OK Somebody give me a good reason not to buy PF Vader

[The Josh]

He didn't kill Mace. He reacted to protect the Chancellor/his friend and father figure. If he was evil or Sith at that point, he would have cut his head off or run him through with his saber. But he didn't.

He didn't kill mace???? Um he cut off his hand leaving him unable to defend himself. He pretty much killed him. In a cour of law he would be an accessory to murder. He might not have been pledged to the Sith but he sure as hell wasn't a Jedi at that point.

However, this act is what pushes Anakin right into Palpatine's outstreached arms. He validates all the nasty little things the Chancellor told Anakin about the Jedi. Remember, Anakin was not there for Palpatines little "I am the Senate" theatrics and he didn't see Palpatine attack first. As far as he knows, Palpatine killed the other Jedi because they were going to do the same thing Mace is about to do - execute him. This really only gives Anakin, in his mind at least, 2 decisions: 1.) Do nothing, let his love die or 2.) react and protect Palpatine. From that point on, he spirals downward.

What he saw and his own selfishness are the final things that help push him into being a full fledged Sith. This event as a whole though is only the final thing that pushes him there are other events in the PT that you see pushing him to being a Sith.

So, up until he commits his first murder (expanded fiction says he kills some Jedi before he gets to the children, but the children are the first on screen) in the name of Palpatine, he is still Anakin and could have turned from the Dark Side. Once he is on Mustafar with Obi-Wan and Padme, he has indeed killed/done too much for his mind to rationize a "return" to the Jedi. The Dark Side, along with his own guilt and inadequacies have rendered him lost to the light.

No, I don't think so. Once he gave himself to Palps it was all over and Anakin died. He was doing everything in the name of his own needs and he had strayed too far from the Jedi way. Again, on top of the other things he had done he was just too far gone.

he was already consumed with anger and everything else that makes a good little sith....he could have used another means of getting the lightsaber from mace...he was bad...a bad, bad boy. besides he stopped mace for his own selfish needs....saving his wife; also killed a helpless dooku, slaughtered sand people, etc.

Yeah, I agree. All these things just show that he was no long Anakin the Jedi but Vader the Sith.

He had been consumed by anger/ killed Sand People since the Clone Wars started. So, by your scale, he was Darth Vader in AOTC?!? How was Anakin going to stop Mace from attacking the Chancellor? He was just going to take the saber away from the best Jedi fighter that ever lived? I will admit, part of saving Palpatine was selfish... but saving a life to save another life... in the long run, that's not so selfish.

The thing is while that didn't make him Vader then it sure did help him stay true to the Jedi way. He might not have been able to just take the saber away from Mace but whacking his hand off and causing him to get killed wasn't very Jedi like. Now was it? He was saving a life of someone else so he could not have to lose them. That's selfish and remember he isn't supposed to love or be married according to the Jedi way. Again, Anakin isn't doing things the way Jedi are supposed to.

Does anyone else see a pattern here?

I will give you Dooku. However, he was acting on the advice/ pressure of Palpatine - who, at that point was his father figure. He didn't kill Dooku out of revenge.. that why he stopped at first and said, "its not right." Palpatine goaded him into doing it. However, it was one more step on the road from Anakin to Vader. Its just I do not think Anakin turned onto "Darth Drive" until he killed the Jedi/younglings in the temple.

He was killing Dooku for part of those yes but also you don't think it wasn't going through his head. You took my arm. I'm taking your head! He's already show countless times that he tends to do things outside the Jedi way.

taking a life to save another life is the path to the darkside(in a yoda voice). piece by piece it all starts coming together and when he gave himself to the emperor/dark side in palpy's office he was a sith. sure he could have changed on mustafar like he did at the end of ROTJ but he was a sith in the emperor's office. i don't know if it was palpy's influence or the darkside....i guess a little of both...without both you don't have darth vader.

Yup, totally agree.

 

[Mini-Rock]

Yeah, old news, and still not enough to warrant another suited PF OT Vader.

2nd, if you take the time to study the ROTS Vader suit, you would realize that its actually really different from the ANH. As they pointed out in one of the ROTS production books, the designers went back and combined the other 3 versions with OT pre-production ideas to modify it enough to look "older" than the OT suits (he WOULD have had it upgraded over the course of 18 years). The helmet design shows the most difference.

Okay, so you are against re-doing suited Vader... but you are willing to sanction 2 Anakins when the only difference would be their eyes and facial expression? With all due respect, that doesn't make sense. You would deny me my wish (new suited Vader in ROTJ armor/pose) so you could have the exact same situation work for your character. And you know what? Add in a David Prowse (or if Lucasarts pushes it, Hayden) "mask off" head and you would have a figure much more different than Ani/Sulkie Ani (sorry, a nickname a girlfriend of mine came up with.. it stuck ).

Since you are willing to accept two Anakins with minimal difference because, "character is totally different", I shall invoke this JLCMSU rule to petition for my ROTJ Vader. When Vader pulls away from the Dark Side to save his son, he redeems himself and becomes Anakin once again. This character, though his suit is similar, is "totally different" from ANH Vader. So, JLCMSU, get me my ROTJ Vader j/k

Sideshow doesn't need to make an Anakin and a Pre-suit Anakin. A simple bonus head ala PF Spike would do the trick. You can even use the Jedi Temple floor for the base: just have a normal Anakin head, then add in an Anakin head that is slightly tilted downward and has Sith eyes. However, as someone else mentioned, I would rather have an Anakin vs. Obi-Wan diorama. I would find someway to buy that if it was done well. And once again, you could provide the bonus head to switch from Anakin battling some Separatist to Sulkie Anakin trying to kill his friend and father figure.

P.S. Okay, this is just my take on Star Wars mythos, but Anakin, to me, doesn't become evil until he kills the younglings. He didn't kill Mace, he reacted to defend the Chancellor. Since he was protecting someone who A.) was a father figure and B.) could save his wife and child(s), that does not make him a Sith. In fact, in my opinion, during that amazingly cool walk to the Jedi Temple, he is still Anakin. At any point, he could have stopped his descent to the Dark Side. Sure, Palpatine had him convinced he couldn't go back.. but that's one of the tricks of the Dark Side. Its not until that first atrocity (which on film is the massacre of the younglings) that he steps over the line and becomes evil. That's why he didn't have the Sith eyes til much later after he had committed more acts of "evil". It was at that point the Dark Side had corrupted him completely. I can name you a serial killer... but until you actual go through with the act, all it is is a name.

P.S. I have no problem with people who call Anakin Vader before the suit. Its not my image, but everyone is entitled to their own.

 

[DouglasMcc]

Yeah, old news, and still not enough to warrant another suited PF OT Vader.

Okay, my last reply to this thread.. for real this time.. since it is really a moot point now that JAWS has a PF Vader. However, I cannot understand why you feel the need to constantly attack my posts. The last comment didn't even add anything useful.. you just quoted me and threw a "yeah, whatever" -style comment in there. I have really enjoyed my comment/post in this thread. While I did not agree with everything that was said, the debate was fun. Everyone else seemed eager to debate their points/views. However, you seem content to tell me I am wrong after EVERY POST. If you would atleast provide some debate to the comments, it would be contructive. I tried to find out what I did to offend you earlier in PM MR. I will make one more attempt here before I file it under "tried, so be it". If I offended you, it wasn't intentional. I respectfully ask you to stop attacking my post, unless you want to debate the points... no need for pointless one-up-manship.

P.S. If anyone wants to continue the debate over Sith Ani, start a new thread and I am there

 

[Mini-Rock]

Not sure how what I said is an "attack," but, whatever; my comment "old news" in response to your "study the ROTS Vader suit and you'll realize" is exactly what it means (old news). Take it how you want; it makes no difference to me, and it still won't change anything regarding another PF OT Vader getting made. It's that simple. And, like I said in response to your PM, it's silly to get upset over anything said on the net; and, I won't alter my posting style to accomodate anyone. That's the way it is, take it or leave it.

BTW, regarding Gru's comment earlier about seeing your collection, it is a relevant request. Seeing your display gives everyone the chance to see where you are coming from, and where your collecting priorities are. Not sure why his comment was taken in a negative way also. It is a legitimate request. All you have to do is post your display(s) in the "Show Your Shelves" section. Done MR :chew

 

[JAWS]

So I am reading this post - Shocked that it has gone down the path that it has and then my wife comes in the room and reads over my shoulder and starts to laugh.

Men we have officially entered the geek zone.

Well let me offer my geeky opinion.

1. When I think of Darth Vader I think of the suit not the sith eyes. I mean that suit is the most recognizable villian in film history. I show that to even the non Star Wars fans and they know who it is. Show them an Anakin statue with sith eyes and hood or not and Vader just won't come to mind for most. Anakin will. Even for the Hard Core Star Wars fans. The Non fans will just think It's a nice Ken Doll in bath robe.

2. I think he truley became vader in spirit after attacking the Jedi temple. Until then he was only Vader in name.

3. The SS pose is not perfect IMO. But the statue is the closest thing to perfect out there. Again IMO.

4. I am not at all opposed to another PF Vader. I would love to have one of him just standing there looking Bad Ass. And I do belive we will see one from SS. I don't care how big of a pain it was to make the first. It Sold. And thats all that matters. We may not see one for a couple of years but I think we will see one. IMO

DouglasMcc I really want to thank you for your opinions on this matter. I agree with you on some of them and it was good to hear from someone who was not all ga ga over the statue. It gave me time to think and not rush into it. And now I feel really good about my purchase.

Of course that is until I get him and that silly pose drives me up a wall .

I also want to thank everyone else for their opinions. They helped ease some of my fears. The pictures really helped.

I will give my final verdict after I get him.

 

[Agent0028]

So I am reading this post - Shocked that it has gone down the path that it has and then my wife comes in the room and reads over my shoulder and starts to laugh.

Men we have officially entered the geek zone.

Please, I live here, y'all musta just decided to join me. After a fellow Star Wars fan asked if me and my friend were "talking about Star Wars againI knew I had troubles.

1. When I think of Darth Vader I think of the suit not the sith eyes. I mean that suit is the most recognizable villian in film history. I show that to even non Star Wars fans and they know who it is. Show them an Anikan statue eyes with hood or not and Vader just won't come to mind for most. Anikan will. Even for the Hard Core Star Wars fans.

It's true, we're constantly referreing to Sith Eyes Anakin and even when we don't say that we have to qualify whether it is before or after the suit.

 

[Agent0028]

My point is that once the stuff happens that happens in Palps office he doesn't listen to reason no matter who it's coming from. Mace is trying to get him to understand and he helps kill him before the younglings are killed.

True, but I was thinking along the lines that he exhibited remorse afterwards, which evil people don't. Well maybe to get a lighter sentence. Although that occured before Palpatine dubbed him Vader so maybe that is the point when Anakin died. Although on the other hand did Anakin truly die? Or was there just that tiny part hidden way down there that came out in ROTJ.

It is kind of. There is enough difference I believe the folks buying the figure could tell you even the casual ones that it was before he became Vader or after. Where as the same fans probably can't tell you yes that's the ROTJ suit or ESB. Personally, I don't want an Ep 1 or 2 Anakin PF figure. 12" yes but use the PF ones for the more important aspects of the characters.

So you want two ROTS Anakins, one with and one without the sith eyes?

Also another thing to factor in with doing that is if you want to display both head you have to buy two figures anyways.

If they made two seperate figures you would have to buy two anyways so the only difference would be the pose. The added benefit of this is that you an get an exclusive (presumably the sith eyed head) from sideshow and get the regular from a dealer for less instead of two exclusive Anakins.

 

[Mini-Rock]

Cool, looking forward to pics!

I will give my final verdict after I get him.

 

[The Josh]

True, but I was thinking along the lines that he exhibited remorse afterwards, which evil people don't. Well maybe to get a lighter sentence. Although that occured before Palpatine dubbed him Vader so maybe that is the point when Anakin died. Although on the other hand did Anakin truly die? Or was there just that tiny part hidden way down there that came out in ROTJ.

Well, he wasn't totally evil while showing remorse but I think it was also because he knew he couldn't go back now. Yeah, when he was dubbed Vader IMO Anakin died. Well, he was put on life support until Luke freed him anyway.

So you want two ROTS Anakins, one with and one without the sith eyes?

I'd like to have a PF Ep3 Anakin. I'd also take on of him becoming Vader with the Sith Eyes if they wanted to do one yes.

If they made two seperate figures you would have to buy two anyways so the only difference would be the pose. The added benefit of this is that you an get an exclusive (presumably the sith eyed head) from sideshow and get the regular from a dealer for less instead of two exclusive Anakins.

Either way it's gonna cost me a lot of money. I'd rather spend a little more and have to complete statues without the worry of changing head.

 

[DouglasMcc]

Okay, I have been dying to ask this question:

Is the PF Vader head movable (left to right) at all? I never tried to move mine for fear of damage. However, this thread intrigued me enough to check eBay and a few other sites for picture of the Vader. And some of them look like the head is turned more towards his right (his saber) than the one I had. Its not a huge angle difference, but it makes a visual difference to me. Can it be modified to move a few inches? Those inches would elevate the pose immensely to me.

 

[The Josh]

Mine doesn't move.

 

[Agent0028]

Mine doesn't move either.

I was thinking about the changing head thing earlier, I think it would be pretty stable. If they used a hole and peg system it would be as stable as the whole figure sitting on the base. Although more likely they would go with a magnet as they did with Leia's arm, so I would expect that to be stable enough as well.

 

[theropod]

Mine doesn't move.

I bet it would move with the aid of a pipe wrench. :maul
-theropod