Inflames & Headplay ：Metal Boss - BDU Version

[Solidus]

Seriously. EXACTLY. What the man said.



They way you are talking it's like this is the first and only time you've ever heard of anything like this happening. You can't assume I'm ignorant to the fact that Hot Toys and Konami had a problem with this, of course I know about the drama, have always known and am proud that Headplay stuck it to them anyway. Why wouldn't HT and Konami have a problem? it's unlicensed. If Hot Toys was really that concerned they would have shown theirs. Or at least something that made the headplay one look like garbage. but they didn't. And as elvis said, real fans of MGS are gonna buy both anyway, they will snap up all they can thats quality from the genre and this looks to be quality.

It may in fact be ignorant to ignore the importance of these "bootlegs" to our hobby. In which I believe is actually a misused terms since a true bootleg is a knock off reproduction of something. This is not a bootleg, it's an unlicensed unofficial mass produced custom figure. A bootleg is something like the recent Wolverine problem. recasted- remade with cheaper materials and sold as if it were an official product. "Metal Boss" does not even attempt to make it sound like it's an official thing.

You think Warner Brothers wouldn't have a problem with the million and one Inception bootlegs there are on ebay? Or Something like the "Cat Lady" figure?

Without customs and unlicensed figures (I refuse to use the term bootleg from here on in) our collections would be pretty bland. There would be no Blade Runners, Clint Eastwoods or Robert De niros. Licenses/likenesses that are notoriously difficult.

Heaplay has stones for getting this guy out there and I for one promise you that a lot of Metal Gear fans are grateful to see it happen. Soon it will be in my hands and then on in short of a fire Hot Toys can't do anything to take it away from me. And when they release theirs I'll buy that too.

NUFF SAID

Try to justify this in your mind however you want, but it still doesn't make it right. You guys are forgetting the fact that acquiring a license takes time and money. It's not fair that when legit companies like Hot Toys have to request permission to make a figure, and then pay a huge licensing fee. But, then someone unscrupulous like headplay comes along and start to mass market things without anyone's consent. It defeats the whole purpose of following copyright laws. Guys like headplay and Inflames are just setting a bad example for other upcoming 1/6 companies.

As for Hot Toys, they did initially start out as an unlicensed company. They made a few head-sculpts of celebrities, and placed them on nonsense bodies, basically. Their Ed Norton figure had an Army uniform, and their George Lucas one had pink sunglasses and flamboyant jacket. It was really an attempt to showcase their talent to companies that would find interest in them. Hot Toys did it the right way without infringing on licenses, unlike headplay and his questionable business practices.

Also, please don't give me that "real MGS fan" nonsense. Yoji Shinkawa created Snake, and he owns the intellectual rights to that character. It's certainly not fair to him that someone else is ripping off his work, mass manufacturing it, and selling it for profit. Wouldn't a "real fan" (as you so coined the term) want to support the original artist? Tell you what; put this figure to the test. If you ever get the chance, take it to a place where real Metal Gear Solid fans are gathered, such as an autograph session. Then hand the "Metal Boss" box over to Kojima and Shinkawa for them to sign it, and then gauge their reaction.

 

[Unclechopchop]

Just think of it this way. You can pay $150 for an awesome figure right now and probably be pretty happy. ORRR, you can wait an eternity, pay waaaay too much, and get on your high horse and ride off in to the sun.
I think it's awesome that small companies make these moves and try to bring us some cool stuff. Let Hot Toys come out with their insanely awesome figure, but figure this. If it's going to be that epic, what do you even care what some smaller company does?
Variety is what it's all about, and Inflames just gives us a different option instead of bleeding us dry.
I can't believe people get all bent out of shape about this. Face the fact people, Hot Toys charges waaaaay too much, and if you keep backing them on small stuff like this, they feel justified by ripping us off. Yes, I like Hot Toys products, but you know what, they shouldn't cost as much as they do so in all reality they are missing out on a lot of potential customers because of their greed. Charge a reasonable amount, and then people will keep coming.

 

[Solidus]

Just think of it this way. You can pay $150 for an awesome figure right now and probably be pretty happy. ORRR, you can wait an eternity, pay waaaay too much, and get on your high horse and ride off in to the sun.
I think it's awesome that small companies make these moves and try to bring us some cool stuff. Let Hot Toys come out with their insanely awesome figure, but figure this. If it's going to be that epic, what do you even care what some smaller company does?
Variety is what it's all about, and Inflames just gives us a different option instead of bleeding us dry.
I can't believe people get all bent out of shape about this. Face the fact people, Hot Toys charges waaaaay too much, and if you keep backing them on small stuff like this, they feel justified by ripping us off. Yes, I like Hot Toys products, but you know what, they shouldn't cost as much as they do so in all reality they are missing out on a lot of potential customers because of their greed. Charge a reasonable amount, and then people will keep coming.

Yeah, Hot Toys figures did increase in price over the last few years. But, for the most part, their regular figures are still priced pretty reasonable at $160 or less at many online vendors. It's really until you start getting into the limited stuff in DX line, that things become really expensive.

 

[K.bowen]

everyone has the right to say their own opinion, but the thread isnt about arguing weather they shuld have released the figure or not, its called "inflames & headplay:Metal Boss-BDU Version" not " lets all argue about supporting the true toy companies like real mgs fans' cant we all just talk about the figure instead of this nonsense. has anyone actually recieved theirs yet?

 

[Unclechopchop]

I just can't get it out of my head how all of these people defend Hot Toys to the hilt, saying that they don't profit very much making these figures, while the president of Hot Toys shows off his multi million dollar house. Sure, I understand people make money, but I never seen so many people make excuses for a company that doesn't need any.
Also, one thing that really burns me is how Hot Toys actually makes some figures that break down after some time, therefore leaving somebody with a pile of dissintigrated junk, that they once payed a ton for at one time. At least they could do something about their quality control, but no, they just laugh it up all the way to the bank.
Look, don't get it twisted, I love their stuff as much as the next guy, but c'mon people. I know for a fact (yes fact!) that Hot Toys pays no more than $10 bucks a figure in production. And yes I know that I will constantly hear about license cost. But in all reality, that's just a drop in the bucket after they've reaped all of the rewards of overcharging. They can release these figures for $120 base, and still turn a fat profit.
It also pisses me off that they overcharge, because it just makes these other companies feel as if they can do the same for one reason. That is why I still like Soldier Story and DiD.
Oh well, my two cents are spent, and we all know we gotta save all of our pennies for these awesome Hot Toys figures.
Get over fanboys, this figure is awesome, so who cares who profits as long as it makes you happy.

 

[Unclechopchop]

everyone has the right to say their own opinion, but the thread isnt about arguing weather they shuld have released the figure or not, its called "inflames & headplay:Metal Boss-BDU Version" not " lets all argue about supporting the true toy companies like real mgs fans' cant we all just talk about the figure instead of this nonsense. has anyone actually recieved theirs yet?

Point taken, and I agree. I just want one even more now.

 

[K.bowen]

well said =) yep ht toys are expensive especially in au, i only have about 5 of them, the other 20 or so figures i own are bootlegs. and who knows hopefully they start off the same way art figures have, and they might become an actual company who will start buying licenses. and make even more great figures just like how hot toys started.maybe the cease and desist was the sneaking suit one they released pics of? it might explain why this is the only one we are getting

 

[karamazov80]

As for Hot Toys, they did initially start out as an unlicensed company. They made a few head-sculpts of celebrities, and placed them on nonsense bodies, basically. . .Hot Toys did it the right way without infringing on licenses, unlike headplay and his questionable business practices.

The fact that the people who created and own the character aren't getting a cut is the part that sometimes bugs me about this sort of thing. It's easier for me to justify, say, an unlicensed Jack Torrence from Shining figure, because not only doesn't HT, Sideshow, or any other 1/6th company have the license, but none of them likely ever will have the license due to the Kubrick estate's preferences on these things. But Hot Toys currently holds the Metal Gear license, and some folks will no doubt buy this figure in lieu of the legit one (like Unclechop who says he would rather buy a cheaper unlicensed figure than an official HT one). What that means is that folks are profiting from a license that could and will be made through HT, and if I were the creator of Metal Gear, that would piss me off. Those who create and own have a right to make money off of their creations.

Having said that:

https://limitededitiontoys.com/Matrix.aspx

This was done the right way? C'mon now. They were as bad as anyone with this stuff back in the day, so there is some level of hypocrisy at work if HT was behind the legal issues here. And they still use known actor likenesses for the Truetypes (presumably) without paying for them. That's really no different than any other form of trademark infringement in my view. HT is not innocent here.

Just think of it this way. You can pay $150 for an awesome figure right now and probably be pretty happy. ORRR, you can wait an eternity, pay waaaay too much, and get on your high horse and ride off in to the sun.

But isn't this figure going for $140-160? For a mass produced, unlicensed figure, that seems like highway robbery to me. HT will probably cost $20 more max, and come with extraordinary paint apps, better quality outfit and accessories, official license (that they have to pay for, and that contributes to their prices of course), etc.

Also, one thing that really burns me is how Hot Toys actually makes some figures that break down after some time, therefore leaving somebody with a pile of dissintigrated junk, that they once payed a ton for at one time. At least they could do something about their quality control, but no, they just laugh it up all the way to the bank.
Look, don't get it twisted, I love their stuff as much as the next guy, but c'mon people. I know for a fact (yes fact!) that Hot Toys pays no more than $10 bucks a figure in production.

But they have improved QC by producing better bodies, using more durable materials (i.e., less rubber), etc. And as for breaking down, HT experiences more of it because they are more innovative (trying different things) and produce a lot more than others do, so they have more chances to fail. I got a bad batch DX02, so I have experienced this first hand, but your post is a gross over-generalization. As for the $10 figure, I can't believe that's true, but even if it is, they have many other costs to consider (marketing, licenses, QC, distribution, employee salaries, administrative costs, etc.) that bootleggers don't, yet the unlicensed companies charge nearly as much as HT does for something like this? I understand economies of scale, but I can't imagine HT gets nearly the per-figure profit a company like Inflames/Headplay does.

 

[Raymond F.]

Try to justify this in your mind however you want, but it still doesn't make it right. You guys are forgetting the fact that acquiring a license takes time and money. It's not fair that when legit companies like Hot Toys have to request permission to make a figure, and then pay a huge licensing fee. But, then someone unscrupulous like headplay comes along and start to mass market things without anyone's consent. It defeats the whole purpose of following copyright laws. Guys like headplay and Inflames are just setting a bad example for other upcoming 1/6 companies.

As for Hot Toys, they did initially start out as an unlicensed company. They made a few head-sculpts of celebrities, and placed them on nonsense bodies, basically. Their Ed Norton figure had an Army uniform, and their George Lucas one had pink sunglasses and flamboyant jacket. It was really an attempt to showcase their talent to companies that would find interest in them. Hot Toys did it the right way without infringing on licenses, unlike headplay and his questionable business practices.

Also, please don't give me that "real MGS fan" nonsense. Yoji Shinkawa created Snake, and he owns the intellectual rights to that character. It's certainly not fair to him that someone else is ripping off his work, mass manufacturing it, and selling it for profit. Wouldn't a "real fan" (as you so coined the term) want to support the original artist? Tell you what; put this figure to the s will Change dramatically very quickly and most likely not or the better for me... It's a politics thing. Ill try and keep positive but he was the only one to defect the blow off of us the last time now there's no one to do thattest. If you ever get the chance, take it to a place where real Metal Gear Solid fans are gathered, such as an autograph session. Then hand the "Metal Boss" box over to Kojima and Shinkawa for them to sign it, and then gauge their reaction.

You're argument sort of falls apart when you say that Hot Toys went about their unlicensed early figures in a way that didn't infringe in the license. The famous type Neo figure was identical to the situation with Metal Boss. Identical really, no license and a serious attempt fir accuracy (at the time).

I'm not taking anything away from the apreciation of the scorce matriial, hideo kojima, yoji shinkawa etc. I'm sure they are not crying in poverty anywhere though, regardless does it make it right the situation with unlicensed figures? Sort of actually. It gets the character out there as further exposure and wets the markets apetite for more stuff. Trust me I work fir the largest handbag company in the US. Bootleg product helps buisiness from an exposure level. Do they try and stop it from happening? Sure but it's just sort of one of those things that piss you off from a pride level more than anything else.

I have no need for figures in the KAI scale but just when I was gonna get rid of the one i have I see they beefed up the line with more awesomess I can't resist. My apetite has been wet and I want more.

With the headplay snake on my shelf I'll be chomping at the bit for more snake and MGS product,

 

[Solidus]

This was done the right way? C'mon now. They were as bad as anyone with this stuff back in the day, so there is some level of hypocrisy at work if HT was behind the legal issues here. And they still use known actor likenesses for the Truetypes (presumably) without paying for them. That's really no different than any other form of trademark infringement in my view. HT is not innocent here.

You're argument sort of falls apart when you say that Hot Toys went about their unlicensed early figures in a way that didn't infringe in the license. The famous type Neo figure was identical to the situation with Metal Boss. Identical really, no license and a serious attempt fir accuracy (at the time).

No it isn't the same, by any means. Unlike video games, celebrities and their likeness aren't owned pieces of intellectual property. Movie companies, even to this day, will not go after someone who produced a Keanu Reeves-looking figure and dressed it up Matrix-style. This is also the reason for why most custom 1/6 creators stick purely to celebrity figures, so that they can enjoy their hobby, make some cash, and be on the safe side.

Also, if I remember correctly, Hot Toys did not mass market their initial figures for sale. You'd be hard-pressed to find even a few of their older Keanu Reeves figures being sold on the secondary market (let alone, many people who actually own it).

Headplay's mistake was that he manufactured a figure from a franchise that did require a license and payment. From the words "Metal Boss" alone, it's already obvious as to who the character is, and the who the original creators are that own him.

I'm not taking anything away from the apreciation of the scorce matriial, hideo kojima, yoji shinkawa etc. I'm sure they are not crying in poverty anywhere though, regardless does it make it right the situation with unlicensed figures? Sort of actually. It gets the character out there as further exposure and wets the markets apetite for more stuff. Trust me I work fir the largest handbag company in the US. Bootleg product helps buisiness from an exposure level. Do they try and stop it from happening? Sure but it's just sort of one of those things that piss you off from a pride level more than anything else.

Why are you using a bootleg designer bag as an analogy to explain the situation with Headplay, when you previously said that this figure wasn't a bootleg ? In any case, let's detract for a moment, are you referring to Coach? I live in the same city as you do, and I see bootleg Coach bags being sold in Manhattan all the time, as well as the crowds of people scouring to pick one up at $30 a pop. Bootlegs do more than just hurt the designer's pride, it cheapens the brand, and unless your eyes are trained to look for discrepancies, you wouldn't be able to tell a real bag from a fake one.

As for getting the character out there, I don't believe that there are any gamers, who don't already know about Snake. Metal Gear Solid is a well established franchise, with a plethora of officially licensed merchandise being distributed. Snake certainly doesn't need the help of headplay in getting him out there .

Anyway, there's nothing more for me to really say in this thread. Even though I don't support this figure, I do hope that you and the other people who invested in it will be able to enjoy it.

 

[intothevoid]

The price of this unlicensed custom (I agree with the notion that this is not exactly a bootleg, a bootleg is a blatant copy of something original or licensed which already exists) is perfectly fine in the $140-160 range IMO

It's an opportunistic price, I'd bet more than enough people will buy it at that price point.

Now HT will of course come in a bit higher than that (could be anywhere between $170 and $220 or even more judging by recent trends) and that reflects both their higher quality as well as license fees that they have to pay. And I am pretty certain licencing fees are the single biggest component of the cost of any HT figure. The sculptors are design team are paid peanuts relative to the amount the figures go for

 

[K.bowen]

c'mon now seriously. the thread isnt for this lol, both parties have good comments.maybe we should all just get along?

 

[Shropt]

Posts discussing where to buy this figure have been and will be deleted.

 

[karamazov80]

No it isn't the same, by any means. Unlike video games, celebrities and their likeness aren't owned pieces of intellectual property. Movie companies, even to this day, will not go after someone who produced a Keanu Reeves-looking figure and dressed it up Matrix-style. This is also the reason for why most custom 1/6 creators stick purely to celebrity figures, so that they can enjoy their hobby, make some cash, and be on the safe side.

If this was the case, then why was Hot Toys unable to produce Aliens marines with reasonable likenesses? Same for the first Arnold Terminator? What about Kane from Alien? Actor likenesses have to be approved by actors before figures can be made, unless the contract they signed for merchandising allows for the use of their likeness. In the Matrix case, I suspect Keanu signed away likeness claims, seeing as how toys and video games were made from that franchise. But whether that was the case or wasn't, the movie studio (and Keanu) has a right to make money off of his likeness when portrayed as a character from that film.

Here's an example of a lawsuit regarding Arnold and a bobblehead figure:

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/18/national/18arnold.html

"People have a right to stop their name and likeness being used in commercial advertising, for things other than books and biographies," Professor Volokh said. "If someone's image is used without much transformation, if it's not a parody or commentary, that is indeed legally actionable, and under that theory Arnold has a very good claim."

The Matrix figure exhibits precisely the same problems that this new Metal Gear figure does.

HT may be able to get away with the nude bodies because they don't obviously represent versions of that actor or actress from film or TV show X. But if they're gonna go after another company in the way they went after Headplay, then that smells of hypocrisy in this sense, as well, since HT is skirting the payment of rights to actors by sticking their heads on nude bodies.

Small time customizers usually act with impunity because they have such a small, niche market that it doesn't affect anything in the grand scheme of things. That's why the mass produced component of this figure distinguishes it from, say, a customizer making 10 Snake figures.

 

[SwedishHeat]

I agree with the notion that this is not exactly a bootleg, a bootleg is a blatant copy of something original or licensed which already exists)

https://tinyurl.com/6kg7frx

Metal Boss is made, distributed and sold illegally, therefore a BOOTLEG. . . and what do we do with BOOTLEGS??

BURN THEM!!!!


There are two schools of thought I have regarding Hot Toys celebrity heads on True Types.

First off, the subject has to give a ____. Bruce Willis doesn't give a ____. He won't grant his likeness, but he won't sue anybody either, he just doesn't care. Which is probably why he's the most bootlegged guy on the planet. So, Hot Toys does heads for people that don't care, so they don't get sued.

Second, Hot Toys has already paid licensing for nearly every head they've done. Prison Break, Gambit, Gyllenhall, Obama's public domain so no claim there. Fox isn't going to care that they're re-using heads they've already paid licensing for. They don't care about 10% royalty on a $40 item.

The second is the more likely scenario.

Further, Hot Toys, Enterbay, DID, Solider Story, all those guys are overseas. An American company is not going to win a lawsuit based on US intellectual property laws against a Chinese company in a Chinese court, so what's the point of even suing them?? That's why Sideshow doesn't bother making loose bodies and why Triad's (well, they already got sued) EVO and EVA heads looked off. If Headplay was a company based in the US, they would've already been sued off the planet.

And to talk about Raymond's point about headplay sticking it to the man. So, Hot Toys is THE MAN, right?? They paid $30,000 for the license, to do it the right way, officially. Hot Toys has to get Konami's approval to move forward, hence delays. Here's my metaphor. There's a carnival in town. Hot Toys bought a ticket to ride the Ferris wheel, and they stood in line to ride the ride. Headplay comes to the carnival, hops over the ticket counter, pushes Hot Toys out of line and jumps on the ride and goes round and round. Sounds like a pretty ____ move to me. Sure doesn't sound like sticking it to the man to me, sounds like being an _______

 

[gr3nd3l]

Who cares if they are bootleg as long as the quality is A OK and as long as i got my moneys worth. If you don't like the item then Dont buy it!! I think this metal boss is full of win.

 

[intothevoid]

https://tinyurl.com/6kg7frx

Metal Boss is made, distributed and sold illegally, therefore a BOOTLEG. . . and what do we do with BOOTLEGS??

BURN THEM!!!!

Double standards.

By this definition, all Rainman figs should be in a pile of ash.

And you can't take this stance with this figure and try to explain away HT's unlicensed heads either.

Finally, if it weren't for the startup revenues got from unlicensed products, they would never have got off the ground and never generated enough interest/money to buy any license

 

[SwedishHeat]

Did it sound like I was okay with Hot Toys celebrity heads?? I certainly wasn't justifying it. I don't own any. I was merely offering explanations as to why they haven't been sued, while other people have.

I don't think it's fair that anyone can profit off another person's likeness. It's the same reason I hate the paparazzi.

Just because Jay-Z sold drugs on the streets as a young man which provided him with enough money to become a famous rapper and provide with world with countless hours of entertainment doesn't mean it's okay to sell drugs.

And for the record, Hot Toys went to the bank and found investors to become they company they are today, they didn't raise the funds by making a bootleg George Lucas and a bootleg Neo then went to 20th Century Fox and said "Hey can we do Aliens??" Doesn't work that way.

 

[hehateme23]

Some people only collect licensed products, some people collect unlicensed products..

The only thing that matters is how content a collector is with their collection.

So with that said, who is excited about this figure, eh?!

 

[intothevoid]

And for the record, Hot Toys went to the bank and found investors to become they company they are today, they didn't raise the funds by making a bootleg George Lucas and a bootleg Neo then went to 20th Century Fox and said "Hey can we do Aliens??" Doesn't work that way.

Hahaha!

Yeah sure they found investors/financing from banks but you think any investor or bank worth their salt would have given them their time of day had they not had some track record of decent quality products (which were incidently bootlegs) to show them?