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Huh. I guess so. Woke is always used in a negative way so I thought putting anti in front of it makes it positive lol. I’ve never actually bothered looking up the definition of the word woke, I always thought it meant raising awareness for social issues, in a forced way. But in hindsight that last part is not part of the definition just something I made up myself. So yes you’re right. ND is woke, but the good kind of woke. In my opinion atleast.
It's always messy defining words which are highly subjective. Also, a lot of people seem to use it differently to what Google says its definition is, which is raising awareness. about social injustice. To me, it's not about that, it's about pushing libtard agenda, in a way that feels inorganic and contrived. For example, including something in a game that no matter how much I think about it, I fail to see how it benefits the game itself.

Whether that's a good or bad thing, it turns to the facts and circumstances around each individual case. Just because something is "woke" or isn't, does not, by itself, define if a game is good or bad, but I understand being put off with it at times.

I had no issues like that with TLOU 2.
 
I know my English is quite advanced but it’s not my native tongue and I still struggle to express myself when it comes to complicated topics like these. Like my words just fall short of what I’m trying to say and I sound quite snobbish at times from the way it’s worded and I actually do realise that 😅. I wish my rants could be better worded and more profound but I’m just not at that level yet. Maybe I should join a debate club
 
I'm amused by the reaction to Abby after 4 years.

Joel deserved to die for what he did. I loved his character but it's a harsh world and the fact that he survived for as long as he did was a miracle. Someone was always out there, ready to kill him.
This is a very common response I see from fans of the games and I just don't buy it at all. Be warned, huge essay incoming.

The first game made it clear that Joel was someone who survived as long as he did due to luck and his own diligence. This was cemented when Joel decides to kill Marlene, specifically stating she would come after him and Ellie if he let her live; he knew the danger of leaving loose ends. Another cool insight into his thoughts is when he reads an anti-government militia note in Pittsburgh and thinks to himself "with that kind of thinking no one wins". In the first game, he was quite scared in going beyond the QZ, not due to cowardice, but due to prudence and caution as he "knew" what was out there. When he meets Henry and Sam, it's also interesting that when Henry asks for their names (after overhearing Ellie call out Joel) Ellie quickly responds and Joel looks like a bit peeved for a second, quickly shrugs it off and asks Henry "how many are with you?". It's a small detail, but again, it shows just how switched on and on-guard he was. He was no simpleton bumbling his way through the wilderness.

The point I'm making is, the game does a decent job at establishing that Joel has got experience under his belt. Is it "miraculous" that he survived for so long? Possibly. But is that the sole cause of his survival? Absolutely not. Saying that Joel should have died because he deserved it doesn't really say much because that feels like it goes against the themes both the first and second games.

I mean, isn't TLOU 2 supposed to be about the power of forgiveness, cycle of revenge all that stuff? Why use a black-and-white justification of "karma" as a way to justify that a character should have died, in a franchise which actively pushes the theme of its characters being multi-faceted and layered? Also, it doesn't make sense when you looked at the facts surrounding Joel's character (like the ones I mentioned), to a reasonable person who had played the first game, Joel dying the way he did was not likely.

This leads into my problems with TLOU 2 in general. I have tried revisiting this game multiple times, with an "open-mind" and whatnot, yet my experience and outlook is the same. If you got 3 hours to spare, I would recommend watching MacabreStorytelling's video on the second game, it perfectly encapsulates my own thoughts.

But to summarise the video, the main problem with the game, which is what makes it so divisive, is the way it approaches its storytelling. It's almost completely antithetical to the first game. It is larger in scale, it focuses on a larger number of characters and tells a more "ambitious" story by doing so. But most importantly, the biggest difference is that the first game creates its plot and story around its two main characters, whereas the second uses its characters as if they were "cogs in a machine"; they are used to tell a story and consequently, in service of a broader theme. Go back to 2014-2015 when people only knew of TLOU 1, and just look at the main reason people frequently cited why they loved the first game. Macabre goes over the specific reasons and examples of this in his video.

A lot of people drew comparisons between works like Cormac McCarthy's "The Road", observing that Joel and Ellie were presented as the heart and soul of the first game. That's exactly what I felt when I played the game on launch day in 2013. The game focuses on creating a good story about its characters first and foremost, and through them, it slowly reveals its myriad of themes and messages to you. It's why it's so loved, despite the world being so interesting in its own right, by focusing on just two people in that dangerous, yet beautiful world, there's this cool juxtaposition between the large world filled with all kinds of people and things, and the more personal story of the characters we follow in the game.

The approach the second game takes can be viewed as bold and commendable, but also risky, actively going against the design philosophy of the first. But we don't call it a "risk" for no reason, and in my eyes, the game flops hard by doing so, though I can see why it would succeed in the eyes of others.
I know people meme on the "haters" saying "you just mad cos your favourite character died", but the irony is, many of these people (not all of course) fail to understand the significance of Joel as a character. Like I said, he was part of the heart and soul of the franchise in the first game. And people knew this even if they can't express it, because let's face it, is your average person going to spent hours contemplating on a videogame they played and write long essays that dissect the game's strengths and weaknesses?

I could write more but I will stop as I've waffled on for long enough.

Ultimately, the second game fails to justify its existence to me. It's certainly not the worst game ever made, and in fact, it's a highly competent 3rd person OTS action-adventure game with some cool level design and setpieces. But seeing just how PERFECT the first game was, especially its ending, I was always skeptical of a sequel and to some level, I can respect the risk it took. But overall, it just came across as unnecessary.
 
I know my English is quite advanced but it’s not my native tongue and I still struggle to express myself when it comes to complicated topics like these. Like my words just fall short of what I’m trying to say and I sound quite snobbish at times from the way it’s worded and I actually do realise that 😅. I wish my rants could be better worded and more profound but I’m just not at that level yet. Maybe I should join a debate club
Don't sweat it man, it's definitely a skill and challenge to write clearly, articulately without making things complicating but expressing all your points. I should know, I'm a lawyer. It's my job to talk out of my ass lol.
 
In order not to give someone the excuse to shut this thread down or start gutting it, it's best not to delve too deep into some of 'controversial' elements surrounding TLOU2.

The fact that TLOU2 is so divisive is indicative of the complexity of the characters. It's above and beyond what many would imagine when they think of as a 'video game'. It's so much more, and to me both have always been more movie/series than game.

The impact the divisiveness has for us as collectors is the confidence figure producers have in making certain characters.

Reading comments in Facebook TLOU groups it's a miracle Toys Era had the confidence to produce a Bella Ramsey Ellie, though the driving force was a Pedro Pascal Joel, and Ellie being inseparable from Joel.

For me Abby is inseparable from Ellie in TLOU2. They're the two halves that push the central story. Lev is also inseparable from Abby. Just as Ellie changes Joel and brings him back into the world, and gives him something to care about again, Lev brings out the softer, caring side of Abby.

The suggested Abby/Lev double pack makes sense thematically, and economically as explained before.

Yet the divisiveness over Abby still means it's a lot less likely than a LIM TLOU2 Joel and Ellie.
 
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I keeping reading stuff like Joel deserves to die and stuff... yeah he's not innocent by any means.

But what about characters like Tomb raider or Nathan Drake for example? who has killed literally thousands and even makes cheeky jokes while doing it 😅 . Don't they deserve it too? I'm sure they've killed many brothers, fathers and husbands etc.

I know its just a game at the end of the day, but I felt Naughty dog could've handled the story differently while keeping Joel alive. That was the main complaint and why the audience score was so harsh and still is on the Metacritic score o_O
 
I keeping reading stuff like Joel deserves to die and stuff... yeah he's not innocent by any means.

But what about characters like Tomb raider or Nathan Drake for example? who has killed literally thousands and even makes cheeky jokes while doing it 😅 . Don't they deserve it too? I'm sure they've killed many brothers, fathers and husbands etc.

I know its just a game at the end of the day, but I felt Naughty dog could've handled the story differently while keeping Joel alive. That was the main complaint and why the audience score was so harsh and still is on the Metacritic score o_O
Partly correct. It was reviewbombed because of the leaks. I still remember the rumours about Joels death and Abby being the trans character which wasnt even true and it seemed like that were the main reasons why it got downvoted to hell. But its true you cant deny how divisive the story is.

Tomb raider and Uncharted have an entirely different tone. Less serious and grounded than the last of us universe. In those games badguys are just bad and there’s nothing to them. Last of us was always about morals and people doing terrible stuff to survive.
 
As a side, I remember Neil Druckmann said in an interview that he was influenced by Metal Gear Solid 2 for the storyline of TLOU 2. MGS 2 is still probably the most divisive video game for a fanbase ever released (it was reported that Hideo Kojima received death threats in the mail back in 2001). But, the backlash against TLOU 2 seemed significantly worse in some ways, though...

That said, Asta raised a good point about how Abby's reception would deter any company from releasing a figure of her. Joel and Ellie are just obvious choices by comparison.
 
I sold my original set of Iminime Joel and Ellie a few years ago. Kinda wish I hadn’t but that’s collecting for you. I’m glad to see this is happening so I can have the proper head sculpts from the game personalities. It will be a nice set to display next to the two figures from the HBO series. Looking forward to them.

On another note: Asta you must have an incredibly large collection of figures to display. Your love of so many different kinds of genres would lead me to believe that. You are all over the place here talking about so many different characters… Cheers~and a
Brand New Cherry Flavor to you!!

Were those Iminme TLOU figures released about a decade ago?

I remember wanting those Iminime Joel/Ellie figures so bad and was tempted to splurge several times (over a grand?) but never caved.

This was before I seriously got into collecting 1:6 or Hot Toys in general - I miss having all that shelf space and less box clutter from those simpler times. :lol

Luckily, there's been a proliferation of TLOU collectibles (licensed & unlicensed) over the past few years so Last of Us fans have so many options now - everything from the Prime 1 statue (1:4?) down to 3rd party 1:6 & 1:12 figures.
 
Were those Iminme TLOU figures released about a decade ago?
Yes, that’s a pretty good estimate on time. It wasn’t too long after the PS3 release which was 2013. The figures showed up not too long afterwards. They were my grails for a while but after as many years we change our minds and grow into different things. I’m glad I had them and don’t have any regrets selling them. Especially with all the figures released since then.
 
This is a very common response I see from fans of the games and I just don't buy it at all. Be warned, huge essay incoming.

The first game made it clear that Joel was someone who survived as long as he did due to luck and his own diligence. This was cemented when Joel decides to kill Marlene, specifically stating she would come after him and Ellie if he let her live; he knew the danger of leaving loose ends. Another cool insight into his thoughts is when he reads an anti-government militia note in Pittsburgh and thinks to himself "with that kind of thinking no one wins". In the first game, he was quite scared in going beyond the QZ, not due to cowardice, but due to prudence and caution as he "knew" what was out there. When he meets Henry and Sam, it's also interesting that when Henry asks for their names (after overhearing Ellie call out Joel) Ellie quickly responds and Joel looks like a bit peeved for a second, quickly shrugs it off and asks Henry "how many are with you?". It's a small detail, but again, it shows just how switched on and on-guard he was. He was no simpleton bumbling his way through the wilderness.

The point I'm making is, the game does a decent job at establishing that Joel has got experience under his belt. Is it "miraculous" that he survived for so long? Possibly. But is that the sole cause of his survival? Absolutely not. Saying that Joel should have died because he deserved it doesn't really say much because that feels like it goes against the themes both the first and second games.

I mean, isn't TLOU 2 supposed to be about the power of forgiveness, cycle of revenge all that stuff? Why use a black-and-white justification of "karma" as a way to justify that a character should have died, in a franchise which actively pushes the theme of its characters being multi-faceted and layered? Also, it doesn't make sense when you looked at the facts surrounding Joel's character (like the ones I mentioned), to a reasonable person who had played the first game, Joel dying the way he did was not likely.

This leads into my problems with TLOU 2 in general. I have tried revisiting this game multiple times, with an "open-mind" and whatnot, yet my experience and outlook is the same. If you got 3 hours to spare, I would recommend watching MacabreStorytelling's video on the second game, it perfectly encapsulates my own thoughts.

But to summarise the video, the main problem with the game, which is what makes it so divisive, is the way it approaches its storytelling. It's almost completely antithetical to the first game. It is larger in scale, it focuses on a larger number of characters and tells a more "ambitious" story by doing so. But most importantly, the biggest difference is that the first game creates its plot and story around its two main characters, whereas the second uses its characters as if they were "cogs in a machine"; they are used to tell a story and consequently, in service of a broader theme. Go back to 2014-2015 when people only knew of TLOU 1, and just look at the main reason people frequently cited why they loved the first game. Macabre goes over the specific reasons and examples of this in his video.

A lot of people drew comparisons between works like Cormac McCarthy's "The Road", observing that Joel and Ellie were presented as the heart and soul of the first game. That's exactly what I felt when I played the game on launch day in 2013. The game focuses on creating a good story about its characters first and foremost, and through them, it slowly reveals its myriad of themes and messages to you. It's why it's so loved, despite the world being so interesting in its own right, by focusing on just two people in that dangerous, yet beautiful world, there's this cool juxtaposition between the large world filled with all kinds of people and things, and the more personal story of the characters we follow in the game.

The approach the second game takes can be viewed as bold and commendable, but also risky, actively going against the design philosophy of the first. But we don't call it a "risk" for no reason, and in my eyes, the game flops hard by doing so, though I can see why it would succeed in the eyes of others.
I know people meme on the "haters" saying "you just mad cos your favourite character died", but the irony is, many of these people (not all of course) fail to understand the significance of Joel as a character. Like I said, he was part of the heart and soul of the franchise in the first game. And people knew this even if they can't express it, because let's face it, is your average person going to spent hours contemplating on a videogame they played and write long essays that dissect the game's strengths and weaknesses?

I could write more but I will stop as I've waffled on for long enough.

Ultimately, the second game fails to justify its existence to me. It's certainly not the worst game ever made, and in fact, it's a highly competent 3rd person OTS action-adventure game with some cool level design and setpieces. But seeing just how PERFECT the first game was, especially its ending, I was always skeptical of a sequel and to some level, I can respect the risk it took. But overall, it just came across as unnecessary.
Damn this was a great read! Couldn’t have said it better!
 

I'm not really a fan of the show, but it was cool seeing some familiar locations.
I've also driven past the old hospital from S1 many times. I remember always thinking how cool it would be to shoot a horror movie in there.
If they can up the horror factor by at least 80%, then I'll probably enjoy season 2 a lot more. So much of what made the games so intense was missing from the series. Every time an action scene took place, it felt too rushed.
 
LIM Facebook page with 3 updates and basically 4 with the Last of Us soon comment. End times are upon us🤣 (joking) really hope those who have the Connor on order finally get it.
 
well looks like their nathan drake is releasing soon, final product images of the head look amazing! hopefully TLOU is around the corner
 
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