My issues with KOTCS

[Hedji]

Has anyone stopped to consider that if Willie was written as a strong female, she'd be unfairly compared to Marion. I'm sure the idea was to keep things fresh and not try to do Marion II.

Temple of Doom is like a live action Johnny Quest on steroids.

 

[Solarsailor]

Watched all 4 on Blu with the wife over the past week.

She really loved Raiders and TLC, thought Temple was good but a bit darker and shook her head at a fair few bits in KOTCS.

Can't say I disagree with her!

Fan edit without monkey swing, fencing fight and car driving off onto the tree and Kingdom would be ok IMO.

 

[a-dev]

Fan edit without monkey swing, fencing fight and car driving off onto the tree and Kingdom would be ok IMO.

but still boring as **** in large parts of the middle.

 

[Solarsailor]

but still boring as **** in large parts of the middle.

I kind of like all the snooping around, following clue's stuff. That's indie.

If they stripped the jungle action sequence down to bare bones knuckle fights and ***** slaps instead of a CGI bukake, it would have been fine.

For me anyway. It's was never going to be half as good as the others.

 

[a-dev]

CGI Bukake! I like that.

 

[steveo]

Would have made? She basically plaid Capshaw's role in Romancing the Stone, complete with fedora wearing hero at her side.

I liked RTS when it first came out and only watched it once afterward. I think that says a lot about a movie. Now TOD, I've watched it a LOT!

 

[ChunkyZergling]

to quote myself,

"My issue? It sucked."

I said that because there are too many "issues" with kotcs that I cannot not even begin to attempt to talk about them all. It is just a bad movie, period. Every aspect.

No, I'm wrong. Let me say this, it is not a bad movie. But I am comparing it to my 3 favorite movies of ALL TIME!!! That is what I compare it to, that is what you must compare it to. Comparing it to them is a waste of my time. Kotcs cannot be compared to those movies. It's name is not worthy of even being spoken, not even whispered, in a conversation in which they were only merely mentioned, if just for a brief instant.

 

[Solarsailor]

to quote myself,

"My issue? It sucked."

I said that because there are too many "issues" with kotcs that I cannot not even begin to attempt to talk about them all. It is just a bad movie, period. Every aspect.

It is hard to see positives although I did think a couple of the set shots were really well done. Both behind profiles of Indie looking at the blast and the space ship were very iconic looking. Also the hat casting the shadow and the ROTLA storage room where nice touches. (yes thats not a lot )

Problem is the movie came about 10 years too late. If they stuck to the original plan and not just jumped on the remake bandwagon it could have been much better. I feel it came at a time when all these movies just started to get recycled and that's what this feels like when your watching it.

 

[CelticPredator]

Plinkett gave the best review of that movie. As someone who doesn't hate it, I couldn't disagree with a single thing he said.

 

[a-dev]

Plinkett gave the best review of that movie. As someone who doesn't hate it, I couldn't disagree with a single thing he said.

I was surprised he didn't bring up the ridiculous lunacy of Marion deliberately driving them off a cliff, smiling while she did it.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

I agree about Plinkett. All his critiques are pretty spot on. Very intelligent and thought out, despite the crazy delivery.

 

[youbastards]

I just re-watched KOTCS this week, for the first time in a few years, and immediately after watching the first 3 films.

I didn't dislike it as much as I expected to, and there were a few scenes I actually enjoyed more than I remember. Everyone has focused so much on what is bad about the movie, let me focus on the things I enjoyed.

- In the beginning, Indy is grizzled, sour, and a bit lost. The loss of both Marcus and his father have really affected him, and in many ways he isn't the same Indy we knew, especially after the ending of Last Crusade. Once the action kicks in, and he meets Mutt at the diner, you start to see a glimmer of the old Indy, and when they finally reveal Marion, the real Indy really starts to come out. Look at Ford's acting in the scene where Marion comes out of the tent, the snake and the whole void collapse and reveal of Mutt being his son, and then the back of the Russian truck. Those scenes really show that the Indy we love is still there, he was just buried.

- Mutt, yes despite the obvious vine swinging debacle, is really a good fit for Indy. Shia takes a lot of grief for this movie, but his performance is not the problem. He's a greaser, with heart, and the scene of he and Indy in Oxley's cell really shows the chemistry between these two characters. It's a shame that the vine swinging will forever overshadow that character, because there really was a lot of potential.

- Karen Allen was really the heart of this movie, and her arrival is really the key scene of the whole movie. She brings Indy (and Ford's acting) out of the funk he is in, and the scene of her telling Indy that she has had a 'damn good life' without him is classic Indy/Marion chemistry from Raiders.

If I had to sum up each Indy movie with a one word description, it would be the following:

Raiders = perfect
Temple of Doom = fun
Last Crusade = heart
KOTCS = nostalgia

Is KOTCS the best Indy movie of the four, absolutely not. Is it the worst of the four, yes it is. But being the worst of the four Indiana Jones movies is still better than being the best National Treasure or the best Mummy movie.

 

[Kamandi]

Ignoring the vine swinging, Mutt might have worked better as a character if he had a better story to serve and believable stuff to do in it.

Mutt was working better as a character before the re-introduction of Marion. In truth, the whole movie was, but that's another subject. If Mutt had a different function to serve besides "help me find my mom" there are changes they could have made.

Mutt being a greaser is a not bad starting point for a character, especially a forgotten son of Indy. But it also doesn't lend well to some of the interests Mutt allegedly has (fencing?). Mutt should have been hotwiring and fixing and stealing and fighting his way through the movie. Maybe appologizing to a girl or two along the way. Mutt needed to be James Dean but he's barely more than Eddie Haskall in a leather jacket.

Casting was one problem. Shia Lapoof doesn't make a convincing 50's punk. He looks too damn young to be believable as Indy's kid. Timeline is partly to blame here. Harrison is 31 years older where 21 years have passed for Indy. That might only be 10 years difference, but Ford wears them like 20. Mutt needed an actor who looks like he's not Harrison's grandson.

If they didn't turn Mutt into being Indy's kid they would have had much more liberty to make him work. Badass might be hoping for too much. I'd settle for Mutt as useful character.

 

[swsqueakquels]

Is KOTCS the best Indy movie of the four, absolutely not. Is it the worst of the four, yes it is. But being the worst of the four Indiana Jones movies is still better than being the best National Treasure or the best Mummy movie.

 

[Kamandi]

But being the worst of the four Indiana Jones movies is still better than being the best National Treasure or the best Mummy movie.

The first Mummy film is a lot more fun than Crystal Skull. Also I would have Rachel Weisz in many unmentionable ways even if it means James Bond will kill me.

 

[budafett]

Just watched KOTCS again.

Remove the swinging on vines, add more mystery to the aliens by not even showing them or their space craft makes it a much better movie.

 

[ChunkyZergling]

Look man. There is no denying kotcs is a disgrace to Steven Spielberg's other three masterpieces.

There should be no discussion at all. It should not and cannot be compared to the other 3 movies.

 

[Magpie 7]

Disgrace is a bit strong, the film is weak compared to Raiders but then it would be, like Kasdan said Raiders was perfection how can you improve on that? Everybody wants that Raiders feeling again (was that a song?) but it just didn't happen with ToD or Crusade let alone KotCS, Indy 5 or 6. If KotCS is the conclusion to the Indy story then i'm happy with that.

 

[budafett]

Look man. There is no denying kotcs is a disgrace to Steven Spielberg's other three masterpieces.

There should be no discussion at all. It should not and cannot be compared to the other 3 movies.

I wouldn't go that far!

We all know how Spielberg feels about aliens and how terrible George's dialogue can be.

 

[ChunkyZergling]

I stand by my statement.