Indiana Jones & The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Buttmunch]

Also, why did the Soviets need to break into the warehouse with Indy? They take the alien body but do absolutely nothing with it.

I think that was the same alien body we see in the south American tent when we see Spalko again. I think it was just to confirm they had crystal skeletons. Otherwise, yeah, not exactly the best idea for an opening scene - it went nowhere

 

[Entropy]

I think that was the same alien body we see in the south American tent when we see Spalko again. I think it was just to confirm they had crystal skeletons. Otherwise, yeah, not exactly the best idea for an opening scene - it went nowhere

This is what's wrong with the film. Not the aliens, not Harrison's age, but the clumsy, illogical Frankensteined together plot.

 

[Giant Chicken]

I just got home and I am still in shock. I love Indiana Jone so much and I can't believe the absolute crap that I just watched. I went in to the movie knowing many people didn't like it so my expectations were not very high. The film had a few classic Indy moments but overall it was terrible.

-Prarie dogs
-Refrigerator
-Snake Rope
-Tarzan
-Monkeys
-Driving the car off a cliff onto a tree
-The ants

These are just a few of the idiotic elements to the movie. There were other things that bothered me but in comparison they were not that bad.

I know a lot of people are saying just enjoy the film for what it is but NO. I love Indy and why should I have to enjoy this crap just because they are dishing it out to me. I hope that it does terrible at the box office (which it probably wont) just to prove a point. We should not have to tolerate crap like Spider-Man 3 and Indy 4 just because we are suppose to like them. As far as I am concerned Indy 4 never happened and I will gladly let the series end with Harrison and Sean riding off into the sunset.

I am really glad for those who truely enjoyed the film. There were many people in the audience tonight who laughed through out and clapped at the end. There were also several people who were making "what the hell" coments through out and who booed at the end.

 

[adambadadam]

I think people very much "get it" about the aliens influencing an ancient civilzation, as you said it's an old idea that has been explored in many stories before. I think it's the poor execution of this idea, the muddy, exposition heavy script and the goofy bits (prairie dogs, monkies, crotch shots, etc) that are turning people off.

I haven't read a good explanation of what exactly is going on with the aliens. Anyone who feels they understand care to enlighten? Apparently the ship crashes/lands in Peru thousands of years ago. The aliens become skeletons somehow. Is this through death, their flesh decaying or are the 13 each a separate part of a single alien? Then somehow one of the 13 skeletons loses it's head so they are unable to return to their dimension. Somewhere along the way the ship is turned into a temple by those who received the knowledge of irrigation and such from the aliens. Thousands of years later Spalko returns the skull, it magically flies out of her hands and reanimates the skeleton, the 13 merge into 1 now living alien and bestow on her all their knowledge which she asks for. Her mind can't handle this, her head explodes and she breaks apart and is sucked into the other dimension. With the return of the skull, the alien(s) can now return to the alternate dimension and they blink away.

So lets see...it becomes so much clearer when the Ark blows it's lid skyward and everyone floats up into the sky, or the the Shikara Stones burn with "fortune and glory" and the Last Cup of Christ keeps you young as long as you stay within the seal. All these make so much more sense. I think alot of people miss the point. If this makes such a bad idea as a mythlogical MacGuffin, then what would you suggest in it's place???

 

[Spanks]

saw it last night and i felt rather sad
not because of the so called idiotic moments in the film i thought they were fine . my young son loved it btw
It was because indy showed me how much I had aged !!!! and the the cynical world we now live in where everything is expected to be torn to shreds. The film brought home to me the fact that indy has aged and was a little bit tired and so am i . Everyones expectations is now at such gigantic portions there is no way any indy movie would satisfy the majority of people. I will go again and enjoy indy being back on screen and enjoy it for what it is . A couple of hours of escapism

PS To the couple that sat next to me sucking each others face off why not just do it at home its free and you dont have to pay 15quid for the privalage :PPPP

 

[KrisSolo]

saw it last night and i felt rather sad
not because of the so called idiotic moments in the film i thought they were fine . my young son loved it btw
It was because indy showed me how much I had aged !!!! and the the cynical world we now live in where everything is expected to be torn to shreds. The film brought home to me the fact that indy has aged and was a little bit tired and so am i . Everyones expectations is now at such gigantic portions there is no way any indy movie would satisfy the majority of people. I will go again and enjoy indy being back on screen and enjoy it for what it is . A couple of hours of escapism

PS To the couple that sat next to me sucking each others face off why not just do it at home its free and you dont have to pay 15quid for the privalage :PPPP

I applaud and agree Seeing it again Wednesday - can't wait!

As for the couple... must hold my hand up to doing the same in the past. Sometimes there's nowhere to go to... well, you know...

 

[Entropy]

So lets see...it becomes so much clearer when the Ark blows it's lid skyward and everyone floats up into the sky, or the the Shikara Stones burn with "fortune and glory" and the Last Cup of Christ keeps you young as long as you stay within the seal. All these make so much more sense. I think alot of people miss the point. If this makes such a bad idea as a mythlogical MacGuffin, then what would you suggest in it's place???

They make more sense, if you buy into the possibility of a God putting magical properties into objects, because the artifacts are given a tangible history of how they came to be where Indy finds them as well as imbued with said power of God.

Major Eaton: What is this? Coming out of here.
Indiana: Lightening. Fire. Power of God or something.
Major Eaton: I'm beginning to understand Hitler's interest in this.
Brody: Oh, yes. The Bible speaks of the Ark leveling mountains and laying waste to entire regions. An army which carries the Ark before it is invincible.

Mola Ram: There were five stones in the beginning. Over the centuries they were dispersed by wars, sold off by thieves like you...
Indiana Jones: When they lost this rock their fields and animals died. They also said their children were taken from them.
[Mola Ram further establishes the stones mystical control of life by tearing out a still living heart thanks to the stones]

Grail Knight: But, beware: the Grail cannot pass beyond the Great Seal, for that is the boundry, and the price, of immortality.
[yes this is a weak caveat to the power of God, and merely a plot device to allow Indy to both drink from the cup and not live forever but also to save his father and bring about the destruction of the temple in the finale]

The stuff with the aliens was just too vague. Were they living were they dead? Were there many of them or just one? How did they come to be trapped skeletons with one missing a skull? The only thing firmly established is that "whoever returns the skull will gain great power" which turns out to be alien knowledge. The aliens, though living creatures like humans with physical bodies and mortality, which they establish via the cadaver, are much more based in science rather than religion. It's just left unexplained for the audience to accept as the skull having the power after death of magnetism, psychic communication, and reanimation of the skeleton body minus flesh and organs just because its alien.


I didn't expect a return to Raiders standards, my expectations were not so high they could never be satisfied, I just expected a story that was internally consistent and well written and didn't quite get one.

 

[The Mike]

Alright, time to throw my two pennies into this mix. I enjoyed the film. I didn't love it, but enjoyed it. My wife and I both agreed 3 out of 5 stars although she was waaaay more upset about what we didn't like about it then I was.

I didn't mind Indy's age, I thought it worked. I thought Shia was great and didn't mind the 50s greaser thing because it worked. The humor was great. Didn't mind the monkeys or gophers, didn't even mind the Indy hiding from a bomb in a lead lined fridge. What ruined it for me was the Aliens aspect. Looking at the film, the Crystal skull thing was cool but I thought could have been done with only slight Alien connections or even remove that completely, the Russians really didn't bother me at all but that final climatic scene where the Aliens skeletons join into one and a ship appears that goes away taking Cate's character with them.....UGH. I half expected the ship to be the Millennium Falcon taking off. If you removed the whole Alien scene at the end, would have been better IMHO if the temple collapsed onto itself killing the Russians and allowing Indy to escape and being "lost" to the world once the waters came onto it then that and even remove the Alien aspect in Area 51, would have preferred if just the skull was retreived from there or one of them and then they had to find another to get into the temple or something along those lines.

I get that Indy is campy, that is one of the reasons I love it but Aliens just ruin it for me, they really did. Take out the Aliens, a solid 4 because I thought it recaptured the feel and fun of Indy and the character chemistry was excellent. Its those damned "Saucermen from Mars" that really sucked it up for me.

 

[icruise]

The more I think about it, the more I think there were two problems with the movie (which I still liked and am going to see again today). First were the performances. This really surprised me. Both Karen Allen and Harrison Ford seemed off in several scenes (well, Karen was off in all her scenes, Harrison was off in his scenes with her and with Kate). It was like I was watching the B-roll footage that should have ended up on the cutting room floor. The timing and intonation of the lines, the facial expressions all seemed off somehow. Am I the only one who felt that?

The more serious problem is the story issues that Entropy Chicken has brought up. I think the whole "Chariots of the Gods" thing could have been *amazing*. I've always thought that it's a fascinating (if totally crackpot) theory. But I just don't think they explained any aspect of the story very well. I'm going to be paying particular attention to plot points when I see it again, so maybe the information is there and I didn't absorb it all the first time. And yes, they showed too much at the end. There should have been some mystery left.

 

[DarthNeil]

Alright, time to throw my two pennies into this mix. I enjoyed the film. I didn't love it, but enjoyed it. My wife and I both agreed 3 out of 5 stars although she was waaaay more upset about what we didn't like about it then I was.

I didn't mind Indy's age, I thought it worked. I thought Shia was great and didn't mind the 50s greaser thing because it worked. The humor was great. Didn't mind the monkeys or gophers, didn't even mind the Indy hiding from a bomb in a lead lined fridge. What ruined it for me was the Aliens aspect. Looking at the film, the Crystal skull thing was cool but I thought could have been done with only slight Alien connections or even remove that completely, the Russians really didn't bother me at all but that final climatic scene where the Aliens skeletons join into one and a ship appears that goes away taking Cate's character with them.....UGH. I half expected the ship to be the Millennium Falcon taking off. If you removed the whole Alien scene at the end, would have been better IMHO if the temple collapsed onto itself killing the Russians and allowing Indy to escape and being "lost" to the world once the waters came onto it then that and even remove the Alien aspect in Area 51, would have preferred if just the skull was retreived from there or one of them and then they had to find another to get into the temple or something along those lines.

I get that Indy is campy, that is one of the reasons I love it but Aliens just ruin it for me, they really did. Take out the Aliens, a solid 4 because I thought it recaptured the feel and fun of Indy and the character chemistry was excellent. Its those damned "Saucermen from Mars" that really sucked it up for me.

I respect your opinion... I, when asked by a colleague yesterday, gave the movie 3.5 out of 5 so we're not far off--- however, even though the ending with aliens was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over the top, I enjoyed the fact that Spielberg was no longer JUST doing an homage to the 1930's action serials, but in addition he was capturing the "B" movie magic of the 50's with the aliens (representing the Red Menace) and both of these styles were packaged into modern storytelling.

If the CGI of the jungle chase was toned down (yes, monkeys and swinging) then I could easily bump my estimate to a 4 out of 5.

I enjoyed it... Hopefully we might get a fifth in a year or two (before Harrison really does have to hang it up-- although he could play Connery's part to Shia's Indy a la Crusade in a few more)-- maybe the Lost City of Atlantis?

 

[The Mike]

The monkeys and swinging for some reason to me was highlighted like "Oh here he is practicing for when he gets his whip...." The feel of passing the torch was huge showing that Mutt was amazingly intelligent to the point where he learned a lot on his own without school, through books all self-taught. That's why I enjoyed the scene at the end where Indy takes the hat from him, it was a not yet moment that I enjoyed. I get the 50s B Movie magic aspect I just didn't appreciate it seeing it on-screen with Indiana Jones is all. Had that been Henry Jones III's first adventure I would have accepted it more I think (BTW, if he takes it on what the hell are they going to call him Indiana as well? I'd be funny to see him say "I'm Indiana Jones" and someone say "I know Indiana Jones, you're not Indiana Jones" to him....kind of a "Hes no Jedi" moment....but anyway) Something about having Harrison there doing broke the reality for me. I DID enjoy it though for what it was a fun Indy adventure and the Alien interference wasn't high enough to snap me out of that just enough to leave a weird taste.

 

[icruise]

(BTW, if he takes it on what the hell are they going to call him Indiana as well? I'd be funny to see him say "I'm Indiana Jones" and someone say "I know Indiana Jones, you're not Indiana Jones" to him....kind of a "Hes no Jedi" moment....but anyway)

It's not like "Indiana" is the name of a superhero that you can pass on to someone else. It's just Henry Jones Jr's nickname. Henry Jones III's nickname is Mutt and I would expect them to call him that.

 

[The Josh]

I went in to the movie knowing many people didn't like it so my expectations were not very high. The film had a few classic Indy moments but overall it was terrible.

Actually, I think its the other way around. There seem to be more people that like it than hate it.

 

[Agent0028]

Here's where my mind was going while reading your posts Giant Chicken. The previous items in the movies were known to man. The Bible fills us in about the Ark, we have legends about the grail, and the history of the Sankara stones was known to Mola Ram. But with the aliens we have almost no knowledge of them, Indy didn't even know they existed until he was in the Amazon, and Irina only had contact with dead ones so she couldn't really gain any knowledge from them. The people who had contact with the aliens weren't around to fill people in about them. So that whole aspect was lost to history. So that's why its not really explained, its not really known. Another way to consider it is imagine the Bible was never written, we would have no way to know about the Grail.

 

[Bardoon]

Here's where my mind was going while reading your posts Giant Chicken. The previous items in the movies were known to man. The Bible fills us in about the Ark, we have legends about the grail, and the history of the Sankara stones was known to Mola Ram. But with the aliens we have almost no knowledge of them, Indy didn't even know they existed until he was in the Amazon, and Irina only had contact with dead ones so she couldn't really gain any knowledge from them. The people who had contact with the aliens weren't around to fill people in about them. So that whole aspect was lost to history. So that's why its not really explained, its not really known. Another way to consider it is imagine the Bible was never written, we would have no way to know about the Grail.

This is around my line of thinking.

The Ark, the Grail and even whatever Hindu mythology have been cemented in human history for CENTURIES. Their purpose and legacy is much more profound to us than ANYTHING...so going after the Holy Grail is a big f'n deal in my opinion. But Crystal Skulls are certainly NOT AS PROFOUND as the Holy Grail.

Crystal Skulls have been around for a long time as well, but they do not have the history and the vast spiritual importance behind them that things like the Ark and the Holy Grail do.

This is why I would've preferred if Indy was after something like Atlantis or something with a better historical (or mythical) foundation in human history. Cause then you know it's a big F'n deal to find it or solve its mystery.

 

[The Mike]

It's not like "Indiana" is the name of a superhero that you can pass on to someone else. It's just Henry Jones Jr's nickname. Henry Jones III's nickname is Mutt and I would expect them to call him that.

Mutt Jones and the Lost City of Atlantis just doens't have the same ring to it....

 

[Bardoon]

Maybe they'll call him "Indiana Jones Jr."?

 

[KrisSolo]

It's all up to interpretation, but the way I saw the end was that the alien skeletons weren't alive as such, they merely acted as a key that opened the portal allowing the alien that zapped Kate through. Having 'lost' the skull the portal remained shut. Ruskie Kate mentioned something along the lines of 'they act as a hive, if one parts missing nothing happens.' Once complete, alien dude could once more pass back into this world, start the engines and be gone. The alien in the wharehouse, as I see it, was part of a salvage mission to find the lost ship and all it's power/knowledge, a mission that obviously failed.

Man, regardless of what people think, this film sure has created many a debate

 

[tomandshell]

I also felt that the merging and appearance was something that was part of the "gift" and only Spalko was seeing it, in her mind or in between dimensions or whatever.

 

[icruise]

Mutt Jones and the Lost City of Atlantis just doens't have the same ring to it....

That's true, but first of all would be "Mutt Williams" unless he decides to change his name. And there's no rule that the person's name has to be in the title (although Lucas apparently likes it that way). Raiders of the Lost Ark was only retroactively changed to "Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark."