J.J. Abrams' Star Trek Into Darkness

[screamingmetal]

They didn't have a cloaking device yet.

The Federation doesn't use cloaking technology (at least until the Dominion War). Roddenberry said the reason is that "the Federation doesn't sneak around". But it would prove to be so incredibly useful in space exploration like following the Prime Directive, that it doesn't make sense not to use it.

The simple reason I believe it's not used is because people want to see the spaceship zooming around.

Even in old Trek there's head scratching things done just for the effect.

 

[The Ween]

The Federation doesn't use cloaking technology (at least until the Dominion War). Roddenberry said the reason is that "the Federation doesn't sneak around". But it would prove to be so incredibly useful in space exploration like following the Prime Directive, that it doesn't make sense not to use it.

The simple reason I believe it's not used is because people want to see the spaceship zooming around.

Even in old Trek there's head scratching things done just for the effect.

Right, but they have used it in other movies. ST: The Voyage Home for one.

You never know, maybe in the next one, the "locals" seeing the ship might figure in somehow.

Or the tribble.....

 

[CelticPredator]

Yeah I thought Celtic was very much against ****ing on the old just because something new has come along. And other than saying he likes TWOK thats pretty much the way he has talked about old Star Trek, rather dismissively, like it was never good until Abrams films

I'm not against crapping on those AWFUL TNG movies. That's what i'm talking about. Trek in the 90's, film wise, was about making them into big action movies. And failing.

I have no problem with old Trek. But screw those TNG movies.

 

[a-dev]

Star Trek Generations and First Contact were both good IMO. They only went downhill with Insurrection and Nemesis. I think they were right to leave it at that when Nemesis didn't do too well though.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

I'm not against crapping on those AWFUL TNG movies. That's what i'm talking about. Trek in the 90's, film wise, was about making them into big action movies. And failing.

I have no problem with old Trek. But screw those TNG movies.

Insurrection was rough. But, Generations, First Contact and probably Nemesis were clearly better than The Motion Picture and Final Frontier. I liked FC and Gen better than Search for Spock. I'd put First Contact up there with Undiscovered Country among the better Trek movies. Not as good as Wrath of Khan ... but better than most Star Trek movies.

Voyage Home was good ... but a strange Trek movie. The awesome character interactions and dialogue next to the monumentally stupid save-the-whales plot makes that one difficult for me to rank.

I'd rank them ...

Wrath of Khan
Star Trek
Into Darkness
First Contact
Undiscovered Country
Generations
Voyage Home
Search for Spock
Nemesis
The Motion Picture
Insurrection
Final Frontier

... which puts the TNG movies fairly well distributed within. If you included some of the TNG two-epsiode events among the "movies", they'd be among the best.

SnakeDoc

 

[CelticPredator]

Still. I don't like those flicks. The Abrams flicks did that kind of Trek way better then those filmmakers did.


I haven't seen the Original Series films, so i'm not commenting on those.

 

[The Ween]

Insurrection was rough. But, Generations, First Contact and probably Nemesis were clearly better than The Motion Picture and Final Frontier. I liked FC and Gen better than Search for Spock. I'd put First Contact up there with Undiscovered Country among the better Trek movies. Not as good as Wrath of Khan ... but better than most Star Trek movies.

Voyage Home was good ... but a strange Trek movie. The awesome character interactions and dialogue next to the monumentally stupid save-the-whales plot makes that one difficult for me to rank.

I'd rank them ...

Wrath of Khan
Star Trek
Into Darkness
First Contact
Undiscovered Country
Generations
Voyage Home
Search for Spock
Nemesis
The Motion Picture
Insurrection
Final Frontier

... which puts the TNG movies fairly well distributed within. If you included some of the TNG two-epsiode events among the "movies", they'd be among the best.

SnakeDoc

I loved Voyage Home. It's really hard for me to pick between that one and Khan so I usually call it a tie.

I have to say that I really like the new ones a lot. If I were to list them in with them all, I'd have to almost put them to the top.

You're right to put Final Frontier in the very bottom. That one makes me cringe.

 

[The Ween]

I'm not against crapping on those AWFUL TNG movies. That's what i'm talking about. Trek in the 90's, film wise, was about making them into big action movies. And failing.

I have no problem with old Trek. But screw those TNG movies.

Celtic, at least watch Wrath of Khan if nothing else.

 

[CelticPredator]

I have, I love that movie. It's the only one i've seen.

I didn't count that because everyone here knows my stand on WoK.

 

[The Ween]

I forgot to ask, was there anything after the credits? I didn't stay because I had to pee too bad.

 

[a-dev]

I forgot to ask, was there anything after the credits? I didn't stay because I had to pee too bad.

Yeah Nick Fury came in and unfroze Khan again to ask him to join the Avengers.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Yeah Nick Fury came in and unfroze Khan again to ask him to join the Avengers.

Don't lie.

Fury didn't ask anyone to join the Avengers ... he just invited Kirk to a deli for a sandwich. In silence.

SnakeDoc

 

[The Ween]

Yeah Nick Fury came in and unfroze Khan again to ask him to join the Avengers.

Did he tell him to go F himself?

Don't lie.

Fury didn't ask anyone to join the Avengers ... he just invited Kirk to a deli for a sandwich. In silence.

SnakeDoc

Did Scotty try to hide his beard?

I'll take it there wasn't anything then.

 

[j97e1]

Just watched it last night.
We really loved it. It was entertaining, fast-paced, but not too fast. Action scenes were well done.
Actually, I loved it better than IM3, which at times made me wish for a FAST-FORWARD button.
Hubby and I are not huge Trek fans, and are not familiar with little details, or reasons 'why'. We don't know what 'makes sense', or 'what should have been'. We just like to get our fair share of entertainment when paying for a ticket, and this movie did deliver each penny's worth.
If you didn't see it - Go, see it while still on the big screen.

 

[K07]

Star Trek Generations and First Contact were both good IMO. They only went downhill with Insurrection and Nemesis. I think they were right to leave it at that when Nemesis didn't do too well though.

I love "Generations." It's my favorite Trek movie. I didn't see it as a big action movie. It's a character driven movie with Picard dealing with the loss of his family's legacy and Data becoming as human as he'll ever be. It was wonderful. I've seen the Plinkett review. Hilarious. I saw Generations before I saw all of TNG so I didn't notice half of the contradictions. I can get over those and enjoy the great script. I also don't care how they killed Kirk off. I liked that he died saving some backwater planet no one has heard of. Why does it always have to be Earth?

I love "First Contact." It's my second favorite Trek movie. This one is totally an action movie and a very entertaining one. It is also character driven with Picard dealing with his feelings of revenge towards the Borg. I have seen the Plinkett review of this one and I agree the whole "I, Borg" episode and this one don't sit well with me. This was a great theme that should have been dealt with so I appreciate seeing it. It was almost a reverse of TWOK with a Federation character going out of his way (somewhat) to exact his revenge on someone who hurt him in the past.

I don't care for "Insurrection" or "Nemesis." The former felt like a two part episode of TNG. The latter was just too silly for me and uninteresting.

Of the originals? I'd say TWOK and TVH are my favorites. I don't care much for the others. Especially the fifth one. I hated the '09 one more than that because it felt wrong for me to see. But since I enjoyed this one, my initial impressions might be off. I'll rewatch it and rank all the films. But there's no way anything is taking Generations or First Contact off the top of my list.

 

[thecapn]

Generations, despite it's flaws, "felt" like it belonged in the TNG canon. It was a TNG kindof story, and expanded the characters in ways that made common sense (Picard's family, Data's emotions). It also wrapped up the Duras sisters' storyline in a plausible way. The Enterprise's destruction - man, that was forced, and I think it would've been a better movie without Kirk's involvement, but it was definitely solid.

First Contact is my absolute favorite of the Trek movies - but it doesn't feel very TNG. Feels more Die Hard...which isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course!

 

[K07]

First Contact is my absolute favorite of the Trek movies - but it doesn't feel very TNG. Feels more Die Hard...which isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course!

I felt all the Earth/Zephram Cochrane stuff felt solid like a time travel episode of the TV series. The whole saving the timeline is right out of TOS ("City on the Edge of Forever")! It was an interesting look back into the past of an event that had been referenced but never fully fleshed out.

The action stuff felt out of place, but agreed, it wasn't a bad thing. It was cool to see some intense action against arguably the most dangerous enemy.

 

[a-dev]

I don't think I ever saw the Plinkett reviews of the TNG films. Must give them a watch.

I watched First Contact the other week and something occurred. The Enterprise crew didn't seem to give much thought to the people the Borg killed in their attack on the earth colony in 2063. They were only worried about Zephram Cochrane. But who knows who those other people were or whose ancestors they were. The Enterprise could go back to the future and find that thousands of people have been wiped out of existance. In fact they would for sure. Isn't that significant?

It also occurred to me the way time travel rules are different in Star Trek than they are in Terminator. When the Borg go into the past in Star Trek First Contact their impact on earth of the 24th century is instantaneous. The Enterprise scans Earth and it is entirely borg. The only reason they too haven't been wiped out of existance is they are caught in the temporal wake of the vortex the Borg just created.

Yet in Terminator when Skynet sends its Terminators to the past the resistance is somehow still able to send back its protectors and theres no attempt to explain how they are still in existance to do that.

Thusly it seems Star Trek time travel affects this one timeline. And by implication the Abrams-verse has wiped out the old Trek-verse unless they've changed the rules for a laugh. Terminator time travel creates alternate timelines while not changing anything in the time travellers own timeline.....thereby rendering Skynets strategy pointless. If their plan succeeded they would only be helping themselves in an alternate timeline while still being defeated in their own.

 

[CollectorNC]

I didn't think twice about it. There are a lot of things in the Star Trek universe that makes you wonder.

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't watch anymore of these movies. I think it will only aggravate you.

Look dude, who are you to tell me what to do? No one on here that has flamed me has given any real explanation to anything. That's because they don't care that Star Trek has turned into another mind-numbingly dumb series for the ADD generation. The old show and TNG covered relevant current events in the guise of science fiction. They handled tough, controversial issues of the time and made people think and enjoy the show at the same time. I'm all for a good popcorn movie, but Trek doesn't have to be a plot-hole riddled mess, with little substance. Not every movie and show has managed to stay consistent, but that is a lazy excuse for defending the new Treks.

 

[thecapn]

Look dude, who are you to tell me what to do? No one on here that has flamed me has given any real explanation to anything. That's because they don't care that Star Trek has turned into another mind-numbingly dumb series for the ADD generation. The old show and TNG covered relevant current events in the guise of science fiction. They handled tough, controversial issues of the time and made people think and enjoy the show at the same time. I'm all for a good popcorn movie, but Trek doesn't have to be a plot-hole riddled mess, with little substance. Not every movie and show has managed to stay consistent, but that is a lazy excuse for defending the new Treks.

You know, I agree with you...but we have to remember, unfortunately, that these movies aren't being make for us old-school Trekkies...like you said, it's for the ADD generation who want big explosions at the expense of making sense and following canon. The more I think about it, the more I hate the way they've depicted warp in this new universe - completely different for no real reason.

I've been reading Michael Piller's unpublished book on the making of Insurrection the past few days, and one of the most interesting points he makes is how Roddenberry created a "box." They actually called it "Gene's Box" in the story room. Basically, characters had to act a certain way, tech had to be used in a certain way, and writers were pulling their hair out because they couldn't tell certain stories. And Piller basically said that the "box" made him, and others, better writers as a result, because they couldn't rely on lazy writing and stereotypes to tell their stories. They had to up their games to tell the story they wanted to while fitting in the "box," and after Gene died, Piller took up the "box" himself. He actually said that most of the writers who were able to adapt the best were ones who were long-time Star Trek fans and had a hard time actually thinking OUTSIDE of the box lol.

Too bad Piller's passed away now. Would've loved for him to be on the writing team - not as a lead writer, but just to keep them in the "box." Because based on this book, he was never opposed to popcorn movies, just that they had to fit into Gene's vision. And the funny thing is, with a few tweaks - a few rewritten scenes - this movie COULD have done that. Take out the warp "fight." Have the Enterprise in orbit and the shuttle underwater. Have a couple throwaway lines about the time it took to get to Kronos. Throw in a scene where Harrison sabotages the other ships near Earth so they can't come after him, and the Enterprise somehow comes out unscathed. It would've been so easy with a little forethought.

Ah well.