Hot Toys Justice League Wonder Woman

[LIBBY1957DOG]

slightly better pictures ,taken outside

 

[sj2106]

So the guy with both figures in hand is adamant it's the same sculpt but that still isn't good enough for some lol. Justin's comparison video cleared it up as far as I'm concerned.

HT own website lists it as a "newly painted sculpt" and not a "newly develped sculpt" as they do for completely new heads.

I know some people love conspiracies but what exactly would HT have to gain from developing and releasing a new sculpt in secret then trying to pass it off as a repaint?

 

[Jaymas]

Well go figure, in hind sight, I wish I didn't post that pic now.

no no, I am glad you did. The "debate" doesn't bother me, and the more pictures the better even if there is no definitive agreement about what everyone is seeing or thinks they are seeing based on the limits of judging such things from pictures. It's all good. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Darkavatar]

So the guy with both figures in hand is adamant it's the same sculpt but that still isn't good enough for some lol. Justin's comparison video cleared it up as far as I'm concerned.

It showed me the opposite, I couldn't get over the part where he says this proves that both that the noses are the same length, when its clear on the video they are not. And people were asking him in the comments why did he say that the noses are the same length when it's obvious they are not, and his response is that it isn't noticeable in hand.

HT own website lists it as a "newly painted sculpt" and not a "newly develped sculpt" as they do for completely new heads.

I know some people love conspiracies but what exactly would HT have to gain from developing and releasing a new sculpt in secret then trying to pass it off as a repaint?

It's not about it being a conspiracy, I just don't think Hot Toys cared enough to say they changed it, or tweaked it. Remember when people thought the BVS sculpt was the same sculpt as the proto?

 

[jki&Cri]

The two sculpts without everything else.
They look the same to me.

 

[Jaymas]

It's not about it being a conspiracy, I just don't think Hot Toys cared enough to say they changed it, or tweaked it. Remember when people thought the BVS sculpt was the same sculpt as the proto?

I'm not sure that is a good example, because the proto and what we got could still be a "new developed sculpt" from the same artists... just not the same from one another; but that is the nature of a protype. In the case of when they say they are using a "newly painted sculpt" they are telling us it is the same sculpt as a previous release but with a different paint app. That is a lot different from the process from pro-type to final product of a brand new sculpt.

My guess is, that if there is a physical difference in the sculpt it is due to some kind variance in the production process from run to run (like shrinkage or something maybe?). I don't know a lot about the production process to say this for sure, and Hot Toys seems very consistent so I am not sure if this guess is even fair (or even if in reality the sculpt is actually different at all). But, perhaps though the reworking of the existing sculpt to include the tiara or the process involved in rooting the hair changed something in the way the sculpt came out subtly in it's proportions because of the production process even though they used the same sculpt as the 'mold'? Again... just speculating on why there may be a difference, if there is one at all.

 

[Darkavatar]

no no, I am glad you did. The "debate" doesn't bother me, and the more pictures the better even if there is no definitive agreement about what everyone is seeing or thinks they are seeing based on the limits of judging such things from pictures. It's all good. Thanks for posting it.

Glad you appreciate it, but like I said in one of my previous post, I am not trying to convince anyone that it is a different sculpt and I felt by posting that picture, I was being a hypocrite, and was trying to convince people that it was a different sculpt, hence why I deleted it and only went back and post it again because you replied to it.

 

[Darkavatar]

I'm not sure that is a good example, because the proto and what we got could still be a "new developed sculpt" from the same artists... just not the same from one another; but that is the nature of a protype. In the case of when they say they are using a "newly painted sculpt" they are telling us it is the same sculpt as a previous release but with a different paint app. That is a lot different from the process from pro-type to final product of a brand new sculpt.

Maybe not, just thought I would throw it out there since so many people believed the they did not change the BVS HS from the prototype.

My guess is, that if there is a physical difference in the sculpt it is due to some kind variance in the production process from run to run (like shrinkage or something maybe?). I don't know a lot about the production process to say this for sure, and Hot Toys seems very consistent so I am not sure if this guess is even fair (or even if in reality the sculpt is actually different at all). But, perhaps though the reworking of the existing sculpt to include the tiara or the process involved in rooting the hair changed something in the way the sculpt came out subtly in it's proportions because of the production process even though they used the same sculpt as the 'mold'? Again... just speculating on why there may be a difference, if there is one at all.

All good points, that quite possibly might be the case.

 

[Jaymas]

Glad you appreciate it, but like I said in one of my previous post, I am not trying to convince anyone that it is a different sculpt and I felt by posting that picture, I was being a hypocrite, and was trying to convince people that it was a different sculpt, hence why I deleted it and only went back and post it again because you replied to it.

Oh, sorry about that, I wasn't trying to make you re-post something you deleted. But I don't think you are a hypocrite. You see what you see and are pointing out why you see it... I just thought it was interesting that I came to a different conclusion than you did from the same pictures; but neither of us are trying to convince the other of anything and I haven't read anything you have written as if you were trying to prove anything definitively. I know people take the "debate" too far and think they need to 'prove they are right' in forums like this... we see it in this thread... but I just see you sharing you're point of view in a friendly way, and I appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[sj2106]

It showed me the opposite, I couldn't get over the part where he says this proves that both that the noses are the same length, when its clear on the video they are not. And people were asking him in the comments why did he say that the noses are the same length when it's obvious they are not, and his response is that it isn't noticeable in hand.




It's not about it being a conspiracy, I just don't think Hot Toys cared enough to say they changed it, or tweaked it. Remember when people thought the BVS sculpt was the same sculpt as the proto?

No because they showed the new head about a month before the figures release. I remember the debate as to whether it was any better than the original prototype.

I think the training head has a better paint app than this JL head. Maybe the new heads came out a slightly different size but it's still based on the same underlying sculpt.

By seeing the full brow of the training sculpt you get the full effect of the frown selling the likeness. That somewhat covers for the parts of the face that miss the mark.

With the tiara on you naturally focus more on the inaccuracies. Still work for HT to do to deliver a truly accurate Gal Gadot likeness.

 

[QuiGonFishing]

Good Lord!

You DO understand that just because it’s the “same” sculpt doesn’t mean both are from the same mold, right?

Hot Toys probably created new molds for the new run using the same base sculpt. It’s virtually impossible to clone molds with 100% accuracy/efficiency. There are always subtle differences just like we’ve seen in later runs of the same figure for years.

It makes perfect sense to me that after the TA run was complete (for now at least) with its xx,xxx number of units that a new fresh mold was ordered removing the sculpted hair line in favor of a smooth base for the rooted hair, etc. and PRESTO, slightly pointier nose, subtle differences elsewhere....same sculpt (and new paint job too!).

 

[Darkavatar]

Oh, sorry about that, I wasn't trying to make you re-post something you deleted.

You have nothing to feel sorry about, I just regret posting it is all.

But I don't think you are a hypocrite. You see what you see and are pointing out why you see it... I just thought it was interesting that I came to a different conclusion than I did from the same pictures; but neither of us are trying to convince the other of anything and I haven't read anything you have written as if you were trying to prove anything definitively. I know people take the "debate" too far and think they need to 'prove they are right' in forums like this... we see it in this thread... but I just see you sharing you're point of view in a friendly way, and I appreciate it. Thanks.

I am glad you see it that way but many others don't, so I don't want to rattle people's cages and continue this debate. I feel a lot of people here are making excuses for the reasons why some things look off with this sculpt.

 

[Jaymas]

Good Lord!

You DO understand that just because it’s the “same” sculpt doesn’t mean both are from the same mold, right?

lol... a bit condescending to expect everyone to understand a manufacturing process as if it is common knowledge But, yea... I put 'mold' in single quotation marks for the sake of simplification; but the fact that they had added the tiara alone mean's they would have to at least rework an existing mold. But I have no idea how long a mold lasts between, or even during, runs; or how they are created from the original artist's sculpt.

Hot Toys probably created new molds for the new run using the same base sculpt. It’s virtually impossible to clone molds with 100% accuracy/efficiency. There are always subtle differences just like we’ve seen in later runs of the same figure for years.

It makes perfect sense to me that after the TA run was complete (for now at least) with its xx,xxx number of units that a new fresh mold was ordered removing the sculpted hair line in favor of a smooth base for the rooted hair, etc. and PRESTO, slightly pointier nose, subtle differences elsewhere....same sculpt (and new paint job too!).

Well, without as much of a detailed understanding of the process, that is essentially what I was guessing could be the case in my previous post.

 

[Rainpaulo]

Makes me laugh..... people trying desperately to convince each other this looks like Gal.....it doesn't.

 

[Darkavatar]

No because they showed the new head about a month before the figures release. I remember the debate as to whether it was any better than the original prototype.

There was a debate that it was the same as the proto as well, they said why would Hot Toys change it. I remember people saying it looks the same as the proto to me.

I think the training head has a better paint app than this JL head. Maybe the new heads came out a slightly different size but it's still based on the same underlying sculpt.

Yes I know that, I don't mean its a new sculpt from scratch, I meant there are differences in it, the one being the larger pointier nose, but some people can't even accept that, they think it is the exact same head sculpt with the same nose.

By seeing the full brow of the training sculpt you get the full effect of the frown selling the likeness. That somewhat covers for the parts of the face that miss the mark.

With the tiara on you naturally focus more on the inaccuracies. Still work for HT to do to deliver a truly accurate Gal Gadot likeness.

Good point, but I was not really debating about area, it was the jaw shape that looked off to me, it doesn't look as round and wide as Training sculpt.

Anyway what both Jaymas & QuiGonFishing said in their post makes a lot of sense and that's my belief what happened.

 

[QuiGonFishing]

lol... a bit condescending to expect everyone to understand a manufacturing process as if it is common knowledge But, yea... I put 'mold' in single quotation marks for the sake of simplification; but the fact that they had added the tiara alone mean's they would have to at least rework an existing mold. But I have no idea how long a mold lasts between, or even during, runs; or how they are created from the original artist's sculpt.

Well, without as much of a detailed understanding of the process, that is essentially what I was guessing could be the case in my previous post.

Yep. And my apologies. I wasn’t trying to level any condescension at anyone personally. Just my emotional reaction (i.e. frustration) to pages and pages of theory and debate when in seemed (to me at least) that the answer was as plain as the pointy nose on her face...!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

By seeing the full brow of the training sculpt you get the full effect of the frown selling the likeness. That somewhat covers for the parts of the face that miss the mark.

With the tiara on you naturally focus more on the inaccuracies. Still work for HT to do to deliver a truly accurate Gal Gadot likeness.

My thoughts exactly. Not only is it the tiara covering the furrow, it’s also the bad rooted hair that’s throwing it off from both the likeness and the fact that it’s the same sculpt..

Hopefully theres a good amount of futzing/styling that can be done to remedy the likeness. That, or if it can be modded without too much effort.

 

[sj2106]

There was a debate that it was the same as the proto as well, they said why would Hot Toys change it. I remember people saying it looks the same as the proto to me.



Yes I know that, I don't mean its a new sculpt from scratch, I meant there are differences in it, the one being the larger pointier nose, but some people can't even accept that, they think it is the exact same head sculpt with the same nose.



Good point, but I was not really debating about area, it was the jaw shape that looked off to me, it doesn't look as round and wide as Training sculpt.

Anyway what both Jaymas & QuiGonFishing said in their post makes a lot of sense and that's my belief what happened.

Apologies if I was coming across as argumentative there.

I think I misunderstood your original point. A new mould could of course lead to the parts of the heads turning out a little bigger or smaller etc. I thought you were suggesting it was an entirely new sculpt. my bad.

The training version is a beautiful figure but the sculpt is being overrated slightly. It's good but still far from a perfect likeness. Without the furrowed brow I imagine it would get a lot more criticism. I hope it doesn't turn out like Ledger Jokers where they never quite nail the likeness.

 

[Darkavatar]

Apologies if I was coming across as argumentative there.

No apologies needed, you did not upset me in the slightest, was just explaining that it's messed up that some people refused to believe that Hot Toys changed the proto BVS sculpt, when it's obvious they did, if I recall people said same sculpt different paint job and it's the lighting making it look different. And I am seeing the same thing here it's obvious that the nose on the JL sculpt is different, yet some people refuse to believe that and come up with excuses why it looks different to Training one.

I think I misunderstood your original point. A new mould could of course lead to the parts of the heads turning out a little bigger or smaller etc. I thought you were suggesting it was an entirely new sculpt. my bad.

No course not, l said it in one post that I think it's based on the Training sculpt but looks like some areas have been changed, guess I didn't reinforce my POV because it seems that most people thought the same as you. So l am actually to blame for not getting my message across, not you.

The training version is a beautiful figure but the sculpt is being overrated slightly. It's good but still far from a perfect likeness. Without the furrowed brow I imagine it would get a lot more criticism.

Totally agree with everything you said, I can tell it's Gal but there are a lot of things off with it, on some angles though it looks nearly dead on but from front on not so much.

I hope it doesn't turn out like Ledger Jokers where they never quite nail the likeness.

The main problem with these WW sculpts are that they all lack the exotic look Gal has. They need to make a sculpt that assenuates her exotic features like her almond shaped eyes and thick lips, only then will they ever come close to nailing her likeness.

 

[ZedBelkon]

I certainly haven't purchased it for its accurate depiction of Gal gadot.....none of the Wonder Woman figures have achieved that. As a general wonder Woman figure though, it's looking pretty great.

I sold my BVS wonder woman when I got the Training Armour version. I would rather have the Wonder Woman movie specific figure than a BVS figure. So, my thought process was, if the JL version came with all of the Wonder Woman specific outfit, and I liked it when I saw it, then I would buy it. If I didn't like it, then I'm more than happy with just the Training Armour figure.

I only purchased this last week AFTER watching the unboxing video. I guess that video was responsible for a lot of people cancelling their orders......but I thought she looked great, so it actually generated a sale from me.

I would say that the nose sculpt issue that a lot of people seem to be raising is likely a fraction of a millimetre at most at this scale. That is really not an issue for me, but I can fully appreciate that if it bothers you, then it bothers you - thats fair enough!

At the end of the day, if I get it in hand and i'm hugely underwhelmed, I'll just sell it on. It's looking promising though.

My only real complaint on this head sculpt and therefore the training armour sculpt too, is that they are at least 10-20% undersized. If I could alter any aspect of them, it would be that. Stick TA wonder Woman next to Harley and it looks really out of proportion.