Marvel's Iron Fist: The Netflix Series

[Captain Clown]

 

[karamazov80]

........ Glad I'm not the only one feeling this way. The fans on Rotten Tomatoes that have pushed this to an 85% have either not actually watched it yet and want to blast the critics, or have some serious fanboy goggles on.. Or are all the Millennials with that attitude that "something is better than nothing", even when they know it sucks.

So it sucks terribly, and anyone who likes it is a fool, because Iron Fist is not as good a fighter as he should be?

 

[loki2371]

So it sucks terribly, and anyone who likes it is a fool, because Iron Fist is not as good a fighter as he should be?

I did say I was glad I wasn't the only one feeling this way. And nowhere did I insult anyone for liking it. If you like it, all the more power too you. Watch it again and again and again. And why did you single me out, yet not the people who agreed with me??

For me though, there's always something of a disconnect when critics give it a 16% and fans an 85%. Especially since many of these critics are the same that enjoyed the previous Marvel Netflix shows, as did I (mostly Daredevil). That's too big a disparage to feel people are being honest. I didn't want to dislike this, I wanted to like it. I should be able to say I was disappointed. People like to continue to defend themselves even after being proven wrong. It's human nature. Many many people never admit they were wrong about something. My best friend and best man at my wedding is a huge Godzilla fan. So was I when I was 10. I watch them today and just laugh at how bad they are. We joke all the time. He loves it. It's his opinion. I watch them still today cause my 11 year old son loves them too. I wanted him to be able to enjoy Godzilla just as I did as a kid.

As far as the Millennials comment, that was more of a joke. There are many reviews and written posts from fans who defend things that are bad and justify it as they would rather watch a terrible Movie/TV show than not have one to watch at all.

 

[Victοr]

For the record, I was only talking about Danny's skills. I have my problems with the show, but I'm not done yet, so I'll reserve judgement. But NF IF is not 616 or even 1610 IF, not by a longshot. Which is to be expected, I guess, but so far, I haven't felt that he's this "ultimate weapon"...

 

[chewblacca]

That fight in the truck was long and drawn out waaaay too much. I was watching it thinking, Daredevil would have beaten this guy down a long time ago.

 

[karamazov80]

I did say I was glad I wasn't the only one feeling this way. And nowhere did I insult anyone for liking it. If you like it, all the more power too you.

It's your prerogative to feel otherwise, but the only allowances you gave for anyone liking this was that they were delusional or had low expectations. But in any case, I was asking more about the fighting than anything else, as that is the only issue you are focusing on. I think others acknowledge the fighting isn't great, but still like it or, at least, can understand why others do.

 

[loki2371]

It's your prerogative to feel otherwise, but the only allowances you gave for anyone liking this was that they were delusional or had low expectations. But in any case, I was asking more about the fighting than anything else, as that is the only issue you are focusing on. I think others acknowledge the fighting isn't great, but still like it or, at least, can understand why others do.

If you are referring to my comment about "fanboy goggles", then I guess that struck a nerve with you?

I am first and foremost a Silver Surfer fan (Thor 2nd). I own nearly every comic he has ever appeared in from the Silver Age and up until the year 2000 when I stopped collecting comic books. Many may say he is a very cheesy character. That doesn't bother me. I am still to this day a "giddy fanboy" for having gotten to see him onscreen in Fox's "Fantastic Four : Rise Of The Silver Surfer", and for having an animated cartoon also put out by Fox. The movie was terrible and the cartoon was terrible and I never feel the urge to defend them or try to give them any positive remarks. I can be still be a fan and dislike something openly about that which I enjoy. He was handled better than I thought he would be. He was probably the strongest part of that movie. Since Fox refuses to acknowledge they don't know how to handle the FF and refuse to give Marvel back the rights to these characters, I have to live with and come to terms that that may be the only chance I'll ever get to see my favorite comic character on screen. So I take the good with the bad.

I can give many more a reason as to why I don't like Iron Fist. But since at it's heart, Iron Fist is a Martial Artist and is supposed to be one of the "best and most powerful Martial Artists in the Marvel Universe", I felt that was the strongest negative aspect to go after. If at it's heart it succeeded, I may have been able to forego it's many other shortcomings. But since the fight scenes are not good, at all, and the portrayal of Danny Rand is very off, I have a problem looking past it's other issues as well.

 

[amvmm]

Going for the 9th episode. Very uninspired show so far and feels like a rushed production to me.

 

[nexus]

Finally and painfully finished the season. Talk about a lost opportunity. I was looking forward to Iron Fist second only to Daredevil. Unfortunately, the series is simply terrible. It is horribly written and directed and somehow feels like it was made on a shoestring budget. It's almost as if the writer's research involved looking at a couple of comic covers and reading a one-page synopsis. Practically all of mysticism was chucked out the window and the K'un Lun scenes looked to be filmed on small sound stages and fan film level CGI. Which is surprising given that Marvel recently gave us Doctor Strange. If anything Iron Fist should have been able to take its cues from there. Instead there was no sweeping vistas of a hidden magical land, no mystical monastery, no monks performing amazing feats and no dragon. I think there were only two or three monks ever shown. The story went all over the place and it seemed like they didn't know what story they wanted to tell -- the corporate boardroom drama, the dysfunctional Meachum family, the revenge story, the two Hand factions, Colleen's cage fighting, etc. Part of the problem stems from Netflix's 13-episode seasons, which really should be cut down to 10 or even 8 so that the storytelling can be more crisp. Even Daredevil felt too long to me, and both Luke Cage and Jessica Jones could have definitely been trimmed by 3 episodes. But Iron Fist was worst of all. Then there was the casting and the acting. This was a bit tough for me, because I grew of reading Iron Fist as a white dude and I think Finn Jones has a certain earnest charisma, but he was woefully miscast. I really think the producers should have listened to the concerns/complaints and cast an Asian or half Asian actor as Danny. I was reading where they had come close to casting a half Chinese actor named Lewis Tan which might have worked better. But there are plenty of talented young Asian actors in Hollywood and I'm sure they could have found a star. Heck if he were half Asian, they could have even given him blonde hair and explained it as a genetic trait from his father. Surely they couldn't be thinking that an an Asian actor wouldn't be bankable when you consider names like Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li and Donnie Yen. Also they would have probably picked up a much more convincing or accomplished martial artist. I've studied Tae Kwon Do, Mu Duk Kwan and Shotokan and Jones clearly looked out of his element--basically like an actor that has been crash training for 6 or 7 months for a role. Again you can see that Jones is really trying, and he is likable, but he is just not capable to carrying a series. The martial arts was weakly and unevenly written. Sometimes Danny would wade though multiple fighters and other times he would have difficulty with one person. He could leap 15 feet up over a car, and then have someone sneak up behind him. The iron fist effect was okay although you want to see the smoldering energy trail as opposed to just the glowing fist. Not to mention it seemed both limited and underpowered. He could light it up for a second, smash something and have to "recharge" so it comes across more like a gimmick. They did mention that he was still learning, and he was referred to a couple of times as the "worst iron fist ever". However, even the footage of the old iron fist was just a guy with two glowing fists beating up a bunch of soldiers. I think the iron fist at full power should be able to knock down the Hulk. While Finn Jones was a terrible Danny Rand, the supporting cast was not much better. The Meachums were given way too much story time. Jessica Henwick was okay and quite attractive, but I tend to think of Colleen Wing as being more graceful and acrobatic like a cross between a ballerina and a ninja, as opposed to a tough girl cage fighter. But the worst casting by far was Davos. Wrong ethnicity, height, build and characterization. That was just mind boggling. I cannot imagine him returning as

Spoiler

Steel Serpent.

Actually the only character I liked was Madame Gao. She was a lot of fun to watch. Claire is also good, but she was shoehorned into the story.

But on top of everything

Spoiler

they failed to give him his costume. That I just completely did not understand. They know the fans wanted it. They gave Daredevil a costume. They have a pretty good Punisher. Luke Cage and Jessica Jones don't have costumes, but Iron Fist certainly does. To say they could not figure it out is just lazy. They could have easily tied in the design to something ceremonial. Had they handled the Danny Rand part right, the justification for an Iron Fist donning the mask would have been to keep his very public identity secret.

In many respects this seems like the kind of low budget Iron Fist series that would have been produced in the early 2000s after Blade and X-Men but prior to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I had hoped the early reviews were wrong, which is why I trudged through the entire series. But for me this was just a total failure, a huge miss and the weakest outing. I don't know if The Defenders can salvage Iron Fist. If there is to be a season 2, they need to fire the show runner and all the writers, reimagine the series, rework the visuals, recast where they can (Davos for certain), work with Finn on the characterization of the role, and amp up the mysticism big time.

note: added spoiler tags just in case.

 

[YoNoSe]

Finally and painfully finished the season. Talk about a lost opportunity. I was looking forward to Iron Fist second only to Daredevil. Unfortunately, the series is simply terrible. It is horribly written and directed and somehow feels like it was made on a shoestring budget. It's almost as if the writer's research involved looking at a couple of comic covers and reading a one-page synopsis. Practically all of mysticism was chucked out the window and the K'un Lun scenes looked to be filmed on small sound stages and fan film level CGI. Which is surprising given that Marvel recently gave us Doctor Strange. If anything Iron Fist should have been able to take its cues from there. Instead there was no sweeping vistas of a hidden magical land, no mystical monastery, no monks performing amazing feats and no dragon. I think there were only two or three monks ever shown. The story went all over the place and it seemed like they didn't know what story they wanted to tell -- the corporate boardroom drama, the dysfunctional Meachum family, the revenge story, the two Hand factions, Colleen's cage fighting, etc. Part of the problem stems from Netflix's 13-episode seasons, which really should be cut down to 10 or even 8 so that the storytelling can be more crisp. Even Daredevil felt too long to me, and both Luke Cage and Jessica Jones could have definitely been trimmed by 3 episodes. But Iron Fist was worst of all. Then there was the casting and the acting. This was a bit tough for me, because I grew of reading Iron Fist as a white dude and I think Finn Jones has a certain earnest charisma, but he was woefully miscast. I really think the producers should have listened to the concerns/complaints and cast an Asian or half Asian actor as Danny. I was reading where they had come close to casting a half Chinese actor named Lewis Tan which might have worked better. But there are plenty of talented young Asian actors in Hollywood and I'm sure they could have found a star. Heck if he were half Asian, they could have even given him blonde hair and explained it as a genetic trait from his father. Surely they couldn't be thinking that an an Asian actor wouldn't be bankable when you consider names like Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li and Donnie Yen. Also they would have probably picked up a much more convincing or accomplished martial artist. I've studied Tae Kwon Do, Mu Duk Kwan and Shotokan and Jones clearly looked out of his element--basically like an actor that has been crash training for 6 or 7 months for a role. Again you can see that Jones is really trying, and he is likable, but he is just not capable to carrying a series. The martial arts was weakly and unevenly written. Sometimes Danny would wade though multiple fighters and other times he would have difficulty with one person. He could leap 15 feet up over a car, and then have someone sneak up behind him. The iron fist effect was okay although you want to see the smoldering energy trail as opposed to just the glowing fist. Not to mention it seemed both limited and underpowered. He could light it up for a second, smash something and have to "recharge" so it comes across more like a gimmick. They did mention that he was still learning, and he was referred to a couple of times as the "worst iron fist ever". However, even the footage of the old iron fist was just a guy with two glowing fists beating up a bunch of soldiers. I think the iron fist at full power should be able to knock down the Hulk. While Finn Jones was a terrible Danny Rand, the supporting cast was not much better. The Meachums were given way too much story time. Jessica Henwick was okay and quite attractive, but I tend to think of Colleen Wing as being more graceful and acrobatic like a cross between a ballerina and a ninja, as opposed to a tough girl cage fighter. But the worst casting by far was Davos. Wrong ethnicity, height, build and characterization. That was just mind boggling. I cannot imagine him returning as

Spoiler

Steel Serpent.

Actually the only character I liked was Madame Gao. She was a lot of fun to watch. Claire is also good, but she was shoehorned into the story.

But on top of everything

Spoiler

they failed to give him his costume. That I just completely did not understand. They know the fans wanted it. They gave Daredevil a costume. They have a pretty good Punisher. Luke Cage and Jessica Jones don't have costumes, but Iron Fist certainly does. To say they could not figure it out is just lazy. They could have easily tied in the design to something ceremonial. Had they handled the Danny Rand part right, the justification for an Iron Fist donning the mask would have been to keep his very public identity secret.

In many respects this seems like the kind of low budget Iron Fist series that would have been produced in the early 2000s after Blade and X-Men but prior to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I had hoped the early reviews were wrong, which is why I trudged through the entire series. But for me this was just a total failure, a huge miss and the weakest outing. I don't know if The Defenders can salvage Iron Fist. If there is to be a season 2, they need to fire the show runner and all the writers, reimagine the series, rework the visuals, recast where they can (Davos for certain), work with Finn on the characterization of the role, and amp up the mysticism big time.

 

[chewblacca]

Good analysis, Nexo and I agree with a lot of it. This series could have been so much better. I think the production needed some more time.

 

[316what]

TLDR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sifu74]

Fire the director, writers and fight choreographers for season 2 or it will be just as bad as season 1.

 

[FirstPick]

Screw season two. Give us Heroes For Hire with Cage and Fist.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[meanstreak]

I wouldn't mind if they recast the lead role as well

 

[loki2371]

Finally and painfully finished the season. Talk about a lost opportunity..........

.....

I agree with basically everything you said... i just didn't have it in me to go through all the bad. So I just focused on the fighting and Iron Fist's Martial prowess as the forefront to the problems this series had/has. If they had at least gotten that (the fighting choreography) down, like you said better showcased his power with the trail and lasting longer than merely a few seconds of a glowing fist, and actually gave him some sort of disguise/costume maybe I could've over looked the many other problems and found some enjoyment from this... But alas... I'm stalled at episode 8 and struggling if I want to bother to continue watching (I'm sure I will)....

 

[Victοr]

Orson Randall gets a costume in that B&W clip, but noooo, Danny can't...

Spoiler

 

[EVILFACE]

Finished, overall liked it but man the filler, so much filler. The internal turmoil over Rand coperation, who cares? When the odd looked overwhelming, by didn't Rosario run to her buddy Daredevil for help? And Papa Meachum being able to beat up the Iron Fist? Was like watching James Caan beat up Arnold Schwarzenegger at the end of Eraser.

Hope defenders is tighter...and fist wears his bandanna.

 

[jye4ever]

Finished it.

Overall liked it.

I'll give it to the show for keeping me engaged until the finale.

Good:

Kept me engaged, not boring.

Acting was superb from almost everyone but especially from Ward and Gao.

Some of the fights were good.

Palpable tension.

I'm ok with Finn as Fist.

Fist's internal conflicts and struggles wasn't confusing for me.

Kung Fu is always fun.

Claire's Wolverine claws!

Production design didn't bother me, I go into these shows knowing that the budgets are not the same as an MCU movie. They actually do alot with what they have. I appreciate the NYC shot elements. The rain battle was actually a nice touch in Iron Fist.



Unfortunate (I don't want to label as bad):

I'm split on the filler drama.

Yes the 13 episode curse was in full swing here, one wouldn't be wrong saying that this was the worst one so far.

If the payoff at the end didn't require any of that drama then it becomes filler drama and boy was there alot in this one.

But this is where i'm split because the filler drama goes beyond just establishing characters it allows for a full 3 dimensional person to be created that otherwise would've been short changed with fewer episodes.

The filler drama kept me engaged but if the show doesn't land during its climax then yes I begin questioning if all that filler drama was worth my investment.

The Hand, what happened to them from DD to this one lol.

Bizarre handling of The Hand, I thought Bakuto was good but the organization itself felt off. Where was the zombie asian dude from DD.

No costume for Iron Fist but I guess he gets it at Kun Lun, he was already wearing the boots during his flashback scenes at the cave.

No fist light trail.

Iron Fist abilities wavering from fight to fight.

Spoiler

Danny being kind of clueless about Harold, Gao was like "you're dumb aren't you" lol.


Fist struggling with boss Meachum.

Cremating Meachum, wasn't his head supposed to be removed?

Joy's turn to evil made no sense at the end after she knew Danny was set up. Unless she's just baiting Davos? Dumb no matter the explanation.

I don't judge a 13 episode show on if I will watch it again or not.

It could be mind blowing excellent and I still might not watch the entire thing again.

I judge it on if I felt like I wasted my time watching it.

I do not feel like I wasted my time watching Iron Fist.

I am still excited for Defenders.

They will all have their quality moments in that group dynamic.

However what I am worried about is The Hand.

 

[EVILFACE]

The guy playing Ward was stellar, best in the show. Reminded me so much of James Remar in looks and line delivery.

Gao was good.

Colleen, nice tight body

10 episodes would work best.