Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (June 30th, 2023)

[jye4ever]

Oh, one thing I forgot to highlight was in the "opening", that little fight on the motorcycle was a particular highlight for me. I love that kind of stuff. Really wanted more of that. I was hoping the train sequence would have a much more complicated and fun climax but it was mostly standard.

I thought the bombers bombing the bridge while the train cannon was on automatic fire was a pretty cool ending to the train fight.

 

[PizzaCake]

Finally got a chance to see it, and as a lifelong Indy fan I was surprised how much I liked it! Actually find some of the negative reactions out there a bit extreme, but to each their own. I thank them for the lowered expectations I went in with!

Having watched them all again leading up to this, KotCS continues to come across as a total misfire, and I think comparatively this one stands as an enjoyable, fitting Indy send-off. Mangold captured the Indiana Jones “energy” better than Spielberg himself did with his 4th attempt.

My ranking:
RotLA TLC ToD DoD KotCS

And, I know it’s fun to dunk on the fact that Indiana Jones is old…but Harrison Ford is old! Thematically, I felt that they handled his age and the toll his career had taken on him and his relationships well. They aren’t trying to hide his age, they’re embracing it. It informed the story, character arc, and action beats. Some of it fell flat, but a lot worked well. So, either you have a franchise where the character repeatedly passes from fresh actor to fresh actor like a Bond, forever in some state of reboot, or tie the character to the actor who embodied the role masterfully for a generation, and have the character age alongside the actor, warts and all. For fans not down for the latter, this one was never going to work for them. Not sure why they’d give it a passing concern to begin with if that was the hurdle it needed to overcome for them. Personally, I’m glad Harrison was my Indy over the decades.

I wonder if people would be less bothered by the mere existence of these later entries if they’d come out with a couple more adventures in between at a more measured, Bond-like cadence to loosen the nostalgia grip people have on the OG’s. While “just stop at the classic trio” is a nice sentiment, the character was literally designed as a resurrection of silly adventure serials. They just so happened to coincide with the best blockbuster filmmaker of-all-time’s golden years and a perfect fit between star and character. As he himself has proven, Spielberg can’t even make a blockbuster like it anymore. That’s what makes them special movies, but to me, special doesn’t mean sacred. There’s room for solid, non-masterpiece outings in a franchise like this. My blu-rays haven’t disappeared. My nostalgia is untarnished.

Even more excited for the Hot Toys figure to add to my growing Indy collection!

 

[Felinx]

I'd put Belloq in my top 3 over Mola Ram. Ram always seemed more of a Scooby Doo villain to me - a bit too over the top. Meanwhile Belloq was just nice and slimy. And while he didn't have the stomach for dishing out violence, he had no problem looking the other way if it served his purposes.

Belloq is a bit underappreciated as a villain. His frustrated "Jones!" venting, his smug chat in the bar with Indy, and his horror at Marion being tossed into the Well of Souls - he had a lot of nuance, the reverse of Mola Ram. Also the fact that he was French, in a dig at the collaborator Vichy French, was a nice touch.

And while I agree on the issues with Mola Ram, he did scare the **** out of me back in the day, and he certainly has the coolest look of any Indy villain. I mean compare him to Donovan in his powder blue suit or safari suit.

And I always thought it was a bit lazy and even slightly inappropriate in TLC having Vogel in the black SS uniform (though I do love the desert version because it's a bit unique) as Toht did it far more sinister with just a pinstripe, glasses and jacket, and I also thought overall TLC got a bit "too" real-world Nazi for comfort (Hitler's cameo, and rally scene) given TLC is mostly just a "Daaad!" romp.

 

[Felinx]

I thought the bombers bombing the bridge while the train cannon was on automatic fire was a pretty cool ending to the train fight.

There is no way in hell that train would be running with its bright lights on (for the planes to zero in on) and those British paratroopers seemed to land, somehow catch up to the train, and capture it in all of two minutes.

I was also confused as to why the British paratroopers wouldn't have tried to capture Indy and his buddy walking out of the river just below the bridge as they had clearly just escaped from the Nazi train wreck - instead they're too busy waving the union jack flag.

 

[Captain Clown]

While it definitely has modern Lucasfilm’s fingerprints on it, I had a good time watching this. I’d say it was a good ending point for Indy. The first half drags, but the third act ramps up and gets pretty bonkers.

I’m glad I lowered my expectations going into this - It was surprisingly better than I’d expected. My dad and I are hoping to catch it a second time before it leaves theaters.

My biggest gripe was the over-reliance on CGI. I swear there were scenes with the actors just standing around in mundane locations that didn’t seem “right”, which was annoying. Did they use the Volume for this?

 

[jye4ever]

Finally got a chance to see it, and as a lifelong Indy fan I was surprised how much I liked it! Actually find some of the negative reactions out there a bit extreme, but to each their own. I thank them for the lowered expectations I went in with!

Having watched them all again leading up to this, KotCS continues to come across as a total misfire, and I think comparatively this one stands as an enjoyable, fitting Indy send-off. Mangold captured the Indiana Jones “energy” better than Spielberg himself did with his 4th attempt.

My ranking:
RotLA TLC ToD DoD KotCS

And, I know it’s fun to dunk on the fact that Indiana Jones is old…but Harrison Ford is old! Thematically, I felt that they handled his age and the toll his career had taken on him and his relationships well. They aren’t trying to hide his age, they’re embracing it. It informed the story, character arc, and action beats. Some of it fell flat, but a lot worked well. So, either you have a franchise where the character repeatedly passes from fresh actor to fresh actor like a Bond, forever in some state of reboot, or tie the character to the actor who embodied the role masterfully for a generation, and have the character age alongside the actor, warts and all. For fans not down for the latter, this one was never going to work for them. Not sure why they’d give it a passing concern to begin with if that was the hurdle it needed to overcome for them. Personally, I’m glad Harrison was my Indy over the decades.

I wonder if people would be less bothered by the mere existence of these later entries if they’d come out with a couple more adventures in between at a more measured, Bond-like cadence to loosen the nostalgia grip people have on the OG’s. While “just stop at the classic trio” is a nice sentiment, the character was literally designed as a resurrection of silly adventure serials. They just so happened to coincide with the best blockbuster filmmaker of-all-time’s golden years and a perfect fit between star and character. As he himself has proven, Spielberg can’t even make a blockbuster like it anymore. That’s what makes them special movies, but to me, special doesn’t mean sacred. There’s room for solid, non-masterpiece outings in a franchise like this. My blu-rays haven’t disappeared. My nostalgia is untarnished.

Even more excited for the Hot Toys figure to add to my growing Indy collection!

Epic post, great read!

 

[PizzaCake]

Epic post, great read!

Thanks! I…didn’t realize how long that was until I saw it quoted out in your message. So sorry lol.

 

[Khev]

OMG OMG OMG!

Belloq:

“Who knows in a thousand years even you may be worth something.”

Now think of where Han went in DOD.

And that

Spoiler

someone else considered 2,000 year old Indy* to be worth saving, just like Belloq theorized...

*referring to the time period he was in, not Ford's age, lol

 

[Khev]

My biggest gripe was the over-reliance on CGI. I swear there were scenes with the actors just standing around in mundane locations that didn’t seem “right”, which was annoying. Did they use the Volume for this?

I also noticed that, even to the point that I began to question whether they added some digital touch-ups to old Ford for a number of scenes in order to better blend him with his prologue self? I mean I seriously doubt that as it would be just a weird and unnecessary expense but I definitely felt like there was something "off" here and there even when it was really him.

 

[davejames]

Every line and frame of Raiders is perfect. It's definitely one of the most rewatchable movies ever up there with T2 for me.

I'd actually say the same about TLC, although obviously it's a very different tone from Raiders and doesn't have the same gritty edge that people prefer.

TOD doesn't work quite as well storywise, but it's at least got the same dark and edgy Indy from the first movie, before he got softened up and turned into more of a lovable, reluctant hero. So I still give it high marks for that.

 

[Khev]

Something that I hadn't ever considered until hearing Indy mention it in DOD was the notion that drinking the blood of Kali and getting tortured via voodoo would have lasting, possibly even permanent effects on his mind and body that he was never fully able to shake. Yes I know it was a "callback" but with him being so quick to bring those events up while struggling with his climb I couldn't help but consider that as a valid possibility which I thought was cool. It's funny that he brought those things up and *not* surviving a literal nuclear explosion, lol. Mangold must really hate KOTCS.

 

[The Buffinator]

Belloq is a bit underappreciated as a villain. His frustrated "Jones!" venting, his smug chat in the bar with Indy, and his horror at Marion being tossed into the Well of Souls - he had a lot of nuance, the reverse of Mola Ram. Also the fact that he was French, in a dig at the collaborator Vichy French, was a nice touch.

And while I agree on the issues with Mola Ram, he did scare the **** out of me back in the day, and he certainly has the coolest look of any Indy villain. I mean compare him to Donovan in his powder blue suit or safari suit.

And I always thought it was a bit lazy and even slightly inappropriate in TLC having Vogel in the black SS uniform (though I do love the desert version because it's a bit unique) as Toht did it far more sinister with just a pinstripe, glasses and jacket, and I also thought overall TLC got a bit "too" real-world Nazi for comfort (Hitler's cameo, and rally scene) given TLC is mostly just a "Daaad!" romp.

Yes, he did have a great look and I've no doubt that if I'd been younger when I saw ToD he likely would have scared the **** out of me as well. He's still #4 on my list. Donovan, Vogel and whoever the villain was in KOTCS don't even make the list. I'd put the kid Maharaja from ToD ahead of them lol. I guess technically the Crystall Skull villain was Cate Blanchett's character, although I think a compelling argument could be made for Mutt.

 

[Felinx]

Something that I hadn't ever considered until hearing Indy mention it in DOD was the notion that drinking the blood of Kali and getting tortured via voodoo would have lasting, possibly even permanent effects on his mind and body that he was never fully able to shake. Yes I know it was a "callback" but with him being so quick to bring those events up while struggling with his climb I couldn't help but consider that as a valid possibility which I thought was cool. It's funny that he brought those things up and *not* surviving a literal nuclear explosion, lol. Mangold must really hate KOTCS.

Erectile dysfunction from the voodoo doll, diabetes from drinking blood of Kali, gum disease from biting German mechanic.... the list is long for old Indy.

And yeah, not a lot of KOTCS callbacks in DoD.

 

[The Buffinator]

Erectile dysfunction from the voodoo doll, diabetes from drinking blood of Kali, gum disease from biting German mechanic.... the list is long for old Indy.

And yeah, not a lot of KOTCS callbacks in DoD.

Well, at the end Marion did say he had nothing in his fridge. Does that count?

 

[Felinx]

Yes, he did have a great look and I've no doubt that if I'd been younger when I saw ToD he likely would have scared the **** out of me as well. He's still #4 on my list. Donovan, Vogel and whoever the villain was in KOTCS don't even make the list. I guess technically the Crystall Skull villain was Cate Blanchett's character, although I think a compelling argument could be made for Mutt.

Last known images of Mutt before he shipped out to the 'Nam...

 

[ZE_501]

Check this stunt mask out for nightmare fuel!
View attachment 647967

Looks like Tom Cruise. Pass.

 

[The Buffinator]

Looks like Tom Cruise. Pass.

Yes, my first thought was a Mission Impossible mask as well...

 

[PizzaCake]

While it definitely has modern Lucasfilm’s fingerprints on it, I had a good time watching this. I’d say it was a good ending point for Indy. The first half drags, but the third act ramps up and gets pretty bonkers.

I’m glad I lowered my expectations going into this - It was surprisingly better than I’d expected. My dad and I are hoping to catch it a second time before it leaves theaters.

My biggest gripe was the over-reliance on CGI. I swear there were scenes with the actors just standing around in mundane locations that didn’t seem “right”, which was annoying. Did they use the Volume for this?

Yeah, too much CGI. Definitely one of the big strikes against it. Against most modern blockbusters, unfortunately, but especially disappointing for Indy.

I know it’s cliche to wax poetic about matte paintings and gigantic practical sets and animatronics and such, but…there really was just something to them. After Crystal Skull, who knows what the others would have looked like had full-on CGI been around when Spielberg did them.

I think even more than the look of the effects itself, it was maybe the inherent creative restrictions that practical effects placed on production that helped most? It reigned in the scope of the vision. Imaginations start running away on something and you had old-ILM tell you it was impossible and how much you’d be able to fit in. Now anything’s possible and it’s a matter of forcing these creatives to make big cuts.

 

[jye4ever]

Wait…

JAWS went to the cinema tonight didn’t he!

He should be home soon!

When does a-dev see it!

Does Ireland even have center cinema seats!

 

[Khev]

And I think JAWS said he was seeing it on Tuesday.

Man has it already been 8 years since someone dumped beer on a-dev while he strained to watch Jurassic World in the front row far left side of the auditorium??