MoS and BvS as commentary on the paradigm shift that “we are not alone”

[ZE_501]

Peoples' reactions scare me more than aliens. Our response to Covid. The way we treated each other. How we fought for toilet paper. Well, we will all have to hold on for the ride.

Objectively speaking, we are not (collectively) a psychologically healthy species. Growing pains maybe? The dialectic between our animal natures and the better angels of our neocortex is a deadly one. COVID was a mild crisis relatively speaking. Could have been much worse.

What I don't know is, had it been much worse, would that have made people stop acting like spoiled children by shocking them into facing the crisis cooperatively, or would it have devolved into more chaos?

Pulling together over a natural disaster is one thing, but by its very nature disease breeds insularity and tribalism. It's not like we didn't see it illustrated in ... every zombie movie ever.

What would the response to incontrovertible proof of alien intelligence be? That's a whole other level of weird.

The Internet, for example ... is one of the greatest cases of unintended consequences I've ever seen and it doesn't look great.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Objectively speaking, we are not (collectively) a psychologically healthy species.

I agree with ZE_501 on this major point.

I have also decided to provide irrefutable evidence.

Happy New Years to all.

 

[ZE_501]

I have also decided to provide irrefutable evidence.

Story checks out.

 

[JMT1979]

I agree with ZE_501 on this major point.

I have also decided to provide irrefutable evidence.

Happy New Years to all.

The prosecution would also like to submit the Western version of "TikTok" into evidence.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Within the deconstruction project of placing superhero mythology in our real world (versus superheroes existing in the fictional headspace where they can exist as classical idealizations) there are many things that would be different than the comics and other idealized depictions. But the fact that we are not alone in the universe might very well have the deepest impact of all on us psychologically.

Superman kicks off the superhero genre with a story of an ET visitation. Superman is himself a metaphor for what confirmation of the existence of ET means for us. ET has the potential to be good or bad, or a mix of the two. And we all tend to project our hopes and fears onto that, whether we do it consciously or not.

I haven't read Larry Niven's Footfall in a very long time.

But it's not hard to see how an alien race could devastate Earth very quickly if they wanted to do it. At various points, I've seen The Expanse and Starship Troopers sort of discuss these issues as well (big rocks as a type of kinetic energy weapon)

Earth's best defense is getting a city sized platform into orbit. So there is only one practical way to do that. ( Practical in terms of feasibility, not for our environment and not for millions on Earth who would perish based on the total consequences.

The idea that aliens would be smart has always had some push/pull to me. They could be smarter. Or they could be dumb but just have more advanced technology. In essence, what if some aliens "car jacked" some other more advanced aliens and took their space battle cruiser to Earth. And it's just some teenage joyride where they massacre the entire human population because they are bored.

If aliens do show up, and we all find out about it, it's probably going to be fight. OK, well, I'd prefer something different, but when it's time to fight, it's just time to fight.

Something I used to think about when watching Star Trek (i.e. the Enterprise runs into another similar sized space ship), is what if that big ship that is opposite of the Enterprise is really just a single seat fighter from another race?

Can you imagine if the entire Starfleet armada, plus all the Klingons, Romulans and all the rest pooled their ships, and got cooked by a squadron of alien single seat nearly obsolete fighters?

The mistake humans make is thinking "war" with aliens will happen on the same scale. What if they are the size of Smurfs but there are trillions of them that sweep through the Earth like locusts?

I'm not sure I totally buy into the deconstruction arc that's been discussed, but I did really like Man Of Steel.

 

[ZE_501]

The mistake humans make is thinking "war" with aliens will happen on the same scale.

There are multiple ways to get rid of humans, depending on how patient an alien race is and whether or not they want the biosphere intact:

Various types of destruction (kinetic, nuclear, nanotech etc. etc.), biological weapons or along that same line -- sterilization -- or even just waiting (if their ultra-super-AI determines a high likelihood of the species dying out due to stupidity).

I don't think there are a lot of raw materials on earth that can't be had elsewhere in the solar system easily enough for a super advanced race. Unless they want the biosphere to add our diversity to thei -- wait ...

 

[MeatHookGekko]

There are multiple ways to get rid of humans, depending on how patient an alien race is and whether or not they want the biosphere intact:

Makes me think of a Twilight Zone short when they rebooted the show in the 80s/90s. Only 8 minutes total, but still a great watch....

 

[greatlakes6]

I love this thread, thank you for allowing for some intelligent conversation here. I think most of us can agree, that if extra terrestrial life were to make themselves known on this planet, there would be mass chaos and religion as we know it would cease to exist. I believe that these non-human entities know that our species is not ready to handle the truth of their existence. I also don’t believe that they wanted to hurt us, they would have done so by know if that were the case. I certainly hope we are able to have the answers to our questions during our lifetime.

One question I have always had. I am constantly hearing about all these crashed UFO’s going back to possibly before Roswell. Different parts of the world including Russia. If these vehicles are able to maneuver through the universe, understand the necessary speed and angle of entry to enter our atmosphere, make use of wormholes, etc. how are they not able to avoid crashing once here?

 

[JacktheRipper]

They have their own version of Elon Musk and the ship was on autopilot.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

One question I have always had. I am constantly hearing about all these crashed UFO’s going back to possibly before Roswell. Different parts of the world including Russia. If these vehicles are able to maneuver through the universe, understand the necessary speed and angle of entry to enter our atmosphere, make use of wormholes, etc. how are they not able to avoid crashing once here?

If I was a high level administrator of an alien race, and I had convicted prisoners. What better way to jettison them from creating problems for me than to put them on a one way speed bump filled ride and have an obsolete craft crash into a habitable planet?

I wouldn't put it above some other alien race to treat Earth like a huge recycling bin for them.

That's what I thought when I first saw Stargate SG1. That the Air Force could make billions as a waste disposal company. Open up a gate to some distant planet that looks abandoned. Then dump all our waste there.

Consider what would be jettisoned first

- Nuclear waste
- Chemical waste
- All those damn plastics that will never be recycled
- Product packaging
- EWaste
- Lawyers of all varieties
- In Laws
- People who don't like dogs ( I'm not sure we can even call them people anymore. Dogs make everything simple. If my dog hates you, then I hate you too)

Anywhere in the entire galaxy, something I consider universally understood is there's always garbage to be taken out the back.

Will the aliens we meet be the best and brightest of their kind? Or the low brow/low rent versions instead?

We send our best and brightest into space, because it's hard to get someone in space. For aliens, it might be easy. Real easy, and then with that kind of access takes away that filter for excellence.

I mean look at Man Of Steel. The "threat" ended up being basically ex cons from another planet.

 

[greatlakes6]

Very interesting thought process!

 

[Otomofan]

- People who don't like dogs ( I'm not sure we can even call them people anymore. Dogs make everything simple. If my dog hates you, then I hate you too)

Yeah, all those children that had their faces bitten off by dogs are such terrible people. Way to bring an interesting conversation right down into the gutter.

 

[Alatar]

If I was a high level administrator of an alien race, and I had convicted prisoners. What better way to jettison them from creating problems for me than to put them on a one way speed bump filled ride and have an obsolete craft crash into a habitable planet?

I wouldn't put it above some other alien race to treat Earth like a huge recycling bin for them.

That's what I thought when I first saw Stargate SG1. That the Air Force could make billions as a waste disposal company. Open up a gate to some distant planet that looks abandoned. Then dump all our waste there.

Consider what would be jettisoned first

- Nuclear waste
- Chemical waste
- All those damn plastics that will never be recycled
- Product packaging
- EWaste
- Lawyers of all varieties
- In Laws
- People who don't like dogs ( I'm not sure we can even call them people anymore. Dogs make everything simple. If my dog hates you, then I hate you too)

Anywhere in the entire galaxy, something I consider universally understood is there's always garbage to be taken out the back.

Will the aliens we meet be the best and brightest of their kind? Or the low brow/low rent versions instead?

We send our best and brightest into space, because it's hard to get someone in space. For aliens, it might be easy. Real easy, and then with that kind of access takes away that filter for excellence.

I mean look at Man Of Steel. The "threat" ended up being basically ex cons from another planet.

Based on what our space telescopes are finding out in the cosmos when we search for earth-like exoplanets, it seems that roughly earth-sized rocky planets with plenty of water situated in the habitable zone that aren’t tidally locked and hopefully have a strong magnetic field are not common. Of the 5K+ planets that have been discovered none of them is at yet confirmed as Earth 2.0.



The earth might actually be highly valuable real estate!

 

[Alatar]

I'm not sure I totally buy into the deconstruction arc that's been discussed, but I did really like Man Of Steel.

For evidence supporting the deconstruction angle I would recommend this essay:

https://thesnyderverse.com/bvs-is-a-watchmen-like-deconstruction/

 

[Remembermyname]

Who goes there?

 

[Ramatuelle]

Not to turn this into a 'do they exist?' debate (I still think there's no evidence that they do, in the sense that most people mean, but am prepared to eat my hat if I'm proved wrong), I think the reaction to actual proof would be met in a wide variety of ways, much like xenophobia and racism that has existed since the start of mankind. Some would embrace them, most would hate and fear. I don't think we're ready for that info, if it were actually reality.

Any aliens with the technology to visit us would be so advanced that it is in their best interest, or ours, that they don't make themselves known to us. We simply are not on their level in any way. Stephen hawking warned us of the dangers of announcing our existence to the galaxy, but that doesn't stop us from doing so

Liu cixin's books the three body problem, the dark forest etc bring this concept to life in a massive way. To think other life would be benevolent is an insane concept to me and a lot of others

I do think there's life out there, it's just far beyond our comprehension, and thankfully too far away for us to have to worry about

https://www.amazon.com/Roadside-Picnic-Rediscovered-Classics-Strugatsky-ebook/dp/B0087GJ5WI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1CI3MZB507JIP&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.OkKU7AC1WfScTlwfheDPnXc6RoH27bTDKMyfAgC_JAOjiwdh6E0av1gwbYJaee4-EdqHPJ2ZmRjlX5t8WEcylKye8JIQyL52Qn-9c2qMKhhnf2KZQMLlerpqvfzRPeBJZ13K2JxeLFbkZBHYhpBmDD5wHvsoxtI81fhJiIVaWEN49z38Rgd6cfrXCKIPKMqRXHD-dLKGR7zo2T5lFb6oxMCdIVws3yFj2R0PqqCpBI8.E3vrS2ravnTt8g6UKJRVf97PV43C46xniicB7bjL0VQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=roadside+picnic+book&qid=1709412128&sprefix=roadside+picnic,aps,1867&sr=8-1

A most excellent novel about the very concept that aliens would or would not:

*even regard humans as sentient life forms
*If they did, are we worth conversing with
*View us as worth any consideration whatsoever
*would they even be carbon-based life forms? We might not even be able to SEE them.

In this novel [from the 1960s?!!! IIRC, the Strugatskys were some forward-thinking guys] twelve alien spaceships slingshotted around the globe make a day?long pitstop on earth, then they leave a crapton of DANGEROUS stuff behind when they go, and this changes human society forever. Not for the better. We should be grateful for the forbearance of any real life aliens, any encounter between us and them won't go well. Especially for us.

Every time I see that Star Trek movie about Zephram Cochrane that ends with the Vulcans visiting earth, I always say "get right back in that ship!" at the screen... that's for their own safety btw. I dont think we would be meeting any Vulcans though. Probably something hungrier.

 

[Ramatuelle]

It will be interesting how all this information will be received once it starts to get released. It's exciting, but at the same time a bit unsettling.
It's one thing to speculate and wonder, but to actually know something as fact. Peoples' reactions scare me more than aliens. Our response to Covid. The way we treated each other. How we fought for toilet paper. Well, we will all have to hold on for the ride.

See "District 9." These aliens got treated like trash, with no thought whatsoever that perhaps they have put out a distress call and their buddies might eventually show up, having heard how we are and ready to enact a little revenge. Humans are EXACTLY stupid enough to be rude to a species with superior technology. Absolutely that rude and short-sighted.

 

[Remembermyname]

Man is still the safest place to hide

 

[Ramatuelle]

Man is still the safest place to hide

Yeah we know that, Remember, which is one of the main unsettling things about that film: the knowledge that this is a REALLY PLAUSIBLE method of first contact, and secondly that this garbage about "any species able to cross lightyears with no problem HAS TO be benign, guaranteed." BULL. ****. they do!!!

Are humans benign? We're actually pretty smart. And we are not benign. Never were.