If you think IronMan 1:2 is thin look at this...

[Superman]

To be fair, Sideshow didn't advertise this statue as solid polystone sculpture or hollow. If they want to produce a hollow statue, that is up to the producer.
Hollow statues are more prone to breakage and I'm sure they realize that and that they were willing to take the risk of having to take the responsibility to replace the broken ones should they break during transit.

Obviously the cost to make these are far less than they would be if it was solid cast. However they know it would be cheaper to replace broken ones made this cheaply than to offer a more solid and stronger product. What I am saying here are we as collectors prefer the stronger and more solid casts as they not only last longer, but their re-sale value remains higher. Anyone who knows how thin this is would be very weary to buy it off of e-bay secondhand knowing they don't have a way to return it if it is broken during transit.

Actually I'm fairly well aware of what I have said over the previous few pages. As to why your attacking averone, well, that's anyone's guess. Did you even read the past posts or just skip to the last couple.



To answer your first question, no I don't own the IM 1:2, but I do own a number of SS and Weta statues and do currently have a $2K item on order.
Also, no, it's not about jumping on a bandwagon, it was in fact about who, from a customer point of view, should take responsibility for the quality of the products that Sideshow sells. All products, not just the IM 1:2 or this very thin Zangief statue, but those are two very current examples.
My argument, backed up by fact's, was that even tho the Zangief statue was 'made' by Pop Culture, as their sole world-wide retailer and distributor of their products, from a customer point of view, Sideshow was responsible for overseeing quality control and delivering what the customer paid for.
Now sure, you can return/replace, etc, but this isn't about a single item or even a single line, it's about expecting the industry to do better. So that the next package you open or the next order you place or even the first photo's on a forum, isn't about being worried or half expecting or looking to see what went wrong, does the production item matches the images displayed for pre-order.
Surely there is nothing worse then opening that new statue, with your fingers crossed, hoping that you didn't get a 'bad one' and by that I mean, one that isn't considered a 'fault', but still has a so-so paint job or crossed eye's or even chipped/broken at the factory, boxed up and then still sent to a customer.

As for making a business subservient, I don't see it that way. You make it sound as if a customer should just shut-up and be happy to get anything.
Yet, for as long as I can remember, there's been that big talk and policies and procedures all about 'continuous improvement', in products, in services, in everything that a company does. I'd like to hope that something more then just returns/refunds would feed back into that philosophy and that what I say is taken as the constructive criticism that it is.

I don't want to see Sideshow fail. What I want is for every product that they ship, to be as good as the Evil Queen PF I received a couple of weeks ago. Now sure, that maybe a tall order, but that is what 'continuous improvement' is all about. Can Sideshow do better, I believe they can, should they do better, yes.

BTW, the above does just apply to Sideshow, I expect the same from Weta, Hot Toys and all the other high-end collectible companies. It's just that Sideshow are the largest, so take the bigger hit.

Excellent post.

 

[mt24]

Obviously the cost to make these are far less than they would be if it was solid cast. However they know it would be cheaper to replace broken ones made this cheaply than to offer a more solid and stronger product. What I am saying here are we as collectors prefer the stronger and more solid casts as they not only last longer, but their re-sale value remains higher. Anyone who knows how thin this is would be very weary to buy it off of e-bay secondhand knowing they don't have a way to return it if it is broken during transit.



Excellent post.

That is true. Good post.

 

[Kibishii]

In reality, instead of rallying the torchbearers, if you simply sent the piece back for a refund and spent your money elsewhere, you'd be making a considerably more mature point, than the continual long-winded entitlement rants you keep posting that are going in one ear and out the other of the company you're trying to address.

Perfect post. I have no problem with people making a post expressing their opinion to make it clear that they are unhappy with a decision Sideshow has made. However, some people are just spinning their wheels and the Sideshow reps are NOT going to waste their time reading it (heck, I read just a few and just got annoyed and stopped reading).


*On a side not, Jerry at Pop Culture has already addressed complaints about Zangief. He felt the heat and made it clear that he won't do that again...why people are still going on about him is beyond me.

 

[Superman]

Perfect post. I have no problem with people making a post expressing their opinion to make it clear that they are unhappy with a decision Sideshow has made. However, some people are just spinning their wheels and the Sideshow reps are NOT going to waste their time reading it (heck, I read just a few and just got annoyed and stopped reading).


*On a side not, Jerry at Pop Culture has already addressed complaints about Zangief. He felt the heat and made it clear that he won't do that again...why people are still going on about him is beyond me.

WEll, let's hope Sideshow decides to responds in the same manner that Jerry has at Pop Culture and opens their eyes for future products..

 

[devilof76]

Business is a servant of its consumer. Only in a communist country it is the opposite. In America, we can choose to inform the company we are not liking what we are seeing so they have a chance to make changes. We then have then have the right to take our money elsewhere when they do not listen to us and follow your business model. The consumer in mass are always right.

As for your comparison to the consumer/free market system as being similar as those wanting entitlements from our government health care industry is a very big stretch. In fact, it would be those wanting freedom of choice where we can decide to choose a better insurance plan instead of a single payer government run plan that would be similar to those of us moving along from sideshow products if we don't see them improving their products.

Consumers are a means to business accomplishing their goal of making money. Satisfied customers are a necessity. That doesn't make the business beholden to irrational complaints. Some of the 1:2 Iron Man's shipped had an issue with being too thin. Was it an isolated production flaw? Why would it be in Sideshow's interest whatsoever to knowingly produce statues that broke if you looked at them funny? How much good would it do them to have a reputation for having sold a $2000 statue that can't stand? The idea that they are willing to sacrifice themselves to save pennies is asinine, and I can say that no company has an obligation to any customer accusing them of that. If they pandered to every similar complaint, they would fold in a matter of days.

My analogy to government controlled industries was accurate, if not a little extreme. How do you think healthcare ended up under the knife the way it is now?

Actually I'm fairly well aware of what I have said over the previous few pages. As to why your attacking averone, well, that's anyone's guess. Did you even read the past posts or just skip to the last couple.

I only read the titles of threads. Then I print them out, cut the page up into separate posts, then throw the pieces up in the air. Which ever one lands closest to me is the one I respond to.

My argument, backed up by fact's, was that even tho the Zangief statue was 'made' by Pop Culture, as their sole world-wide retailer and distributor of their products, from a customer point of view, Sideshow was responsible for overseeing quality control and delivering what the customer paid for.

And that customer point of view is wrong.

Sideshow does not oversee the quality of other company's manufacturing process. They do not have the ability to individually inspect every piece produced by another company before they sell it. From what I can tell, none of these issues could have been avoided via inspection of finished pieces, so they would have had to be so involved with Pop Culture's production that it may as well have been their own.

Yes, you can go on and on about constant improvement. You can also keep the reality of the situation in context and acknowledge that the economy Sideshow is operating in sucks, it has been sucking for some time, and the sucking is progressive. In spite of that, Sideshow has demonstrated major advances in the quality of their work over the past five years. This example doesn't change that at all. Zangief is a straw man.

As for making a business subservient, I don't see it that way. You make it sound as if a customer should just shut-up and be happy to get anything.

You're imagining things.

Re-read his post, then re-read my response. You missed his point and mine. "We the people" represents "The masses" I am talking about. Not a mob rule, but that we have the choice to say what we want to a company when their quality goes down, and also have the choice to buy elsewhere if said company does not listen to "we the people" or the "masses". Your comparison to the riots and so forth is not applicable to my comparison at all.

The common theme was that a billion customers can be as wrong as one. And he's right. Consensus means nothing. And I understand that disgruntled customers try to ruin companies every day, but that doesn't make their complaints valid. More often than not, the kinds of complaints that make up consumer advocacy crusades are worse than specious, and when no one takes them seriously, they have a habit of turning to government to force the company (who is not beholden to them) to fall in line. They have to: the company does not need their business. On the other hand, companies that do take such customers seriously tend to lose money hand over fist.

 

[theguru1]

And that customer point of view is wrong.

Sideshow does not oversee the quality of other company's manufacturing process. They do not have the ability to individually inspect every piece produced by another company before they sell it. From what I can tell, none of these issues could have been avoided via inspection of finished pieces, so they would have had to be so involved with Pop Culture's production that it may as well have been their own.

Yes, you can go on and on about constant improvement. You can also keep the reality of the situation in context and acknowledge that the economy Sideshow is operating in sucks, it has been sucking for some time, and the sucking is progressive. In spite of that, Sideshow has demonstrated major advances in the quality of their work over the past five years. This example doesn't change that at all. Zangief is a straw man.

While Sideshow may not be able to oversee the production of another company, by taking on that company as THE retailer/wholesaler, they would no doubt expect a certain level of quality to be supplied, just as if the item had been made by a factory that Sideshow got to make one of their own items.
How Sideshow manage and oversee that supply contract is their problem, not the customers.
Yes, the economy does suck at the moment, but I would think that's a good reason for caring about quality. If customers are starting to hurt and maybe just saving up all year to get that one item they really wanted, then the last thing they want is to be disappointed. If they are that unimpressed with the quality, after going for a refund, they could just as easily stop buying all together or go with a company that does oversee the quality of the manufacturing process, like say Weta.

While it seems that the Zangief issue has been dealt with and is very unlikely to happen again with that supplier, it is not a "straw man". It is just another example, in a growing list, of were QC had a process error.

The common theme was that a billion customers can be as wrong as one. And he's right. Consensus means nothing. And I understand that disgruntled customers try to ruin companies every day, but that doesn't make their complaints valid.

And yet, at the same time, it doesn't make those complaints wrong either. I'd be very worried about any company that considered returns/refunds as the first and only means by which they judge the quality of the products they sell or services they offer. While any business is welcome to take on or disregard any complaints they receive, one would think that returns/refunds is the last outcome wanted from a sale and as such anything that could reduce it, would be worth considering.

 

[devilof76]

But they don't disregard complaints. They just don't put on a dog and pony show for every one that comes across their desk. There are other ways of addressing a problem than holding the public's hand. I would put more trust in a company that didn't go out of its way to protect its image, and insted simply did what was necessary to correct problems that come to their attention.

If Sideshow determined that the problem with Pop Culture's product was beyond resolution, they would not continue to carry them. It isn't their responsibility to correct it; their responsibility is to take ownership of the problem in the most cost effective manner available within the purview of their position as retailer (return/refund). Running Pop Culture's business for them is not their job, and they shouldn't be expected to act like it is.

 

[theguru1]

But they don't disregard complaints. They just don't put on a dog and pony show for every one that comes across their desk. There are other ways of addressing a problem than holding the public's hand. I would put more trust in a company that didn't go out of its way to protect its image, and insted simply did what was necessary to correct problems that come to their attention.

But have they really been correcting them? Over the past couple of years, I'm sure you have read all the various comments that ppl have been making about how QC has been dropping lately.
Only recently, I remember seeing forum images of the Shades of Mordor - Ringwraith Diorama, where every Ringwraith statue had various scratches/chips and bits broken off. However, none of those bits, were in the packaging. Which meant that each of those statues, looked like that as they were being packed away. Given the contrast of white polystone to black Ringwraith, one would have had to been blind not too see it.
Now sure, the customer was disappointed, had to wait for a replacement, but now all is good. And of course, ppl will say, Sideshow can't check everyone. However, that Dio, still had a QC sticker on the side.... seriously, that actually passed Quality Control, come on, not a chance.
Which brings one back to the other very common saying lately, "yeah, that QC sticker is meaningless." What's the solution, I don't know, maybe don't put QC stickers on everything, only apply them to those that really have been checked for quality control. Or, if all of those have indeed been checked, well, then there are some process/policy issues that need to be worked through, especially when it's not half a mm scratch on the base that's being missed.
I'd also like to note, that I'm not basing this on just some forum posts. I also speak with my local store, who mostly sell collectibles and as of late, they have been holding the same opinion, quality has been dropping and it seems no one cares.

If Sideshow determined that the problem with Pop Culture's product was beyond resolution, they would not continue to carry them. It isn't their responsibility to correct it; their responsibility is to take ownership of the problem in the most cost effective manner available within the purview of their position as retailer (return/refund). Running Pop Culture's business for them is not their job, and they shouldn't be expected to act like it is.

However, like I said, in this case, Sideshow are not just the retailer, they are also the only distributor, making Pop Culture one of their direct suppliers.
Think of it this way, if I was building a house, I would be the customer of the housing company that is building it and the master builder that is overseeing the construction. However, they would have a number of suppliers, supplying materials and services needed to get the house built. Now, lets say the plumber made a mistake and used some cheap (thin) pipes and they burst. The master builder didn't make those pipes, even the plumber didn't, but as suppliers to the housing company, wouldn't you hold them and the master builder responsible for sorting it all out. Not just fixing (replacing) the busted pipes, but for making sure no other pipes in the rest of your house are low quality or that the plumber they hired isn't doing a crappy job.
I know as said house owner, I wouldn't care what problems the builder was having with their suppliers, I'd just want them to fix it and make sure it doesn't happen again. I would fully expect the builder to take full responsibility for that lack of quality control, wouldn't you?
And if you would, why is the case between Sideshow and its suppliers any different?

 

[Skiman]

Lower ES to 50 on all products and you can have the little elf check each of them for quality on the assemble belt and then we can complain about not getting the piece.

 

[geto10]

That looks very fragile!

 

[devilof76]

However, like I said, in this case, Sideshow are not just the retailer, they are also the only distributor, making Pop Culture one of their direct suppliers.
Think of it this way, if I was building a house, I would be the customer of the housing company that is building it and the master builder that is overseeing the construction. However, they would have a number of suppliers, supplying materials and services needed to get the house built. Now, lets say the plumber made a mistake and used some cheap (thin) pipes and they burst. The master builder didn't make those pipes, even the plumber didn't, but as suppliers to the housing company, wouldn't you hold them and the master builder responsible for sorting it all out. Not just fixing (replacing) the busted pipes, but for making sure no other pipes in the rest of your house are low quality or that the plumber they hired isn't doing a crappy job.
I know as said house owner, I wouldn't care what problems the builder was having with their suppliers, I'd just want them to fix it and make sure it doesn't happen again. I would fully expect the builder to take full responsibility for that lack of quality control, wouldn't you?
And if you would, why is the case between Sideshow and its suppliers any different?

Your analogy is off. Sideshow is more like the real estate agent. They sell the house; they don't build it. If the builder didn't make a good house, the realtor will have trouble selling it, and if the trouble is persistent, they will stop making the effort to sell the builder's houses for them.

 

[theguru1]

Your analogy is off. Sideshow is more like the real estate agent. They sell the house; they don't build it. If the builder didn't make a good house, the realtor will have trouble selling it, and if the trouble is persistent, they will stop making the effort to sell the builder's houses for them.

I'm not so sure. In a Sideshow case, the real estate agent would be some third party ebay seller, that has come across a number of houses (statues) and is looking to flog them off. Just like the real estate agent wasn't involved in the building of the house, had no contract agreements and no control over who and how it was build, niether does the ebay seller.
Sideshow on the other hand do have direct contact agreements, as they are standing up to the world and saying we sell this item, you can't buy it anywhere else but through us, because we have legal contracts and agreements in place with this supplier to make the products. As such, it is in Sideshows very best interest, that what is produced and delivered to them for sale, are of an acceptable quality.

 

[thenammagazine]

Has Sideshow's QC been slipping lately? Or has the overall douchyness of whining, chicken____ complaints increased? For as long as I've been buying from Sideshow, as with every single business on the planet, there've been QC issues, whether it be lazy eyes, poor paint apps, botched likenesses, etc. That hasn't increased. What I've noticed has, is the overall whining and _____ing. The bitter irony which makes it all the more retarded is I'm willing to bet that while there's been an increase of tittybaby ranting here, Sideshow's customer service emails haven't increased in volume, nor have sales slacked off.

 

[devilof76]

As such, it is in Sideshows very best interest, that what is produced and delivered to them for sale, are of an acceptable quality.

It's far more in Pop Culture's interest for the product to succeed than it is Sideshow's. I would bet Sideshow is far more than ready to take the hit should the relationship fail. I doubt it would be as easy to weather for Pop Culture (not that it's even been remotely established that the aggregate quality of Pop Culture's work is poor quality; all I've seen here, as well as the Iron Man 1:2 thread is a lot of 'if SOME, then ALL' reasoning that has as much logical validity as a Lewis Carroll poem).

I don't know where you get off thinking Sideshow has some special obligation because they're the exclusive distributor. Your ebay seller analogy falls just as flat as your contractor analogy. The only reason I can see that you believe they do is because you want them to. Why you do, I don't know. Or care. This conversation is dumb.

 

[theguru1]

I don't know where you get off thinking Sideshow has some special obligation because they're the exclusive distributor. Your ebay seller analogy falls just as flat as your contractor analogy. The only reason I can see that you believe they do is because you want them to. Why you do, I don't know. Or care. This conversation is dumb.

It's not some special obligation, it would be standard business practice for any company to manage and oversee the quality of products/services that direct suppliers/contractor's deliver. Be it the plumber/materials used, the milk producer that supply's a food company, or the tyres used on a jet plane, or millions of other examples.
As such, the ebay seller and contractor analogy fits just fine, so maybe it's not the conversation that's dumb.

As for why, that's easy, I want quality products, I want the next Disney PF to be just as good as the first. If all Sideshow made was chocolate bars, then I wouldn't care, plenty of other companies make them, so I'd just take my business else where. But Sideshow make licensed collectibles, so if it's something that I and others really want, that only Sideshow make due to the license, it would be very nice if the quality equals what has and can be produced before.

But if your more then happy to accept whatever any company thinks is good enough or that you deserve, then great for you.

 

[averone]

I'm not much of one for educating people on the words they have said. If you don't know what you said, you have bigger problems than anything I can fix.

However, how many times have you said something like this:



And for the record, what fool would buy Sideshow as an investment? Apparently one who considers stamps to be in the same class as gold.

Thats funny you say that, I have more collectibles than this hobby you know!
Yes, I have stamps that are worth much more than my statues! And yes, they are worth alot more than gold even today!

Yes if Sideshow screws me or anyone I care about, they will hear from me. For the most part I have been very happy with their service.
As far as sideshow, they are not a charity so if I want them to make more incredible statues for my collection, I dont mind them trying to make a buck. As I said before, if you want quality and want these to be solid you have to pay for it!
Some of us....
just dont want to pay extra with this economy. But those who have the extra $$$, dont mind getting a better quality item if it costs more.

 

[devilof76]

averone, I didn't read your post right. Sorry if I was a jerk.

It's not some special obligation, it would be standard business practice for any company to manage and oversee the quality of products/services that direct suppliers/contractor's deliver. Be it the plumber/materials used, the milk producer that supply's a food company, or the tyres used on a jet plane, or millions of other examples.
As such, the ebay seller and contractor analogy fits just fine, so maybe it's not the conversation that's dumb.

As for why, that's easy, I want quality products, I want the next Disney PF to be just as good as the first. If all Sideshow made was chocolate bars, then I wouldn't care, plenty of other companies make them, so I'd just take my business else where. But Sideshow make licensed collectibles, so if it's something that I and others really want, that only Sideshow make due to the license, it would be very nice if the quality equals what has and can be produced before.

But if your more then happy to accept whatever any company thinks is good enough or that you deserve, then great for you.

If you don't equivocate like there's no tomorrow.

You also have a thing for false alternatives. I think I'm done here.

 

[averone]

averone, I didn't read your post right. Sorry if I was a jerk.



If you don't equivocate like there's no tomorrow.

You also have a thing for false alternatives. I think I'm done here.

No harm

You mean good. I appreciate your feedback!