More Batman "experts", or how some people just don't get it!

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Oh I love it too...I just wouldnt live there....

That's the idea. Gotham ain't supposed to be a great place to live!

 

[CelticPredator]

No, Gotham CAN be a nice place to live....but the crime would put a lot of people off....its just Burton's Gotham is just disgusting and vile. Steam everywhere, green goo leaking all over the place....blah.

 

[Zoolander]

if gotham was intended to be a good place to live then it would not need a freak dressed as a bat to police it!

 

[UTtoyfan]

Or anywhere where theres a clown giving away 12 mil....

That was the scariest part for me when I was younger watching the 1989 Batman. All the people running around grabbing the money and inhaling Smilex gas. Yay!

 

[fett1]

Bale had me ever since he made me "swear" to him.

Well said adambadadam........................................ I couldnt agree more.. Bale plays the ultimate true too comic book representation of the vengeance hungry orphin who simply disguises his voice so not to be perhaps recognised as Wayne...................................as he is so widely known by so many in Gotham as both Batman or Wayne....

Cheers to you for raising this thread,.........

Fett1

 

[Agent0028]

So, I was just thinking, if people can't recognize Clark Kent as Superman because of the glasses, then why would Batman need to change his voice?

 

[YoNoSe]

So, I was just thinking, if people can't recognize Clark Kent as Superman because of the glasses, then why would Batman need to change his voice?

Because Batman can't give the "amnesia kiss."

 

[adambadadam]

Because Batman can't give the "amnesia kiss."

WIN!

Lord help me if I ever start to over analyze these things. I watch these films to have a good time. I read comic books to relax. Can you imagine what Star Trek fans go through?

 

[YoNoSe]

WIN!

Lord help me if I ever start to over analyze these things. I watch these films to have a good time. I read comic books to relax. Can you imagine what Star Trek fans go through?

A Star Trek fan recently got all huffy with me because I had the nerve to ask whether JJ Abrams new movie would be more of a prequel, or a total reboot. They seemed to be mocking my ignorance, but never actually answered my question.

 

[adambadadam]

Also, I don't think I would put Nolan's or Burton's Batman over each other. Both are timeless, but completely different animals. Like your favorite monthly book, creative teams constantly change. I just happen to really like the last go round.

I've got nothing to ^^^^^ about. As far as comic-book francises go, I think Batman fans have it good. The last 20 years have seen Frank Miller, both Burton movies, the Animated Series/K.Conroy, Leob/Sale/Lee, Bat'anime, and the Nolan'verse. Let's not forget a scadazzle of cool toys.

By comparison, Superman started strong, but never really "returned" and both Spider-Man and X-Men have sputtered out before they really got started. Hellboy and Iron-Man, as good as they are, are still a wait and see kinda thing.

Over the long haul, I believe Batman has strong future in front of it because of the quality of whats come before.

 

[adambadadam]

A Star Trek fan recently got all huffy with me because I had the nerve to ask whether JJ Abrams new movie would be more of a prequel, or a total reboot. They seemed to be mocking my ignorance, but never actually answered my question.

Lashing out is always a sign of self-hatred!

I'll still go see the next Star Trek movie though

 

[YoNoSe]

Lashing out is always a sign of self-hatred!

I'll still go see the next Star Trek movie though

Me too! That's why I was asking.

 

[Dusty]

I would have loved the film just as much if Heath had lived. And the voice never bothered me. Being a fellow Kurgan, I don't normally go against Shai... but, I don't get the TDK negativity. Yeah, there are a lot of blind love fanboys of the film... and it's justified... I just don't get the hate. Any self respecting LONG time Batman fan would love this film. And that is only if you have long loved the character from the comics, not the films, and it also helps if you like the edge Frank Miller brought to it. TDK is damn near my favorite film of all time, I can comfortably say that. To me it ranks right up there with Raiders, Star Wars, Jaws and Halloween at the very peak of my cinematic love.

It has nothing to do with Heath dying, and a LOT more with the fact that they got Batman right and moreover... that they NAILED The Joker's character. Not to mention that it's the best Gordon we have ever had, the best Two Face, and a super hero film that the hero in question DOESN'T save the girl. It's everything I wanted it to be and more, and it has nothing to do with the hype.

Throw rocks at me, crucify me if you will... I will never back down from that belief.

I don't think I or anyone else ever said that the movie is "better because Heath died". The common thought - which I 100% agree with - is that BOX OFFICE is higher because of the death and hype surrounding it. (Box office has nothing to do with quality, as we all know.) It also helps that it's a very well-put-together film. Soooo, you combine all the Batman fans who were gonna see it multiple times no matter what, together with the gossipy "I want to see Heath in his final role" types (unfortunately for my sex, mostly women), mix it with a great film, and bingo - box office gold!

Just curious and completely serious...

what part/(s) did Joker ROCK?!?

I mean his scenes were some of the most violent in the film, or are you refering to Batman's character?

For all the futility and fan-boys out here, I'm just taking the opportunity to research the Venus mind and the rare occasion that many, many Females enjoyed Dark Knight, perhaps as much as Mama Mia!

To put it simply, Batman is not my favorite of superheroes. He's way too serious - pun intended I prefer the Batman of the first 2 Burton films. I stand by my believe that The Joker is by far the best part of TDK. Yeah he's super violent, but pretty much the only good laughs and 'OMFG, did you see that?!' moments come from his erratic and incredible behavior. He's so morbid you just can't look away... and yet, in some weird way, you kinda feel bad for him too. THAT'S a great character.

Travis is the biggest Batman fan you'll ever meet (he wants the middle name of our kid to be 'Gotham' for goodness sake!), and can go on and on with the best of you about why Batman rocks, physically and psychologically. But even he admits that his LEAST favorite part - of both TDK and BB - is the Batman character... well, second behind the ridiculous addition of Rachel Dawes that is Batman is just kinda weak in these films, when compared with the comics and more recent graphic novels. You care much more about the bad guys. Which I kinda like because the bad guys are just so awesome! Batman is actually defined, moreso than most other superheroes I think, by his villains - at least in the films. Perhaps because Batman himself is so close to being a villain - he just is a couple steps away. I think that's what makes him so appealing to many people too. Just not me.

Either way, I still feel that both BB and TDK are slightly over-rated. Not that they aren't great films... just that they aren't the second-coming of film-making WALL-E is by far the best film of the summer for me, and I will be very very disappointed if it's not up for Best Picture. Although I do wholeheartedly agree that Heath deserves a nod for Best Actor (and not because he died).

As for Gotham as a city, I'm pretty sure they were just using New York, no? Didn't they even refer to streets from New York, adding in a few 'made up' places like Arkham? And just like NYC, Gotham is not all bad, but the media (and Batman) tend to focus on the worst. Maybe that's why Batman's not my cup of tea, and never has been - I tend to focus on the positive

Don't get me wrong, the movie is great. I will probably not see it again anytime soon though - twice is plenty for now. When the third comes out, I'll have a Batman marathon, but until then, I've had my fill of The Dark Knight.

 

[CelticPredator]

Also, I don't think I would put Nolan's or Burton's Batman over each other. Both are timeless, but completely different animals. Like your favorite monthly book, creative teams constantly change. I just happen to really like the last go round.

.

The perfect answer. I agree 1000000%. In fact, I just might go watch Batman right now....ceyah!

 

[The Josh]

I don't think I or anyone else ever said that the movie is "better because Heath died". The common thought - which I 100% agree with - is that BOX OFFICE is higher because of the death and hype surrounding it. (Box office has nothing to do with quality, as we all know.) It also helps that it's a very well-put-together film. Soooo, you combine all the Batman fans who were gonna see it multiple times no matter what, together with the gossipy "I want to see Heath in his final role" types (unfortunately for my sex, mostly women), mix it with a great film, and bingo - box office gold!

I'm sure the BO is higher cause of his death but I'm not sure its getting the bounce that some may suggest. This film is very well put together in all aspects. Like you Batman isn't my #1 so for me to go and see it and go back is a big deal. Then you toss in those others you mentioned and you're correct BOG.

I will disagree on another thing that I do think the BO does suggest that a film is fairly well put together.

To put it simply, Batman is not my favorite of superheroes. He's way too serious - pun intended I prefer the Batman of the first 2 Burton films. I stand by my believe that The Joker is by far the best part of TDK. Yeah he's super violent, but pretty much the only good laughs and 'OMFG, did you see that?!' moments come from his erratic and incredible behavior. He's so morbid you just can't look away... and yet, in some weird way, you kinda feel bad for him too. THAT'S a great character.

Like I said he isn't my top either that goes to Wolverine. I also agree that The Joker is the best part of TDK but its a two fold reason as to why. Heath does some of the best acting I've seen pulling this off but its also helped by how well Bale does pulling off Batman. I agree with you though for the reasons The Joker rocks. I took my sister to see it and countless times we looked at each other like did he seriously just do that.

But even he admits that his LEAST favorite part - of both TDK and BB - is the Batman character... well, second behind the ridiculous addition of Rachel Dawes that is Batman is just kinda weak in these films, when compared with the comics and more recent graphic novels. You care much more about the bad guys. Which I kinda like because the bad guys are just so awesome! Batman is actually defined, moreso than most other superheroes I think, by his villains - at least in the films. Perhaps because Batman himself is so close to being a villain - he just is a couple steps away. I think that's what makes him so appealing to many people too. Just not me.

The thing I like about Batman in these films compared to the others is they make him even more human. That close as you said to being bad guy. Yes, he's a "superhero" but he is just one wrong move away from going into the abyss. That to me is why this Batman is better than the others and helps me care for a character that isn't my fave. I cared much more for Batman in BB than Liam Neeson character. I kept rooting for both The Joker and Batman in TDK though as I wanted to see more back and forth. So I personally cared for both equally but I admit a sick sense of I wanted to see the next really wrong thing The Joker would do. Rachel Dawes was a weak character overall but she was better in TDK but they killed her off which is a good thing really.

Either way, I still feel that both BB and TDK are slightly over-rated. Not that they aren't great films... just that they aren't the second-coming of film-making WALL-E is by far the best film of the summer for me, and I will be very very disappointed if it's not up for Best Picture. Although I do wholeheartedly agree that Heath deserves a nod for Best Actor (and not because he died).

I agree on BB. Its a good film but its not the best film ever by any stretch but I have to TDK is one of the better films I've seen in a while. Haven't seen Wall-E but for me its Iron Man and TDK as the two best with Indy Third, Hellboy 2, and The Mummy rapping things up. Heath though should be nominated as he pulled off one heck of a job.

Hope you don't mind the MQ Dusty.

 

[adambadadam]

I guess the reason Batman does it for me, as far as a quality character is concerned, is just as the movie implies...

difficult choices, the hard choices...

It's probably easier to give into the rage and the zero responsibility, but here you have someone that takes a tragedy (as tragedy is common in everyone's life) and strives to make that into something positive. It's not just lemonade from lemons, he drives himself to his ultimate potential.

This is a favorite theme of mine and Batman/Bruce, not being a "perfect" person by any means, is a great study in this journey. He has his flaws, but that doesn't stop him from pressing on.

The Joker to me is awesome, but doesn't quite rustle me the same way because his one trick is he's cccrrraaazzzyy! Crazy in the way we can almost relate to, but crazy nonetheless. Remember, we're all sheep! With little back story, you get a sense that life played him the wrong set of cards. That is, if we're to believe the ever "evolving" story about how he got his scars. Nice props' to "Mad Love" BTW!!! He's almost Batman's mirror extreme. In fact TDK is filled with duality themes of what do you do when you get screwed. How do you handle it??? Batman has his way, Joker has his and Harvey was tragically, somewhere inbetween.

I think we fall in love the villian for great reasons, but perhaps I lean in a minority that believes in the selflessness of a hero that endeavors to become something more/better than where they started out.


That and I'm pretty sure it was Chicago and Tokyo that the first unit filmed.

 

[adambadadam]

....or in much shorter terms and in a less rambling way, I think the "human element" , that Josh refers to, makes it more appealing than just duking it out with your arch nemesis.

I'm all gooey inside

 

[adambadadam]

and now I notice I'm officially 3 posts past a "Freakazoid"!!!!

PAR'TAY

 

[DarkArtist81]

I guess the reason Batman does it for me, as far as a quality character is concerned, is just as the movie implies...

difficult choices, the hard choices...

It's probably easier to give into the rage and the zero responsibility, but here you have someone that takes a tragedy (as tragedy is common in everyone's life) and strives to make that into something positive. It's not just lemonade from lemons, he drives himself to his ultimate potential.

This is a favorite theme of mine and Batman/Bruce, not being a "perfect" person by any means, is a great study in this journey. He has his flaws, but that doesn't stop him from pressing on.

The Joker to me is awesome, but doesn't quite rustle me the same way because his one trick is he's cccrrraaazzzyy! Crazy in the way we can almost relate to, but crazy nonetheless. Remember, we're all sheep! With little back story, you get a sense that life played him the wrong set of cards. That is, if we're to believe the ever "evolving" story about how he got his scars. Nice props' to "Mad Love" BTW!!! He's almost Batman's mirror extreme. In fact TDK is filled with duality themes of what do you do when you get screwed. How do you handle it??? Batman has his way, Joker has his and Harvey was tragically, somewhere inbetween.

I think we fall in love the villian for great reasons, but perhaps I lean in a minority that believes in the selflessness of a hero that endeavors to become something more/better than where they started out.


That and I'm pretty sure it was Chicago and Tokyo that the first unit filmed.

You hit the same points I was going to make. Batman is my favorite superhero by far, and most of that is because of the personal connection I made to him in my youth. When my Mother died I became introverted and a bit twisted. I attempted suicide, I raged out at my Father and my friends... further isolating myself. I got thrown out of class and I even stopped drawing because it reminded me too much of my Mother... who was the artist that started me down the path.

But it was in the comics that I found salvation, a bit of hope in the darkness of my despair. Batman's story appealed to me greatly, taking tragedy and making it work in your favor. Not blaming the world like the Joker or blaming others like Harvey did, but rather doing your best to do the right thing... that really hit home for me. Batman gave me hope for myself and it pulled me out of the poisonous destiny I was no doubt headed towards.

This film, to me, takes the theme of Batman a bit further. It pits three people who have all been screwed over by someone against each other, only their principals are different. And in that, I saw myself. Batman was the man I strive to be, Joker was the man I could have been and Harvey is more like me when I briefly dropped into darkness again (ironically after losing part of my face in surgery and control of the right side of my face afterwards). So the writing of this film again hit home, I guess that is why I love it so much.

And Dusty, I respect your opinion and I understand where you and Travis are coming from. I guess my take on it is kinda skewed by my own personal connection to Batman and the villains of this particular tale.

 

[adambadadam]

You hit the same points I was going to make. Batman is my favorite superhero by far, and most of that is because of the personal connection I made to him in my youth. When my Mother died I became introverted and a bit twisted. I attempted suicide, I raged out at my Father and my friends... further isolating myself. I got thrown out of class and I even stopped drawing because it reminded me too much of my Mother... who was the artist that started me down the path.

But it was in the comics that I found salvation, a bit of hope in the darkness of my despair. Batman's story appealed to me greatly, taking tragedy and making it work in your favor. Not blaming the world like the Joker or blaming others like Harvey did, but rather doing your best to do the right thing... that really hit home for me. Batman gave me hope for myself and it pulled me out of the poisonous destiny I was no doubt headed towards.

This film, to me, takes the theme of Batman a bit further. It pits three people who have all been screwed over by someone against each other, only their principals are different. And in that, I saw myself. Batman was the man I strive to be, Joker was the man I could have been and Harvey is more like me when I briefly dropped into darkness again (ironically after losing part of my face in surgery and control of the right side of my face afterwards). So the writing of this film again hit home, I guess that is why I love it so much.

And Dusty, I respect your opinion and I understand where you and Travis are coming from. I guess my take on it is kinda skewed by my own personal connection to Batman and the villains of this particular tale.

WIN :blackbat