Joker: Folie à Deux

[Nick D]

Secondly - why this discourse of "why do people like villains" can be read too much into and cause self-created problems for critics and creatives, and why I think this impacted Joker.

So people like villains,
It doesn't mean people are secretly psychos and losers who want to watch the world burn and the idea that the masses need to be educated and uplifted/enlightened by content-creators and members of the literati has been debunked on a societal level more times than I can fathom.
Watching Tarantino movies doesn't encourage people into a life of crime, watching horror movies doesn't make serial killers, enjoying Hopkins performance as Hannibal Lecter doesn't make someone a cannibal, liking Darth Vader doesn't make people into space-fascists and enjoying the Joker as a character and perhaps even feeling a degree of empathy doesn't make someone a crazed anarchist.

I thought we all collectively got over this hurdle with the insane critical reaction and fear-mongering spread about the first film before its release...
and the audience I believe did get over it because, being rational and decent ordinary people who actually understand human nature and dont view their fellow humans as impressionable sheep who will follow whatever example is shown to them, they dismissed this fear-mongering hysteria by the critical class as the ******** it was.

Sadly it seems Phillips bought this hysterical school of thought hook-line-and-sinker.
This movie seems to be made with one purpose only = to "correct" the "mistakes" made by the last film in making the Joker character remotely relatable or sympathetic as clearly this is creating a false idol of deviance for the gullible masses to adopt as a symbol and it is the duty of the content-creator class to educate the masses on why a man who kills people is bad and we are bad for remotely liking him in a film that was crafted specifically to help audiences empathize with the character...
Because clearly an audience with such a capacity for empathy and sympathy are all ready to be moulded into psychopaths, incels and whathaveyou.
So the solution? deconstruct everything that drew people to the previous film's iteration of the character and furthermore deconstruct the fanbase itself with an audience surrogate....
Its just insulting at this point and betrays a condescending attitude from the director and writers.

In short, **** Todd Phillips.

 

[jye4ever]

wait, he is coming..
View attachment 731241

I can only imagine that he must be super happy and feels lucky that Phoenix failed miserably because now it’s his time to shine, all eyes are on him now!

 

[jye4ever]

Do you know what kind of failure we are talking about here with this movie?

They literally set up the natural progression going from him killing Murray to then him and Harley in the sequel taking out the audience just like in Dark Knight Returns.

They had a clear path to do that it was a natural narrative progression from him killing the talkshow HOST to then killing the audience!!

Instead he went and got ***** because you know that makes so much more sense!

I’m just a fan of the character yet the narrative path is so clear for me while Hollywood can’t write themselves out of a paper bag!

 

[lordnastrond]

I can only imagine that he must be super happy and feels lucky that Phoenix failed miserably because now it’s his time to shine, all eyes are on him now!

After Leto and Phoenix I would be hesitating to take that step into the spotlight if I was Keoghan.
Not that I have any doubt in his talent, but actors are at the mercy of the writing and direction.

Honestly though, as a member of the audience and someone who has always enjoyed the character, give Joker a rest for a few years - Batman has the most iconic villains in all popular culture, give someone else a chance in the spotlight and also... can we please move past this "ultrra-realistic-Batman" take, Gothan ought to be a heightened reality rather than utterly grounded.

 

[MarkKing]

They need to give heroes their bright colored costumes again....

Sell toys and make money. Their is no money in the Joker getting bent.

 

[Entropy]

 

[R_R_X]

No official merch for the sequel so far is pretty weird. There’s nothing, right? Not even a single Gaga.

Hard to believe companies don't want to touch this masterpiece with a 10ft pole, you'd think we'd at least get a double pack of Gleeson and Arthur with a bathroom diorama to represent one of the greatest moments in cinema history!

 

[GaryPool]

Hopefully whoever does that releases an Irreversible diorama too.

 

[crows]

leto joker redeemed
release the Ayer cut now
the vindication of leto begins now

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

wait, he is coming..
View attachment 731241

That's hard to look at.

I for one would like to finally see a classic debonair comic Joker. Basically, the guy in the photo with green hair and that's it.

No scars, no clown makeup, no long hair, no tattoos or any other weird "creative" choices.

Just have this guy with the same exact haircut, with green hair in a stylish purple suit, green shirt, orange vest. Acid flower optional.

Hopefully James Gunn's Batman and Robin movie gives us a classic Joker

 

[Wor-Gar]

 

[jye4ever]

Graceker

 

[crows]

View attachment 731275

 

[Wor-Gar]

Crows... Sydney Sweeney as Harley.

 

[Otomofan]

After the proper movie, during the closing credits. These are literally the last words of Arthur we hear.

Oh cool. It's on the soundtrack. I'll go get that in the same place I got the movie. Just wanna hear that one song.

 

[crows]

Crows... Sydney Sweeney as Harley.

no current Hollywood wouldn't allow that. even skinny Margot Robbie's outfit on suicide squad was trashed and crucified for being sexist.

but I actually would prefer Samara Weaving
be ause of her role in guns akimbo.
because she did a much better crazy Harley than even Margot Robbie.

Samara Weaving was actually wild and dangerous

 

[lordnastrond]

no current Hollywood wouldn't allow that. even skinny Margot Robbie's outfit on suicide squad was trashed and crucified for being sexist.

but I actually would prefer Samara Weaving
be ause of her role in guns akimbo.
because she did a much better crazy Harley than even Margot Robbie.

Samara Weaving was actually wild and dangerous

Samara Weaving is an excellent actress and would be perfect as Harley.

 

[Nick D]

Would have made more sense to just cast his wife for Harley no? A better pairing. Though having said that,
I don’t have a clue of her acting ability, surely good enough to match the baseline effort we got from Gaga.

 

[crows]

Would have made more sense to just cast his wife for Harley no? A better pairing. Though having said that,
I don’t have a clue of her acting ability, surely good enough to match the baseline effort we got from Gaga.

View attachment 731282

she ruined the nightmare on elm Street remake

she's really bad

 

[crows]

outside of the ****
the second way this movie humiliated joker was when he only lasted 20 seconds in *** with Harley.

most people are skipping over this,
most men don't wanna talk about it.

but it happened