prototype that uses the repainted BvS head sculpt.

Which personally makes me happy because I think the JL Supes prototype looks great. I didn't at all like the way the hair was styled all lumpy in the third act of Josstice League. Or in the opening scene with the kids recording him on smartphone, etc. If his hair is the way it appears in the Snyder cut scene of him walking through the scout ship and cornfield scene that's fine, though.

I wonder what if they'll have a HT display at NY Comic-con in just 3 weeks?

 

[Username]

No confirmation as far as I've heard. However they've had enough time to make the change

Of course. I was just curious. Like I say, I haven’t been following this thread.

There's been no word on that one way or the other. But at all the conventions, including the most recent one this summer, they have been displaying the prototype that uses the repainted BvS head sculpt.

That doesn’t follow that they won’t change it of course. Especially for those of us that remember what happened with the BVS release.

 

[Hoody999]

My gut is that the narrative they hope to spin is that Abrams will rescue the existing continuity. Again, I will be shocked if he doesn't direct Superman as his next project. Will he cast Cavill? I don't know. I hope so, because imo he deserves that shot. Cavill has shown that he can physically embody the character beautifully--and that is hugely important for this type of character.

I would love it if the rehabilitation of the existing continuity proceeds as follows:

Abrams makes Superman with Cavill. Abrams manages to masterfully fuse crowdpleasing elements with a truy interesting psychological approach. More of a thought provoking movie than the Donner/Reeve approach.

McQuarrie makes Green Lantern with Tom Cruise. Because why not? Cruise can definitely act. He's great in action adventure films. He'd be awesome as an older Hal. Cast Michael B. Jordan alongside him as John Stewart. That is guaranteed massive box office.

Ben Affleck returns to direct himself in at least one final Batman film with his aging Batman. If he wants to limit it to one film then it will be his swan song. Whatever story he wants to tell. Maybe his character retires, maybe he dies. Whichever. Hopefully he'd just ride off into the sunset so that if he decides to return for one more--say a JL film--that option is there.

Fortunately Flash will proceed as thematically darker and mature, with director of It and Ezra Miller.

WW and Aquaman will continue business as usual. They're already crowdpleasers.

I think the Harley Quinn films, i.e., BoP and TSS, will do robust box office, although BoP at least will be polarizing with critics. There are going to be critics that have it out for James Gunn given his Twitter history, and similarly will go after BoP for what they feel is a negative stereotype of a gay Black Mask. But the audience ignored those critics with Suicide Squad because they love Harley Quinn, and Major Robbie's portrayal of the character. I think that will continue. So we may very well see more films for Robbie's Harley Quinn, with sequels to both BoP and SS2. I suspect James Gunn is going to move over to DC after he completes GotG 3. He'll bring Rooker and Bautista with him.

For Shazam and Black Adam it seems from some of the iconography in Shazam--particularly the Time magazine cover of the Black Zero event, and Superman's torso sporting the Michael Wilkinson designed suit--it will be set in the existing one. This will continue the more popcorn fun side of that universe. (Along with Aquaman.)

And in the meantime they will also develop the new separate Battisnson universe with new characters that will eventually join Batman, including Supergirl and Batwoman. I would not be surprised to see Green Arrow, Martian Manhunter, and Atom added later. I think they will avoid overlap of characters between the two continuities.

I do actually really wonder if the hiring of Matt Reeves to make a Batman trilogy was part of a deliberate effort to undermine and undo the Snyderverse. I suspect it probably was. First Geoff Johns attached himself to The Batman as cowriter, and that is when we started to see Ben Affleck frustrated and miserable about the script. (Before that industry insiders were saying the script was phenomenal, and those that read it still do say that.) I think they basically drove him out, because he had written a psychologically very dark film. This did not align with the "hope, fun, and optimism" mantra the Johns was proclaiming for the franchise. But anyway, they're stuck with the decision to start a new Batman character now and have to figure it how to make it work. So they will go with the two separate continuities route.

I propose Alatar work with JJ at DC !!

That seems like a great way to do it to me.

Worst case if Battinson wouldn't make sense to merge into the JL continuity they could simply recast Affleck after the 3 Battinson films (and all the other JL single movies + Green Lantern etc) and the public wouldn't be confused. That would be probably 6-10 years down the track though.

Anyway let's just hope JJ continues his original take and sticks with Cavill. On one hand he has a history of ripping up any previous ideas and doing his own thing, however as you say Alatar, his view was more or less in line with the Snyderverse. So that's good. Plus if they are "cleaning house" of opposition then this is also a good sign of the potential direction staying the previous course.

On top of all that a release of the Snyder cut would also make even more sense.

Do you have a good source where this type of info is somehow congregated Alatar ?

 

[Alatar]

That doesn’t follow that they won’t change it of course. Especially for those of us that remember what happened with the BVS release.

I wasn't around for that. Did they show something else for the original prototype? I'd be curious to see the difference if so.

 

[Hoody999]

I am truly curious what approach Abrams will take with Superman. Because what he has said about what he wanted to do with the character back in 2002 is actually reminiscent of what Nolan and Snyder did. (The wild script that was leaked looked like an early draft, and some sort of a deliberate exercise in shattering conventions for Superman; but Abrams also addressed it in an interview when MoS was in development or production and it was a very psychological and un-Donner-like take. Basically Superman being afraid to embrace his powers.)

This is exactly what we need I think. Just rehashing the same old takes on a character, brought up as a boyscout with parents on the farm etc etc is boring. We've seen that a million times.

Bring on the deeper analysis of what it is to be a god among humans. The responsibilities he has or doesn't have. Coming to grips with that from his perspective. Making the hard choices in the situation that evil people put him in. Being "human" even though he isn't viewed as that by the global population.

All questions that make a film interesting, and not just shock and awe special effects, beat the villain at the end and everyone lives happily ever after.

 

[Username]

I wasn't around for that. Did they show something else for the original prototype? I'd be curious to see the difference if so.

You know when HT release a “here’s what’s about to release” image?
it was about a month before the BVS Superman released and they showed superman with the MOS headsculpt.

 

[Alatar]

Do you have a good source where this type of info is somehow congregated Alatar ?

My main source is Ping Pong Flix. And I created a news feed for it that I check every so often.

Lol, man, imagine being on that development team for DC Films moving forward! I actually think it's an exciting time. Because Joker is going to change the landscape. And Abrams making a Superman film (or so many of us hope) will generate lots of interest and anticipation.

 

[Hoody999]

My main source is Ping Pong Flix. And I created a news feed for it that I check every so often.

Lol, man, imagine being on that development team for DC Films moving forward! I actually think it's an exciting time. Because Joker is going to change the landscape. And Abrams making a Superman film (or so many of us hope) will generate lots of interest and anticipation.

Yes, the success of Joker and Aquaman, WW and hopefully WW2 must give them confidence going forward. If there wasn't that then they would be playing mega safe. JJ may still play it very safe, as he did with The Force Awakens, however I hope they work with what they have and stick to your plan

Thanks for the source. I'll add that to my favourites to check from time to time.

 

[Alatar]

You know when HT release a “here’s what’s about to release” image?
it was about a month before the BVS Superman released and they showed superman with the MOS headsculpt.

Ah, thanks, good to know. I didn't start collecting until Fall of 2017.

 

[Nine Inch Nails]

Don?t forget Shazam. Even thought it didn?t bring in huge numbers ( I blame hat on placement between captain marvel and endgame) it was still very much liked.

I say let all the horror directors take the dc properties.

 

[hbhf]

Justice League was an absolute unmitigated disaster, it even had mustache-gate--and we're soon going to find out how much of that was because of studio interference versus whether Snyder just made a movie that truly sucks. But if Snyder's version of JL is actually decent... or at least on par with MoS and BvS for those that enjoy his work... then I can see the Black Label release of it working toward the rehabilitation narrative.

I don't think so as all, because "as good as BVS" is still not that good to many people. Remember, BVS had a pretty massive week 2 drop, which is why it failed to hit the billion the studio thought was AT LEAST gonna be a guarantee. That's why I doubt we see Snyder coming back anytime soon, or a Superman that is similar to his take. Like I said, I'm willing to bet money the next Superman, whatever form that takes, is conceived and marketed as a crowd pleaser. They're not gonna spend another 225 million dollars on a "divisive" movie that doesn't make them the kind of cash they were hoping for.

Was the casting of Battinson a move from the last execs to mess things up for any upcoming JL plans ? I'm not so close to it, so don't know if this even makes sense ??

I do actually really wonder if the hiring of Matt Reeves to make a Batman trilogy was part of a deliberate effort to undermine and undo the Snyderverse. I suspect it probably was.

It's really not that deep. Both of Ben Affleck's movies were massively panned and neither performed as well at the box office as expected. So when Ben left (which again, does not seem to be some massive conspiracy; dude dedicated years to preparing for a movie he clearly believed in that ultimately was not received as well as ANYONE was hoping it would) they gave the new director free reign to do what he wanted rather than make it a continuation of Snyder's version. Which is more or less what they seem to be doing with DC films as a whole.

Reeves was not forced to align his vision with Snyder's because by that point, Snyder was gone and it was clear a great many people didn't actually care all that much about whether or not it continued.

 

[Username]

Ah, thanks, good to know. I didn't start collecting until Fall of 2017.

Yeah. To the best of my knowledge it?s the only time they have ever teased a new figure that?s due out that quarter with the body of the new one and the headsculpt of the old one.
We were all full of nerd rage until the new one released with the new head, lol.

 

[Fadz]

The waiting is tough

Any soldiers out there in HK who can drop a telephone to HT and ask them for the rest of us ?

 

[TexasFi3nd]

Tomorrow we'll see if the rumor was true about JL Superman releasing in Hong Kong. Im hoping to wake up with flooded images just like with JL Batman a few weeks ago. Though, there was a teaser pic right before the release of JL bats. I haven't seen any teaser pics of Superman or heard anything else.

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