intothevoid
Super Freak
Re: Christopher Nolan's Justice League?
Yeah, I agree
Yeah, I agree
JUSTICE LEAGUE movie
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thenammagazine
Super Freak
Green Lantern could still work and be tied to the JLA.
SnakeDoctor
Super Freak
Marvel and DC are very different animals. You can't market them the same. DC has two really big-time icons -- Batman and Superman -- and a bunch of far lesser Justice League guys. Marvel has nobody quite a big as Bats or Supes, but a whole bunch of mid-range characters all of whom are bigger than the rest of the downballot JL group.
So, don't do it like Marvel did the Avengers. Captain America, Hulk and Iron Man have an easier time standing on their own than do The Flash, Aquaman or Hawkman.
Do independent reboots of Superman and Batman franchises -- since those are the only two that can stand on their own at the moment -- and then introduce the rest of the League in a Justice movie. Any other individual movies can spin-off from Justice, rather than the other way around ... either with prequels or sequels.
The Justice League is not The Avengers. The Avengers is a group of characters of roughly equal popularity (at least the major ones). The Justice League has two major standouts that far exceed anyone else in the group in popularity. If DC tries to do it exactly the same way as Marvel did, they'll set themselves up for failure.
SnakeDoc
So, don't do it like Marvel did the Avengers. Captain America, Hulk and Iron Man have an easier time standing on their own than do The Flash, Aquaman or Hawkman.
Do independent reboots of Superman and Batman franchises -- since those are the only two that can stand on their own at the moment -- and then introduce the rest of the League in a Justice movie. Any other individual movies can spin-off from Justice, rather than the other way around ... either with prequels or sequels.
The Justice League is not The Avengers. The Avengers is a group of characters of roughly equal popularity (at least the major ones). The Justice League has two major standouts that far exceed anyone else in the group in popularity. If DC tries to do it exactly the same way as Marvel did, they'll set themselves up for failure.
SnakeDoc
While I think Devil and Snake are correct in that Supes and Batman are really bigger and more well known than the biggest Avengers members (Hulk, Cap, and Iron Man), the idea of a World's Finest without buildup makes a lot of sense from that POV, but wouldn't necessarily be the best way to go about a JLA movie. But if you do introduce guys like, say, Flash and Green Arrow, and do so with good movies, then you could have a much bigger success with the JLA then just showing up with all these guys at the outset. Because then you have all these characters people care about on some level getting together for the first time in earnest, and that's the recipe for $$$
Hollywood is a hype machine, and Marvel effectively built up hype. DC can do the same, though obviously, the same type of buildup isn't required for Superman as it would be for Hawkman or Aquaman. But you need good movies for this, like I said before. Not mediocre movies--even if you personally hate it, Iron Man 2 had a 74% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, so the consensus disagrees with the POV that it sucks; Green Lantern has a 27% rating.
Hollywood is a hype machine, and Marvel effectively built up hype. DC can do the same, though obviously, the same type of buildup isn't required for Superman as it would be for Hawkman or Aquaman. But you need good movies for this, like I said before. Not mediocre movies--even if you personally hate it, Iron Man 2 had a 74% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, so the consensus disagrees with the POV that it sucks; Green Lantern has a 27% rating.
thenammagazine
Super Freak
SnakeDoctor
Super Freak
Heh. Tell me what you really think.
I always enjoy it when people "Exactly"-smiley themselves, though.
SnakeDoc
I always enjoy it when people "Exactly"-smiley themselves, though.
SnakeDoc
thenammagazine
Super Freak
I think you don't know what the ____ you're talking about when it comes to comic books or Hollywood for that matter. That's what I think. I'll concede that Bats and Supes are the biggest, but don't be too quick to discredit DC's other heroes and the Marvel Universe (especially with what Avengers has been and is still raking in). That said, why waste money on JLA then? By your post, they just need to do a Superman/Batman movie and it would smash all the other superhero movies to date. In reality, I honestly don't even think it'd top TDK because without build-up, you're not going to get near the level of interest needed to match the budget they'd throw at it.
SnakeDoctor
Super Freak
I was being sarcastic. I already knew what you really thought.
I think a Justice movie would be a jumping-off point for other DC franchises, not the other way around. That's why they'd want "waste money" on it ... for the same reason the Justice League comic is the tentpole of their comic book releases.
I don't necessarily think a World's Finest movie would top all other superhero movies. Honestly, I'm not sure DC can financially top the Dark Knight franchise ... but, there's still money to be made. As a concept, Batman works better when he's by himself. It is possible that Batman alone is the best financial formula DC has. But, the Justice League won't work without Batman ... and, the JL and spinoff franchises could make a great deal of money, even if none of them individually surpass Batman by himself.
I think a well-done JL movie is a perfectly viable way to introduce and draw interest to other DC characters -- particularly if the characters are compellingly portrayed in a JL movie. There's also something to be said for not simply trying to exactly copy Marvel. Marvel already did that.
SnakeDoc
I think a Justice movie would be a jumping-off point for other DC franchises, not the other way around. That's why they'd want "waste money" on it ... for the same reason the Justice League comic is the tentpole of their comic book releases.
I don't necessarily think a World's Finest movie would top all other superhero movies. Honestly, I'm not sure DC can financially top the Dark Knight franchise ... but, there's still money to be made. As a concept, Batman works better when he's by himself. It is possible that Batman alone is the best financial formula DC has. But, the Justice League won't work without Batman ... and, the JL and spinoff franchises could make a great deal of money, even if none of them individually surpass Batman by himself.
I think a well-done JL movie is a perfectly viable way to introduce and draw interest to other DC characters -- particularly if the characters are compellingly portrayed in a JL movie. There's also something to be said for not simply trying to exactly copy Marvel. Marvel already did that.
SnakeDoc
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thenammagazine
Super Freak
Justice League isn't the "tentpole" of their comic book releases. And honestly, I don't see a "jump off" JLA making near enough to justify the large budget it would need for them to pull it off. And don't forget, as it stands now, WB has a pisspoor track record when it comes to DC movies. Nolan's Batman is the only series that's really shined. Overall, it would be a very poor business decision.
SnakeDoctor
Super Freak
I don't see why WB's "pisspoor track record" would make you think they'd do any better with movies about individual downballot DC characters than you think they would starting with a JL movie.
If their track-record is the problem ... then making any DC movie would be a poor business decision.
A well-done Justice League movie could make plenty. A poorly done JL movie won't do any better than a poorly done Green Lantern movie did. Then again, neither would a poorly done Flash or Hawkman movie. If we're assuming they can make a good movie, then following MOS and the Batman-reboot with a Justice League movie is a good way to draw interest to the larger DC Universe. If we're assuming they can't make a good movie ... then they're better off not.
SnakeDoc
If their track-record is the problem ... then making any DC movie would be a poor business decision.
A well-done Justice League movie could make plenty. A poorly done JL movie won't do any better than a poorly done Green Lantern movie did. Then again, neither would a poorly done Flash or Hawkman movie. If we're assuming they can make a good movie, then following MOS and the Batman-reboot with a Justice League movie is a good way to draw interest to the larger DC Universe. If we're assuming they can't make a good movie ... then they're better off not.
SnakeDoc
thenammagazine
Super Freak
Poorly done individual movies won't affect a JLA picture (we saw this with Marvel). However, a poorly done JLA picture would potentially effect individual movies and effectively kill potential franchises. My point still stands though. We know WB has pulled this off the shelf based on the phenomenal success of Avengers and I've no doubt they'd expect it to perform like Avengers. They simply won't get that without a similar build-up, and without the emotional investment moviegoers had in the characters in Avengers. It's putting the carriage before the horse.
SnakeDoctor
Super Freak
Man of Steel and the Batman reboot may be all the build-up they need for an effective Justice League movie.
I think Avengers would've worked just as well if it had been preceded only by Thor and the first Iron Man movie. Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, and Captain America didn't contribute significantly to the enjoyment of Avengers. Cap could've just as easily been a prequel done after the Avengers; Hulk was good but not particularly necessary for Avengers (didn't even have the same Bruce Banner) ... and I didn't even see Iron Man 2.
SnakeDoc
I think Avengers would've worked just as well if it had been preceded only by Thor and the first Iron Man movie. Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, and Captain America didn't contribute significantly to the enjoyment of Avengers. Cap could've just as easily been a prequel done after the Avengers; Hulk was good but not particularly necessary for Avengers (didn't even have the same Bruce Banner) ... and I didn't even see Iron Man 2.
SnakeDoc
RT scores:
Iron Man: 94%
Iron Man 2: 74%
Captain America: 79%
Thor: 77%
Incredible Hulk: 67%
None of those were poorly done.
Green Lantern: 27%
thenammagazine
Super Freak
Iron Man 2 and Incredible Hulk disagree. And Green Lantern pulled in $238mil at the box office (hardly a flop from a ticket sales standpoint). I'm speaking from a studio perspective.
Radagaster
Trolling the Woods
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They had good RT scores because they were built up well (read: the hype was well-placed).
Personally, WB needs to first come up with an evangelist like what Marvel did for their movies. Everything went through a few choice people for decision-making. The evangelist would know when to lay the seeds.
After they hire the evangelist, they then need to hire the correct directors AND writers for the right combo. The hiring of the actors to commit to the long-term deal (to include a JLA movie) would then be the icing.
Thereafter, it's just execute, and reap the rewards. The GL movie wasn't bad. Had it had the same sown seeds that any of the Marvel individual superheroes experienced, it would have raked in more.
Another good formula that Marvel did was to throw in some lesser characters into the bigger superhero movies (ie, they intro'd Hawkeye in Thor). The same could be done with Green Arrow, Black Canary, maybe Flash. For the record, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman can be made into epic movies because of the backstories they both have. They're no different than Thor's backstory in terms of it's richness.
The Mike
In the Pixels
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As other sites have been noting, Snyder is operating under the Nolan vacuum where he has even been quoted as saying that his Superman would be different than a Justice League Man of Steel.
This means that either A: WB will simply use one of their contractual sequel clauses on Cavill and just shoehorn him in or B: Reinvent the character with yet another actor.
Either way it means that Man of Steel isn't being based on a Justice League film and isn't going to directly connect so there goes the "Iron Man" footing.
They are rushing to get Flash, Wonder Woman on screen, the new Batman. If they don't use Cavill's Superman and Reynolds' GL then there are two more heroes to deal with. Reynolds' role as Hal may be saved simply for the ease of using something established.
What are seeing is major backpedaling and major fumbling in the eleventh hour and so I have a feeling that something is going give. The actors hired for JL will have to be dovetailed into their own projects currently working OR the GL team working on Flash and Wonder Woman now, and Goyer who is scripting the new Batman reboot will have to put something together to get them done and then jump into a JL film if WB wants their current plan of action.
This means that either A: WB will simply use one of their contractual sequel clauses on Cavill and just shoehorn him in or B: Reinvent the character with yet another actor.
Either way it means that Man of Steel isn't being based on a Justice League film and isn't going to directly connect so there goes the "Iron Man" footing.
They are rushing to get Flash, Wonder Woman on screen, the new Batman. If they don't use Cavill's Superman and Reynolds' GL then there are two more heroes to deal with. Reynolds' role as Hal may be saved simply for the ease of using something established.
What are seeing is major backpedaling and major fumbling in the eleventh hour and so I have a feeling that something is going give. The actors hired for JL will have to be dovetailed into their own projects currently working OR the GL team working on Flash and Wonder Woman now, and Goyer who is scripting the new Batman reboot will have to put something together to get them done and then jump into a JL film if WB wants their current plan of action.
You said "poorly done" movies, not "poorly performing" ones. Though if you glance at Box Office Mojo, Thor made $450 million worldwide and Cap made $370 million, while GL made $220 million, while costing about $50 more to make than those other films.
And again, you can say this movie sucked or didn't, but the aggregate critical consensus was that each recent Marvel Studios picture was significantly better than average, including Hulk.
If you say so.
devilof76
Super Freak
Nolan Justice League, please. 
SnakeDoctor
Super Freak
Nolan seems as good a man as any to put at the helm. He won't want to direct ... but just being involved would help.
SnakeDoc
SnakeDoc
devilof76
Super Freak
At this point, it feels like he's the only person who could make what they have work. Not sure how to resucitate Green Lantern, but if Nam is right about sub-par movies for participating characters not effecting the team movie, then it could happen. Especially given the near equal status of Cap, Iron Man, Hulk and Thor. The DC equivalent is the Trinity. Get those three right and the core of a JLA film is set. Green Lantern, Flash or Martian Manhunter can be dealt with like Black Widow, etc.
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