Making a Murderer Netflix series.

[WWEJedi]

What are everyone's thoughts on Brendan Dassey?

 

[wanderlai]

What are everyone's thoughts on Brendan Dassey?

He got railroaded by the system. That first public defender he had should be sitting in jail or have his license taken away. The guy working for the lawyer had him sign a paper, with only 2 options, both admitting guilt and then told him what to draw....sickening. Thats not even getting into the coercion tactics the investigators used on him.

 

[Matt S]

What are everyone's thoughts on Brendan Dassey?

He was a Patsy; cops did not seem to care who got in the way, as long as they got their guy - the uncle - at least - that is how it looks in the doc

 

[YoNoSe]

Somebody posted a link to Dassey's actual interview transcript. It plays out very differently from the heavily edited version on the show. He volunteers much more information than what is shown and the details are horrifying. I had to stop reading it.

Just to be clear, I think the police absolutely planted evidence and should be held accountable. But I don't believe the reason they did it was because of some old grudge against the family or because of his lawsuit (though I think that m,ay have led to a higher level of cooperation). I think they did it becuase they knew he murdered her and were afraid they didn't have the evidence to convict him.

But, again, that's just my half-assed speculation f\based on the show and some online research.

 

[FriendlySamurai]

this court case was pretty outrageous from beginning to end. Unbelievable. The way the sheriff framed him reminded me so much of the Franklin Scandal from the 80's... Actually several cases. Anybody interested should read The Franklin Scandal by Nick Bryant and Why Johnny Cant Come Home by Noreen Gosch- very similar. Two seperate sheriffs, working in conjunction with law enforcement and the FBI ran interference for a national, Washington-serving **** ring run out of Boys Town in Nebraska all the while persecuting the victims. In this case, the MPD ignored info from neighboring depts. Same thing happened to Noreen Gosch, her cops ignored offers to help search for her son from neighboring depts. The MPD seemed completely disinterested in going after the known sex offender Gregory Allen. Same thing happened in Nebraska. It makes me wonder if it was more about protecting Gregory Allen at the time than prosecuting Steve Avery. Teresa was murdered on Halloween, the Nebraska ring was accused of satanic practices. In the Avery case, the state actually openly threatened the defense. In Nebraska the Feds actually killed the lead investigator hired by the state senate. Its pretty much a lot of similarity and a wild guess on my part- then I get to the end of the documentary and turns out Ken Kratz is a creepy perv trying to force himself on his clients/defendents... wow. Its interesting to note that even in the Columbine shooting, the two shooters had an odd relationship with the sheriff, even drawing pictures of him raping them. I think if I remember correctly that when it came over dispatch, the officers said the shooters were "the sheriffs boys".

Whatever the case Im more convinced than ever that the higher ups in this country are a bunch of very sick individuals. I cant believe that even after all this caught on video, nothings being done.

 

[azurepred]

old thread, but I finally got some spare time to see this documentary. Some thoughts are that Dassey was not involved at all. I can't believe the stupid jurors couldn't see this kid was not very smart and was easily persuaded to make up things that the cops were pressuring him into saying. Not one strand of physical evidence even put the kid in the SUV, Trailer or garage. The confession was more then shady and cause the stick up his ass attorney had it out for him from the get go, it should have been inadmissible. The judges in both cases seemed clueless and biased as well.

With Avery, all the evidence just doesn't make sense. I haven't looked up more info about him outside of the show yet, but things just don't add up. It's just hard to peg him as a murderer. His only chance, as mentioned at the end is that those blood marks in the car be re-tested with modern technology. I forget who the bald guy was that was commenting off hand about this case throughout the show, but he was right on the money about everything. How is it that the police completely flipped over Avery's trailer and garage multiple times and all of a sudden, the Manitowoc department finds all this evidence out of nowhere, when they should not have been there in the first place because it was a conflict of interest.

It doesn't make any sense that Teresa's body had been in the SUV, but Avery killed her on site as suspected. The key makes no sense cause not even Teresa's DNA was on it. If she had indeed been shot by the "magic" bullet, there has to be blood somewhere no? It also makes no sense if Avery killed her, went through the trouble of burning her body and chopping her up, why he didn't crush her vehicle with the car crusher in his possession, along with destroying the key.

This was probably one of the most disturbing documentaries I've seen. Avery's lawyer is right. If you go to trial for anything in this country, good luck. The system is egregious at best and people with power are the most despicable humans in this country. That douche bag Kratz, how could anyone not see from the very beginning that this guy is the ultimate pos?

 

[spidermonkey]

I felt pretty much the same way about the whole thing. When it came out that's all the coworkers and I would discuss. They all had similar points as well. It was weird wanting to binge watch this but be so frustrated in the process. The lack of DNA evidence/ all of the "evidence" the local police found that should have been inadmissible, this case should have been dismissed. That's just Avery's case I can't get started on the other case lol. Also the only intelligent people in the whole doc were Avery's lawyers. Dassey's first lawyer should've gone to jail.

 

[azurepred]

yea, I haven't heard anyone that has seen this say they thought either guy was guilty, and imo, even though there is still a lot of doubt, at the very least, if I were in the situation, I would have been hung on the decision. Another thing that bugs me is that 7/10 of the jurors initially had Avery as not guilty. I can't fathom how all 7 of those got completely flipped, as the only juror we heard from was the one that got dismissed. After listening to that one juror, I have to imagine that many of them were at least as competent as him, so WTH happened? I binged the crap out of this show too, it was a very frustrating watch.

I really liked Avery's lawyers too. He defn got his money's worth, and they did all they could. You'd think that alone would have helped Avery a little more as it was easy to like them, and hate that POS Kratz.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I thought this was a new Batman v Superman thread...never mind.

 

[imthebestatwhatido]

After watching and reading more about the case here are my thoughts: he def killed that woman and the cops were so dirty at trying to make sure he was found guilty that it is embarrassing. Every time I saw those cops my skin crawled. He def killed that girl though.

 

[azurepred]

what evidence is there to lead you to believe that though? None of the circumstantial evidence even made sense.

 

[YoNoSe]

There are details that were purposely left out by the filmmakers. No "smoking gun" but enough to make me suspect that the police, at the very least, had plenty to tell themselves at night to sleep off their corrupt behavior.

 

[SwedishHeat]

what evidence is there to lead you to believe that though? None of the circumstantial evidence even made sense.

Just looking at some of the top Google results

-Avery called Auto Trader a few times to sell cars and requested that it be Hallbach that come out and take photos
-Hallbach told her boss that one time when she went over there, Avery answered the door wearing only a towel, and that she didn't want to go over there anymore.
-Avery called Hallbach three times, the day she went missing, twice using *67 to hide the caller ID
-Avery's DNA (likely from sweat) was on the hood latch on Hallbach's car
-while the cat killing was brought up in the documentary, what they didn't mention was the method, in that Avery doused it in oil and threw it in a fire
-Dassey told his mother that Avery molested him
-after being released from prison, Avery beat his fiancee and choked her until she lost consciousness.
-The 18 years he spent in prison the first time, six of those years were for the crime he was rightfully convicted of, the story early in the doc about him running around naked and threatening a woman at gunpoint, with the intent to rape her.

Most of the things they left out paints Avery as a very disturbed person and not the 'pathetic simpleton' that the doc painted him as.

 

[imthebestatwhatido]

Don't forget that he called auto trader and stated that she never came to the property asking where she was.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

Just looking at some of the top Google results

-Avery called Auto Trader a few times to sell cars and requested that it be Hallbach that come out and take photos
-Hallbach told her boss that one time when she went over there, Avery answered the door wearing only a towel, and that she didn't want to go over there anymore.
-Avery called Hallbach three times, the day she went missing, twice using *67 to hide the caller ID
-Avery's DNA (likely from sweat) was on the hood latch on Hallbach's car
-while the cat killing was brought up in the documentary, what they didn't mention was the method, in that Avery doused it in oil and threw it in a fire
-Dassey told his mother that Avery molested him
-after being released from prison, Avery beat his fiancee and choked her until she lost consciousness.
-The 18 years he spent in prison the first time, six of those years were for the crime he was rightfully convicted of, the story early in the doc about him running around naked and threatening a woman at gunpoint, with the intent to rape her.

Most of the things they left out paints Avery as a very disturbed person and not the 'pathetic simpleton' that the doc painted him as.

I'm not defending the horrible things Avery did to anyone else, but the guy can be creepy piece of **** without having murdered Hallbach. With the exception of the sweat on the door handle you mentioned, none of those things listed are evidence of him murdering Hallbach. The sweat could have come from him opening the door for her in his excitement to see her or walking her to her car when she was leaving. It's been awhile since I watched this, but I remember thinking that his brother was probably involved and the police wanted to get Avery so badly that they poorly managed to make sure the evidence they found pointed at Avery. One thing that really bugged me was the police officer calling in her car before the actual search for it. Then it was found very poorly hidden on Avery's property not far from the car crusher. Even someone who was panicking after killing someone would have thought to crush the car, especially since they had to drive past the damn thing. I'm looking forward to hearing what new evidence Avery's new lawyer has been able to dig up. Even if it's absolutely proven that Avery killed Hallbach, I'd like to finally get the full story.

 

[azurepred]

Just looking at some of the top Google results

-Avery called Auto Trader a few times to sell cars and requested that it be Hallbach that come out and take photos
-Hallbach told her boss that one time when she went over there, Avery answered the door wearing only a towel, and that she didn't want to go over there anymore.
-Avery called Hallbach three times, the day she went missing, twice using *67 to hide the caller ID
-Avery's DNA (likely from sweat) was on the hood latch on Hallbach's car
-while the cat killing was brought up in the documentary, what they didn't mention was the method, in that Avery doused it in oil and threw it in a fire
-Dassey told his mother that Avery molested him
-after being released from prison, Avery beat his fiancee and choked her until she lost consciousness.
-The 18 years he spent in prison the first time, six of those years were for the crime he was rightfully convicted of, the story early in the doc about him running around naked and threatening a woman at gunpoint, with the intent to rape her.

Most of the things they left out paints Avery as a very disturbed person and not the 'pathetic simpleton' that the doc painted him as.

I have read about these things before, and there are good explanations that refute a lot of these points. When it comes to Dassey, can you really believe anything the kid said? He was very troubled and extremely unintelligent. He only brought up the molestation accusations during this case. I'm also pretty sure the cat thing was mentioned specifically in the documentary. Sure, the guy deserved at least a few years for that, but not 18.

Where did you read he had the intent to rape the woman he put at gunpoint? That's completely made up. The woman was one of his family members. Even if all those things didn't have any explanation to them, like Zod said, it doesn't prove anything besides that he is a weird red neck.

 

[azurepred]

I'm not defending the horrible things Avery did to anyone else, but the guy can be creepy piece of **** without having murdered Hallbach. With the exception of the sweat on the door handle you mentioned, none of those things listed are evidence of him murdering Hallbach. The sweat could have come from him opening the door for her in his excitement to see her or walking her to her car when she was leaving. It's been awhile since I watched this, but I remember thinking that his brother was probably involved and the police wanted to get Avery so badly that they poorly managed to make sure the evidence they found pointed at Avery. One thing that really bugged me was the police officer calling in her car before the actual search for it. Then it was found very poorly hidden on Avery's property not far from the car crusher. Even someone who was panicking after killing someone would have thought to crush the car, especially since they had to drive past the damn thing. I'm looking forward to hearing what new evidence Avery's new lawyer has been able to dig up. Even if it's absolutely proven that Avery killed Hallbach, I'd like to finally get the full story.

There were some interesting theories with some that point to those two family members as being very likely suspects. After all, their only alibi was each other and they had seen Halbach on that day. Besides the obvious that police found no evidence of blood or DNA in Avery's home or garage, the other big one that stood out to me the most was that her blood was found in the back of her own Rav. Avery would 've had to follow her, kill her somewhere else, put the body in the Rav and take it back to his place to burn the body. Makes no sense.

 

[YoNoSe]

I don't believe there's enough evidence to convict him, hence the police manipulating the evidence. However, just as the suspect calling the victim doesn't prove he murdered her, the police planting evidence doesn't prove her DIDN'T do it.

The only thing that's clear to me is that there are details we, the TV audience, don't know. But my gut tells me they got the right guy for the wrong reasons.

Even before I googled anything additional the moment I started to suspect him was in the doc. When he got convicted one of his lawyers says, on camera, "I hope he did it." Which makes me feel like their primary goal was fighting the railroading the police dept. was engaged in and that even they (or at least he) were not convinced they were defending an innocent person.

 

[azurepred]

I think you misinterpreted what he said, as I remember one or both specifically saying they believed he was innocent. They "hope he did it" because of the obvious failure of the whole justice system to come up with a fair case against Avery. I never got a sense from either one of them that they thought they were defending a guilty person.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

I think you misinterpreted what he said, as I remember one or both specifically saying they believed he was innocent. They "hope he did it" because of the obvious failure of the whole justice system to come up with a fair case against Avery. I never got a sense from either one of them that they thought they were defending a guilty person.

That's how I took it as well. Not that they thought he was guilty but that the justice system failed Avery not once, but twice.