Neill Blomkamp's ALIEN is official!

[a-dev]

I get what you're saying, perhaps the queen overrode their individual thinking? The intelligence of the Alien was only hinted at in the movie, really. I guess it was the conceptual stuff, Alien pyramids, hieroglyphs, etc..., that really hit me as a kid, and I always wanted to see.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Yeah you can speculate that the Queen has the ability to do that or that in a hive environment with a Queen present the warriors just innately know to perform for the collective but when they're on their own they have more individuality and could exhibit things like the sinister curiosity about prey that the Nostromo Alien had. So there are ways to rationalize the apparent difference in portrayal of the creature between Alien and Aliens. Even the life cycle thing - I know the Queen and hive concept might not have been what was originally intended and the extended cut of Alien had Brett and Dallas being turned into eggs and some people say that's in direct conflict with Cameron's Aliens - I say, ehhh...is it though? It's an alien lifeform. Who's to say the warriors couldn't do likewise in a situation where there is no Queen?

I understand what you guys are saying about the original film though - part of the fascination is that there were in fact 2 Aliens - the Spacejockey and ''Kane's son''. The title of the film refers to the latter but the Spacejockey and the Derelict ship were a deeper level of mystery. Cameron's film doesn't have this and it takes an entirely different focus, really making the film about Ripley. And he chose the most natural way of getting Ripley re-involved - i.e having the military component - there was no way Ripley would go back there without heavy weaponry. This of course produced a vastly different kind of film set in the same universe and that was, I think, the best move that could have been made for a sequel - again, if it had to have Ripley and if it had to based around the chestbursting Xenomorph (as opposed to delving into the Spacejockey's race).

Alien 3 then took the ballsy move of not continuing with the most recently popular guns & action format and returned to the single creature/no weapons scenario. It didn't work out for them at the time but it has gotten more appreciation over the years. What if Terminator had followed the same pattern and T3 hadn't just been a poor imitation of T2.

 

[Khev]

Alien 3 then took the ballsy move of not continuing with the most recently popular guns & action format and returned to the single creature/no weapons scenario. It didn't work out for them at the time but it has gotten more appreciation over the years. What if Terminator had followed the same pattern and T3 hadn't just been a poor imitation of T2.

Yes for all it's faults Alien 3 did take the more daring route of abandoning guns and even some of the tropes shared by both the previous films like motion trackers, flame throwers, blasting it out the airlock and Ripley surviving. ALIENS obviously was a bit of a repeat of the same scenario but dressed as a war movie instead of another horror/slasher film and the end result brilliance was due to that choice coupled with its masterful execution of said premise.

 

[a-dev]

I basically love Alien 3 extended edition. I've watched it twice during the pandemic. It's canon to me.

In the pro camp:

-a gloomy and scary location portrayed with amazing sets

-an incredible atmospheric score

-a good new Alien design which was probably the last time the creature was frightening. Man in suit stuff was shot well.

-the primary characters were good and played by a good cast - Clemens's death in particular hurts while Dillon goes out like a badass. I even like Superintendent Andrews and 85. And Morse, the unlikely survivor who can use F bombs like no other.

-the tunnel chasing set pieces were new, the fact they actually succeeded in trapping the Alien was new, and finally the mode of killing the Alien was new.

-Ripley having to sacrifice herself was grim but emotional and brought a finality to proceedings


Downsides


-those eggs in the Sulaco...how?

-a fire-alarm goes off and you eject the entire crew of the ship? I dunno.

-Killing Hicks and Newt really was a big downer. And yet it facilitated much of the positives from the film including the compelling scenes of a grieving Ripley with great acting from Sigourney aswell as the interesting relationship between Ripley and Clemens - so I have a love/hate relationship with the decision to off Hicks and Newt.

-some of the very dated Dog Alien effects

-some of the editing on the extended edition is a bit dodgy like Dillon saying two very similar statements in close proximity during his rallying call speech - ''we're all gonna die, only question is when. This is as good a place as any to take your first steps to heaven.....only question is how you check out'' - it sounds awkward and only seems to have been done to insert that line about heaven as a carry-on from the other religious elements that had been reinserted. While that other stuff is good I think this speech should have been left alone as in the theatrical cut. Then there was another bit just before Ripley kills herself where the music is looped back over itself in a weird way, seemingly just so they can reinsert the line ''You're crazy'' before she lets herself fall. The line adds nothing so I don't know why they felt the need to put it in.

So anyway, if Blomkamp had pulled off a miracle then there could have been 2 viable 3rd movies from which to take my pick depending on my mood. In an ideal world in which he had been able to make a genuinely good film it could perhaps have satisfied any wonder about what might have been with Ripley, Hicks and Newt....or it would have killed them all off anyway.

 

[abake]

Agreed with your points, although I must say that when I first saw it, I wasn't too bothered with the death of Hicks and Newt. It actually gave the movie great dramatic weight. Newt's autopsy and cremation are among the best scenes of any Alien movie.
It's too bad Fincher was so hampered in production. I believe he could have made a true classic.

 

[Jmek]

Agreed with your points, although I must say that when I first saw it, I wasn't too bothered with the death of Hicks and Newt. It actually gave the movie great dramatic weight. Newt's autopsy and cremation are among the best scenes of any Alien movie.
It's too bad Fincher was so hampered in production. I believe he could have made a true classic.

I never understood fans getting pissed off with Newt and Hicks dying. It's a horror movie, horrible things are supposed to happen. And I love Alien 3 and have always considered it a flawed gem, even the theatrical version. And I'm with you on the autopsy / cremation scene, brilliant stuff.

I would like to see Neil get the opportunity to make a movie in the Alien universe though. If Disney were smart they'd let Scott finish his David and Engineers story and let Needs l do something for the Aliens fans.

 

[ironwez20]

I kinda was looking forward to fresh blood in the alien franchise . I wanted to see how he would handle it

 

[rushmore223]

I never got the love for Blomkamp, can't think of a single movie of his I actually liked.

Want new blood? Give it to Villanueve.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Jmek]

I never got the love for Blomkamp, can't think of a single movie of his I actually liked.

Want new blood? Give it to Villanueve.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Conversely I feel that Denis Villanueve is a case of the emperor's new clothes. District 9 beats anything that Villanueve has made thus far, for me personally. I thought Scicario was good, Arrival pretty awful and Blade Runner 2049 was Ok. I'm looking forward to see what he does with Dune though.

 

[rushmore223]

Conversely I feel that Denis Villanueve is a case of the emperor's new clothes. District 9 beats anything that Villanueve has made thus far, for me personally. I thought Scicario was good, Arrival pretty awful and Blade Runner 2049 was Ok. I'm looking forward to see what he does with Dune though.

Blasphemy!

District 9 was his best, but even in that I struggle to remain conscious.

I loved Arrival and Blade Runner, and Sicario and Prisoners were both very good.

Opinions vary.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[ironwez20]

Aw u don?t like chappie?

 

[punisher1974]

Aw u don?t like chappie?

I never saw Chappie. I like District 9. I loved BladeRunner and Sicario. I hope Dune is good. I think either director could do some interesting things in the Alien universe though.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Sicario is one of the best movies in the last 10 years.

Arrival is pretty good. Blade Runner was pretty good. Prisoners was good. Don't forget about Enemy with Jake Gyllenhaal, that movie was great, but too much of a mind-bender for me to enjoy. Sicario, I can watch anytime.

District 9 was, I would say, revolutionary, but Elysium and Chappie were snoozers. I feel like Blomkamp's a one-hit wonder, though I can understand why they gave him an ALIEN movie, that whole 'beaten-down tech" is in his wheelhouse ... speaking of, now that it's official, when's that movie coming out?

 

[j97e1]

Guys, check out the site for Oatsstudios.com
Right away you can recognize Neill's style of scifi and visuals. It's also streaming on amazon prime under 'Oats Studios: Volume 1' .

 

[Khev]

I basically love Alien 3 extended edition. I've watched it twice during the pandemic. It's canon to me.

I am *so* glad you mentioned this because it prompted me to put my unwatched Alien 3 blu-ray in the player last night and watch the entire EE in one sitting. Wow, I *love* this movie!

I can't believe that I waited this long to view the completed EE (I only bought the Quadrilogy because it contained the first two films and it was actually cheaper than buying them individually at the time.) Fast forward to last year when I picked up ALIEN on 4K and then I only kept the set for ALIENS. But I digress.

I will say this. The extended scenes were not new to me. In fact back in the 90's when I was utterly obsessed with all alternate cuts/deleted scenes of what was at the time the Alien "trilogy" I was somehow able to acquire the Alien 3 "workprint" on VHS (which I still have buried in a box somewhere.) It was supposedly David Fincher's original cut but with NO music whatsoever. WOW what a way to watch that movie. It made the whole thing feel like a documentary or found footage or something with no sound whatsoever save for the characters' dialogue and audio FX. I watched the workprint several times back in the day but since I haven't even owned a VHS player in decades it's been sitting in a box ever since.

I did notice a couple changes between the Fincher workprint and the "new" 2003 EE. And both changes favor the WP IMO. The first is that in the WP Morse does *not* tell Ripley to turn on the sprinklers and dowse the *******r. That line was obviously inserted to explain point blank to the audience what was about to happen to the alien and why cooling it off would kill it. The problem is that by giving Morse that line it robs Ripley of her one final act of ingenuity and that was coming to the realization of the sprinklers herself. That should have been her moment, not Morse's. So I was bummed to see that line reinserted. But it was there in the theatrical cut and I only realized its misplacement after seeing it omitted from the Fincher cut so not THAT big a deal I suppose.

The other thing that I found superior in the WP was Ripley's final pause in front of "Bishop II" before saying "no" and closing the gate in front of him. In the WP it's *incredibly* long. I'm talking like a full 10 seconds long! She just stands there, pondering and pondering and pondering, before deciding once and for all that no, she can never trust the company under any circumstances and resigns herself to her fate. In both the theatrical and EE he asks one final time if she'll comply and she basically just immediately says "no" at the end. Same realization in both versions obviously, but I just like those extra little moments drawn out by the WP.

Okay so those are my nitpicks because otherwise I was *so* happy to watch the rest of the extended scenes with Goldenthal's epic and chilling score! Getting to know the prisoners so much better and seeing many of the demises of key characters (Golic, rapist guy who lures it into the waste disposal chamber, etc.) makes for an experience so much richer and satisfying. I miss the dog but I actually prefer the visual effects of the oxburster over that of the dogburster. Though I still think the panther-like prowess of the full alien fits better with it being born out of an attack dog than a lumbering ox. A good scene either way though.

I agree that the dialogue does get a bit repetitive in parts but Dillon has like 10 epic speeches and they're all great so I can forgive a little overlap here and there, lol. So strange to go back to this film after so many years and realize that all these characters are now significantly younger than I am, lol. I don't really notice it with movies that I watch regularly (like SW) but for this one it really stuck out.

Weaver's performance was fantastic, this is usually the point in a franchise where actors start to "phone it in" but I thought that she was as good or better than either prior entry. Everyone was great in fact, all around I'd say that this had the best acted cast out of the series after the original. The score was epic, cinematography fantastic, I got goosebumps watching the final chase sequence through the halls again, this movie holds up spectacularly (I even found the dated puppetry to be quite endearing) like few films from the 80's and 90's have. Thanks again for calling this out a-dev.

 

[abake]

Alien 3 is unfortunately maligned because of Hicks and Newt's demise, but it's a great movie, and the EE even more so.

 

[Khev]

Alien 3 is unfortunately maligned because of Hicks and Newt's demise,

Yep and it was a point of contention with me for years but I consider it to be utterly moot after seeing what Cameron allowed to happen in Dark Fate. Dillon is hardly an "SJW Hicks," lol. Nor is Clemens. They're awesome characters that are completely different in every way and really flesh out the universe while remaining consistent to the tone and style of the previous two entries. I also found the company soldiers led by the Asian man in the mirror shades to be really cool fusions of Scott and Cameron's individual aesthetics.

I also loved how organic and non-linear the narrative felt. It kind of broke from the "this specific event happens solely to set up this scene so that then this can happen" that we tend to see in, well, pretty much every movie ever made, lol. The fact that Ripley was brainstorming how they can let the alien out from the disposal chamber so they can kill it (which traditionally would be the ONLY catalyst for its escape) while Golic ended up opening the door due to a completely *separate* agenda really gave the feel of a living breathing organic world where characters OTHER than the lead are real people who make their own decisions regardless of whether they're in a movie or not. Of course that any good or great movie makes an effort to flesh out more characters than just the primary protagonist/antagonist but I just really felt that this film succeeded particularly well in that regard. Golic in particular a was great and an awesome divergence from the traditional Ash/Burke types who normally sabotage the plans of the heroes in these films.

but it's a great movie, and the EE even more so.

So true.

 

[abake]

Golic is awesome. He's the reason I always called the A3 alien "the dragon". But everybody just insists on calling it the "dog-alien", so
Two other scenes that are amazing:
- Ripley's close escape from being ***** is a really powerful scene, and takes that idea of humanity ****ing each other over to its grotesque conclusion (and Dillon's "I got to re-educate some of the brothers" line is excellent).
- "You've been in my life so long, I can't remember anything else" is one of Ripley's finest moments.

 

[a-dev]

Great to read those posts Khev, nice to so completely agree on this.

It disappoints me how many people still refuse to give Alien 3 a chance - usually on account of it killing Hicks and Newt in the opening credits - Critical Drinker was a recent such case in one of his live streams where Alien 3 came up, possibly in a Terminator discussion. I don't think he and the guy he was talking to realized that it was James Cameron whose idea it was to kill off John Connor in Dark Fate - because if they'd known that they'd surely have seen the contradiction in Cameron hating on Alien 3 for what it did to Hicks and Newt. Cameron himself clearly ought to re-evaluate Alien 3 if he thought it was a good idea to have an Arnold T-800 murder John Connor in the opening 5 minutes of the supposed 'real' Terminator 3 - especially when you consider what the last few minutes of T2 were.

To add to what you and Abake have praised, I'll go with a scene like the one between Clemens and Superintendent Andrews in the latter's office. I love the dialogue they have and how it feeds you various information of the relationship they have, Clemens history there and how Andrews is willing to use it against him. These are two characters who will actually be dead long before the end of the movie and yet I find it a juicy scene which sets up how you will later feel at the moment of their demises.

 

[Python]

I am *so* glad you mentioned this because it prompted me to put my unwatched Alien 3 blu-ray in the player last night and watch the entire EE in one sitting. Wow, I *love* this movie!

Good post, It's nice to see our numbers growing more and more in recent years. Maybe Alien 3 will finally receive the more widespread acclaim it deserves one day after all.

 

[a-dev]

I wonder how David Fincher feels about it these days....

It's so weird. If he had never done an Alien movie and it was announced now (or any time post-Se7en) that he was doing one it'd get people leaning forward in their seats.