J.J. Abrams' Star Trek Into Darkness

[Adolfo]

You know, I agree with you...but we have to remember, unfortunately, that these movies aren't being make for us old-school Trekkies...like you said, it's for the ADD generation who want big explosions at the expense of making sense and following canon. The more I think about it, the more I hate the way they've depicted warp in this new universe - completely different for no real reason.

I've been reading Michael Piller's unpublished book on the making of Insurrection the past few days, and one of the most interesting points he makes is how Roddenberry created a "box." They actually called it "Gene's Box" in the story room. Basically, characters had to act a certain way, tech had to be used in a certain way, and writers were pulling their hair out because they couldn't tell certain stories. And Piller basically said that the "box" made him, and others, better writers as a result, because they couldn't rely on lazy writing and stereotypes to tell their stories. They had to up their games to tell the story they wanted to while fitting in the "box," and after Gene died, Piller took up the "box" himself. He actually said that most of the writers who were able to adapt the best were ones who were long-time Star Trek fans and had a hard time actually thinking OUTSIDE of the box lol.

Too bad Piller's passed away now. Would've loved for him to be on the writing team - not as a lead writer, but just to keep them in the "box." Because based on this book, he was never opposed to popcorn movies, just that they had to fit into Gene's vision. And the funny thing is, with a few tweaks - a few rewritten scenes - this movie COULD have done that. Take out the warp "fight." Have the Enterprise in orbit and the shuttle underwater. Have a couple throwaway lines about the time it took to get to Kronos. Throw in a scene where Harrison sabotages the other ships near Earth so they can't come after him, and the Enterprise somehow comes out unscathed. It would've been so easy with a little forethought.

Ah well.

Truly fantastic post...well said!

 

[CollectorNC]

You know, I agree with you...but we have to remember, unfortunately, that these movies aren't being make for us old-school Trekkies...like you said, it's for the ADD generation who want big explosions at the expense of making sense and following canon. The more I think about it, the more I hate the way they've depicted warp in this new universe - completely different for no real reason.

I've been reading Michael Piller's unpublished book on the making of Insurrection the past few days, and one of the most interesting points he makes is how Roddenberry created a "box." They actually called it "Gene's Box" in the story room. Basically, characters had to act a certain way, tech had to be used in a certain way, and writers were pulling their hair out because they couldn't tell certain stories. And Piller basically said that the "box" made him, and others, better writers as a result, because they couldn't rely on lazy writing and stereotypes to tell their stories. They had to up their games to tell the story they wanted to while fitting in the "box," and after Gene died, Piller took up the "box" himself. He actually said that most of the writers who were able to adapt the best were ones who were long-time Star Trek fans and had a hard time actually thinking OUTSIDE of the box lol.

Too bad Piller's passed away now. Would've loved for him to be on the writing team - not as a lead writer, but just to keep them in the "box." Because based on this book, he was never opposed to popcorn movies, just that they had to fit into Gene's vision. And the funny thing is, with a few tweaks - a few rewritten scenes - this movie COULD have done that. Take out the warp "fight." Have the Enterprise in orbit and the shuttle underwater. Have a couple throwaway lines about the time it took to get to Kronos. Throw in a scene where Harrison sabotages the other ships near Earth so they can't come after him, and the Enterprise somehow comes out unscathed. It would've been so easy with a little forethought.

Ah well.

Good backstory and points.

 

[EVILFACE]

I'd rank them ...

Wrath of Khan




The Motion Picture



First Contact


Star Trek




Into Darkness



Undiscovered Country

Generations

Voyage Home
Search for Spock


Final Frontier












Nemesis






Insurrection

 

[CollectorNC]

Ranked...
Star Trek II
Star Trek VI
Star Trek IV
Star Trek III
Star Trek First Contact
Star Trek The Motion Picture
Star Trek (2009)
Star Trek Generations
Star Trek Into Darkness
Star Trek V
Star Trek Insurrection
Star Trek Nemesis

 

[creature4000]

Good list EvilFace!

 

[abake]

Look dude, who are you to tell me what to do? No one on here that has flamed me has given any real explanation to anything. That's because they don't care that Star Trek has turned into another mind-numbingly dumb series for the ADD generation. The old show and TNG covered relevant current events in the guise of science fiction. They handled tough, controversial issues of the time and made people think and enjoy the show at the same time. I'm all for a good popcorn movie, but Trek doesn't have to be a plot-hole riddled mess, with little substance. Not every movie and show has managed to stay consistent, but that is a lazy excuse for defending the new Treks.

I don't agree with your assessment.
I can clearly see that STID covers current events in the guise of science fiction.
Sure, there's some plot holes, and a little less science, but it's still there.

 

[CollectorNC]

I don't agree with your assessment.
I can clearly see that STID covers current events in the guise of science fiction.
Sure, there's some plot holes, and a little less science, but it's still there.

Maybe the only thing it covered was corrupt government (starfleet) officials.

 

[Wanderer]

In all fairness, JJ and co really really didn't need to dO any of this time travel alternate universe bs. It could've just as well of been made as a complete revisit and I would've been happy.
As it is, it's lazy, the plot devices and holes are ridiculous and ultimately it's a waste of a good cast (apart from John Chow and Pegg who are miscast)
The slaps in the face to the fan base are a bit ridiculous and doesn't bode well for SWVII

As for Plinketts review of Generations - it was hilarious Spot on assessment of one of the worst trek films.

My favourites

TrekII
TrekIII
TrekVI
Motion picture
First contact

The rest - meh

 

[CollectorNC]

In all fairness, JJ and co really really didn't need to dO any of this time travel alternate universe bs. It could've just as well of been made as a complete revisit and I would've been happy.
As it is, it's lazy, the plot devices and holes are ridiculous and ultimately it's a waste of a good cast (apart from John Chow and Pegg who are miscast)
The slaps in the face to the fan base are a bit ridiculous and doesn't bode well for SWVII

As for Plinketts review of Generations - it was hilarious Spot on assessment of one of the worst trek films.

My favourites

TrekII
TrekIII
TrekVI
Motion picture
First contact

The rest - meh

If they never had Old Spock, they'd be able to create their alternate reality, new vision--whatever--with a lot less eye rolling fans. Into Darkness, when Old Spock came on screen, the packed theater groaned and for good reason--just like Enterprise under water, Old Spock was a cheap thrill with no purpose other than be the token cameo in a film series that is nothing like his film series was. Problem is not enough fans seem to speak out about ST compared to number of Star Wars fans that speak out. It's really much of the same with everything human in these series being CGI'ed out so there's bright lights, big explosions, colorful planets--to keep the people who can't sit still for more than five minutes entertained.

 

[Dr Daystrom]

The old show and TNG covered relevant current events in the guise of science fiction. They handled tough, controversial issues of the time and made people think and enjoy the show at the same time. I'm all for a good popcorn movie, but Trek doesn't have to be a plot-hole riddled mess, with little substance.

I miss the Tough, Controversial issue shows too from the old days...

Like Shore Leave where we learned Disneyland would be less fun if the costumed characters tried to chase and kill you...

or Mirror, Mirror, where we learned growing a goatee may negatively impact one's character...

Arena taught us lizards are bad. Fortunately slow and clumsy as well.

The Trouble with Tribbles, clearly a stern warning about resource management...

A Piece of the Action: Let's not bring back 1930's Chicago mobs (ditto for the similar Roman and Nazi themed episodes)

Spock's Brain...need I even comment?

The original show was fine entertainment, but let's take it down off the high pedestal, not every show or even the majority were even remotely "issue" driven. Most were just straight action adventure...

 

[CollectorNC]

I miss the Tough, Controversial issue shows too from the old days...

Like Shore Leave where we learned Disneyland would be less fun if the costumed characters tried to chase and kill you...

or Mirror, Mirror, where we learned growing a goatee may negatively impact one's character...

Arena taught us lizards are bad. Fortunately slow and clumsy as well.

The Trouble with Tribbles, clearly a stern warning about resource management...

A Piece of the Action: Let's not bring back 1930's Chicago mobs (ditto for the similar Roman and Nazi themed episodes)

Spock's Brain...need I even comment?

The original show was fine entertainment, but let's take it down off the high pedestal, not every show or even the majority were even remotely "issue" driven. Most were just straight action adventure...

Never said every episode was Shakespeare. Same for TNG and DS9, etc. They all had their share of stupid episodes, but when you have volume of episodes vs. 1 movie every 3-4 years, with many of the episodes very good, it puts more pressure on the movie to hit it out of the park. And I disagree with the whole action adventure. They didn't have the special effects to have 60 min. focused on the enterprise rising from the water, they actually had to tell a story without enough plot holes to fly a starship through. And like someone else said, they had actual consultants on the show that weren't from video game publisher.

 

[JAWS]

Never said every episode was Shakespeare. Same for TNG and DS9, etc. They all had their share of stupid episodes, but when you have volume of episodes vs. 1 movie every 3-4 years, with many of the episodes very good, it puts more pressure on the movie to hit it out of the park. And I disagree with the whole action adventure. They didn't have the special effects to have 60 min. focused on the enterprise rising from the water, they actually had to tell a story without enough plot holes to fly a starship through. And like someone else said, they had actual consultants on the show that weren't from video game publisher.

 

[JAWS]

Still. I don't like those flicks. The Abrams flicks did that kind of Trek way better then those filmmakers did.


I haven't seen the Original Series films, so i'm not commenting on those.

:eek Well I am glad to see that you saw WoK... How have you not followed up with TSFS??

 

[CelticPredator]

Because I prefer Spock being dead. Better thematically.

 

[K07]

The slaps in the face to the fan base are a bit ridiculous and doesn't bode well for SWVII

Except JJ isn't a Trek fan. These are as if CelticPredator took a franchise he didn't like and decided to make it something he would like. JJ likes Star Wars. No need to transform it into anything. Besides, these new Treks feel more like a Star Wars type action romp than the Roddenberry Trek we had known for the past 50 years. It's silly of me, but I have high hopes for the Sequel Trilogy!

As for Plinketts review of Generations - it was hilarious Spot on assessment of one of the worst trek films.

Still my favorite Trek movie, but understand why it's not as well received by most. It at least felt like an episode of TNG despite the glaring contradictions to the series. These feel like something we've never seen. I'm happy so many Trekkies are enjoying them. I'll keep seeing them as they come out, but if I wanna rewatch Trek, it's gonna be episodes of TNG.

 

[JAWS]

Ranked...
Star Trek II
Star Trek VI
Star Trek IV
Star Trek III
Star Trek First Contact
Star Trek The Motion Picture
Star Trek (2009)
Star Trek Generations
Star Trek Into Darkness
Star Trek V
Star Trek Insurrection
Star Trek Nemesis

I would rank like this

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (Easily the Best)
Star Trek (Very good film. Did what I thought was impossible with the new cast)
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (very underrated)

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (Has not aged all that well)
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (Like IV have aged well but both have great moments)

Star Trek: Into Darkness (Too much action not enough character)
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (If you can get by the first half hour and the bad FX this one is not all that bad)

Star Trek: The Motion Picture (I like some of the ideas but the characters are dull and not much like themselves)

Star Trek: Generations (meh... Disrespectful to Kirk by giving him a stupid death)
Star Trek: First Contact ( Worf says "Assimilate this"... Nuff said)

I stopped watching after this. TNG is just not for me. I don't care for a single character on that show and hated them all in the movies. I wanted to scream every time Data opened his mouth after he gets the emotion chip.. BARF!!! Some truly awful writing in these films IMO.

 

[JAWS]

Because I prefer Spock being dead. Better thematically.

Shut your Mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[K07]

TNG is just not for me. I don't care for a single character on that show and hated them all in the movies.

TNG is a superior show to me because it wasn't just Picard, Riker, and Data running around with a bunch of other crew members that are supporting cast members. Everybody was characterized into a living, breathing character. The TOS crew never became as fleshed out.

I can agree the writing in the TNG films is not as good as the show. I love Worf's line though

 

[Deckard]

I always loved TOS because of the adventure, Kirk fighting aliens hand to hand, falling in love with the girl and all against a pretty advanced thematic background for the 60's like man gaining godlike powers and the effects of trying to still live like a man.

Every time I popped on TNG it was just a holodeck malfunctioning and trapping Picard in the 16th century in pantaloons so he could showcase his classical acting abilities and sing some british folk song.

 

[Wanderer]

TNG was a mixed bag but I rank Best of Both Worlds as two of the best episodes in Trek history. Introduction of the Borg, Picard being transformed into Locutus, the battle of Wolf 359. It really shook things up. They tried to capture that feel again in First Contact but by then the Borg were too familiar.