Hot Toys putting Sideshow to shame.

[bagelsncheesey]

Price is always a factor, what you have to decide what you want on the shelf.

Which of these would you want on your shelf to show off?

Sideshows Hellboy?

Or Hot Toys version?

As an owner of many SS 1:6 and HT 1:6, your point is moot by comparing these two products. One was released 3 years ago, and has a price difference of over $100... I mean, lets be serious here.

 

[EVILFACE]

You must not have read the whole thread.

 

[minivader]

So you are upset that SS has the indy license and not HT? What's the hurry? SS is not gonna hold on to the indy license forever. Wait it out for a 1/6 indy that's gonna rock your world and in the mean time enjoy the best you can get at present.

 

[EVILFACE]

Besides the paint, the SS Indy is pretty damn good representation of Indiana Jones. Could HT do better, sure. But like you said, I doubt they will get the chance.

 

[bagelsncheesey]

You must not have read the whole thread.

Of course I did. But you said..

"Price is always a factor, what you have to decide what you want on the shelf.

Which of these would you want on your shelf to show off?"

...and my point was, it's not really a good example at all. Because you're comparing products years apart. It would be different if Sideshow made a Hellboy now. The price would be more, and the sculpt/accessories would be better. Therefore, you can't really say "price is always a factor" and then compare these two.

 

[S-Ramos]

All this will fall on deaf ears, but here it goes.

A big difference would be that HT is an Asian based company dealing in Asia and sell to distributors, with the exception of one retail outlet. Sideshow is an American company which must have its production done in Asia. Its not as cheap as its used to be but still cheaper than US production. Items are packaged for retail and wholesale distribution after being produced. Then these products need to be shipped via cargo container to the states on Sideshow's dollars. These costs include not only actuall shipping prices but any fees and such associated with importing large amounts of heavy merchandise from overseas to a US port. Then Sideshow has to transport these items to their wharehouse which is in the US, where they have to pay US wages. Not only does Sideshow sell to overseas distributors and various forms of retail outlets, they sell directly to collectors via their own website. Im only guessing that the site is run from their headquarters, it would make sense to me. Thats how many more people they have go pay in order to keep it going. How many people and how much money does it actually take to fill and ship orders that for direct orders alone? Add in the pre-production costs associated with each Sideshow release from bobble heads to 1:1 Endos and you have alot of $$$. And thats just with Sideshows own releases. They distribute and sell several other companies products, including Hot Toys! People dont seem to understand that when Sideshow started distributing HT products, that opened the floodgates! Sideshow gave HT a whole new audience that alot of other companies couldnt. Both companies have grown in leaps and bounds since this partnership. And each company knows its place and what they are capable of. Why would Sideshow try to top HT when they can buy HT products for alot cheaper and make more money by selling and distributing it? Alot of it is really common sense.

 

[karamazov80]

I don't buy that. Why can't they pull ahead? If the sculpts are lacking, hire new sculptors. If the paint is lacking, hire new painters. It seems cut and dry to me.

Its not that easy. This happens with any business when new competition pops up that can do things cheaper or better. Sideshow has a set way of doing things, including personnel, business relationships, and operating procedures broadly that are very difficult (and very expensive) to change. They have set administrative staff, production people, suppliers of production material, distributors, marketing personnel, etc., and to change any one of these things requires significant investment, and involves a high degree of risk.

Ultimately, their quality and costs are an attempt to maximize their profits (which includes selling stuff and maintaining a fan base), and often the best way to do this, unless the market dictates otherwise, is to keep things as they are, making only incremental changes (like the Prometheus body), and to raise the price a bit. Though their process is tweaked little by little overtime, you can't just thow out your entire business model and do the same things that Hot Toys is. For whatever reason, it appears that HT is able to produce better stuff more efficiently (read: cheaper) than Sideshow. But Sideshow isn't run by a bunch of idiots. I'm sure that they would make better stuff if they could, but they either can't justify the costs involved (whereas Hot Toys must be able to), or are satisfied with the way that things currently are. Again, even their 1/6 stuff is, for the most part, selling and selling well. If they can move crappier Star Wars stuff for almost the same price as Hot Toys figures, then that means they are bringing in more profits than if they were to invest in the new sculpters, materials, production processes, etc. that you are referring to.

I have no idea what the process and costs involved in production of these things entails, but keep in mind that Hot Toys is a Hong Kong based company, whereas Sideshow is based in the U.S. Sure both companies probably get their toys produced in the same type of factory in China, but administrative costs, and the costs of staff here in the U.S. would be a much bigger financial burden for Sideshow, and that tradeoff occurs in the manner of a crappier product and toys that are more expensive than they would be if Hot Toys were to release them.

 

[Captain Britain]

The thing about the Indiana Jones figure Sideshow put out is that it's worth getting for Trevor's sculpt, but much of the rest is lamentable. The belt and holster stink (thank God for mfisher!). The jacket and shirt stink. Worst of all, the body is unspeakable - it is unforgivable to put something out with such poor quality control. The floppy neck is pissing me off so much that I might just pack up all four Prometheus bodies I own (from the four Indy's I bought) and send them back to Sideshow without any postage.

Sideshow is basically dead as a producer of 1/6 figures. What's coming this year that will be worth getting? Toht and that's it (and that's only 'cause of the melty head).

 

[The Josh]

As an owner of many SS 1:6 and HT 1:6, your point is moot by comparing these two products. One was released 3 years ago, and has a price difference of over $100... I mean, lets be serious here.

I agree. While its the same character and yes I'd choose to go with the HT version. Its 3 years removed and the price difference being what it is HT should be better. So its apples and oranges.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Why do people create these threads and fail to mention that SSC is usually a good 25-40% cheaper?

Yes SSC's prices have climbed closer to HT, but are still relatively far apart. Sorry SSC doesn't make Indy for you, but I'm glad because I couldn't afford HT. So we cancel each other out.

 

[BlindVoyeur]

Hot Toys are indeed great, but the new Joker is hardly the pinnacle of 12" figures today ..

 

[Kibishii]

I don't think that it is Sideshow slacking, so much as Hot Toys single-handedly raising the bar so high. Sometimes, its just not possible to compete with someone that pulls so far ahead of everyone else.

I agree with this.

 

[The Josh]

Why do people create these threads and fail to mention that SSC is usually a good 25-40% cheaper?

Yes SSC's prices have climbed closer to HT, but are still relatively far apart. Sorry SSC doesn't make Indy for you, but I'm glad because I couldn't afford HT. So we cancel each other out.

Yup, 110% correct. If HT made every line I liked I'd really never be able to get anything or have to stop all together.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I'd actually forgive a little quality if SSC would go back to $60 figures.

 

[agent5]

Besides the paint, the SS Indy is pretty damn good representation of Indiana Jones.

The thing about the Indiana Jones figure Sideshow put out is that it's worth getting for Trevor's sculpt, but much of the rest is lamentable.

Both very true points. Even though some of it is pretty off I still love my figure. I just couldn't see HT putting it out in it's current state. It would most likely be much, much better and more accurate. Trevors sculpt basically saved that figure. Had that sculpt been anywhere near as bad as the Bespin Luke or ANH Han, then it wouldn't have sold nearly as well, methinks.

Why do people create these threads and fail to mention that SSC is usually a good 25-40% cheaper?

Actually, as creator of this thread, I did. I wrote...

I think Hot Toys can charge a bit more for the superior quality and I'd be willing to pay more for a figure that is pretty flawless right out of the box, as it should be.

 

[agent5]

Hot Toys are indeed great, but the new Joker is hardly the pinnacle of 12" figures today ..

Just curious as to your opinion on what is? I think that Joker is the freakin' bomb!

Yup, 110% correct. If HT made every line I liked I'd really never be able to get anything or have to stop all together.

This goes back to my initial post about restraint and really keeping focused and sticking to my main hobby. If I bought even half of what I liked I'd be broker than broke. I want that Joker figure SOOOO badly but I need to stay focused on just Raiders stuff, which is my real love and hobby.

 

[karamazov80]

I'd actually forgive a little quality if SSC would go back to $60 figures.

I think that is where the frustration kicks in. You and TheJosh are right, of course, in that there is a noticeable price difference, but when something like Snake Eyes only costs $30 or so less than what you could pay for something of Hot Toys quality, then the extra cost really doesn't seem so great, and then people like agent5 (and myself) have to debate if Sideshow is really worth the price anymore.

This is actually one component of an psychological theory called "prospect theory." Once you have already seriously considered paying a certain, high amount for something, it is pretty easy to justify paying more (even if it is a fair amount higher) for something similar but nicer, than if you hadn't already considered buying the cheaper thing.

Wal-Mart is very effective at exploiting this phenomenon, if you see their dirt cheap TVs being displayed right near the better quality, but more expensive ones, and even better quality, even more expensive ones right next to that. When people see this, they often get the more expensive one, even if they went to the store seeing the ad for the dirt cheap one from the no-name brand.

 

[THX-182]

I'd actually forgive a little quality if SSC would go back to $60 figures.

Bingo. The prices are getting to be way too ridiculous. $70-$80 for a simple figure like Lando? Come on. I'm hooked on Hot Toys like crack now and am seriously considering making them my sole fix for 1/6 scale figures. Sideshow can't even seem to touch them when you see things like Dutch and Joker.

 

[bearmodel]

If I had one problem with Sideshow it is the QC . I'm so tired of hearing how many people complain about their statue having paint defects or chips. People should complain if they don't get a mint piece, but I think SS screwed up big time with Iron Man life size bust and Iron Spider Man. The QC on those should have been reinforced for they were highly expected pieces and should have not had so many problems with the paint job.

When it comes to 1/6 scale, Hot Toys rules, no doubt about it. Sideshow main products are Premium Formats and Maquettes as well as Prop Replicas and those for the most part are exceptional.

I have to say that lately I've been surprised with some of the products they released. Some 12 inch figures I think are not up to Sideshow standards in my opinion. When I think of Sideshow, I think Premium Formats, Stan Winston, Hot Toys. I guess I expect higher quality products sometimes....

 

[pixletwin]

I don't think HT puts SS to shame. SS aims to hit a totally different price point. They are two totally difference species. While HT is more of a gorilla, Sideshow is a chimpanzee.