Predator: Ultimate Hunter Edition Blu Ray

[Reefer Shark]

I think it looks pretty cool going off those comparison shots - will probably pick up the blu.

 

[thenammagazine]

KL241, out of curiosity, have you actual seen this transfer, or are you just against it due to your overall feelings about DNR?

That would be a resounding, "NO." Just like his love life, he's all theory, no practice.

 

[CelticPredator]

I like my 80's films gritty and grainy. Pass on this.

 

[Dynaheir]

But, I can live without the grain. The argument that it was "intended" - I don't buy it. It was a budget/ technology hurdle due to the age of the film/ location of filming. The picture is so much more vibrant and colorful on this new release.

Predator was shot on fast stock, so it has to look grainy. If you scrub away all the grain by automated filters you WILL lose detail. And it's a gritty and dark film, it's not supposed to look like Avatar.
Don't get me wrong, the old MPEG2 encode is far from being perfect, but it is still truer to the source material. The Ultimate DNR Edition is a really disappointing move by Fox to cash in on the release of Predators.
Still, I don't judge you if you buy it for $15 and get $10 movie cash. That is a pretty good deal, but it really sends the wrong message to the studios who release such hack jobs.

It think Robert Harris, who supervised the restoration process of 'The Godfather', said it best on HTF:

I wanted to spend a bit more time examining the new Blu-ray of Predator. This is a film that appears to have been shot thin, with all the requisite problems that come along with fast stock, etc.

I believe I may have figured out what we're now looking at.

And from a technological perspective, I've not come away displeased.

Everyone who cares is aware that Disney has gone back to original elements for the scanning of their classics, has de-grained, cleaned and made every effort to create something that is not restored, but rather a new edition created by using the same elements in a slightly different way, as aided by digital technology. The film elements are fully preserved, and I've never thought this a bad thing.

I believe that a similar situation may have occurred here.

I've put out requests through normal channels for information, and have received back very little. Except for a strange comment from someone who may be in the know. And it's led me in an interesting direction.

What I'm thinking is that the new Blu-ray of Predator is not some heavy-handed hack job, where a tech took a pile driver to the grain and then fully cleansed what remained to the point of oblivion.

Rather, I beginning to believe that this may be an entirely new film.

Using only the original audio mix as a basis, it appears that either Pixar or Dreamworks Animation, may have been brought in to digitally create an entirely new image for the film, based upon the original photographic information.

I'm thinking this because Predator looks decidedly like Monsters vs. Aliens 3D, but of course not yet in 3D. That may be coming.

If this is what's occurred then the new product is rather beautifully rendered, lifelike, and potentially yet another new process.

The overall concept is brilliant. The more that I think about this, the more I need to return to Patton and Longest Day, as I may have erred in my appreciation of those Blu-rays.

If those were earlier incarnations of this same technology...

Hope you get it

Some more screencaps:

Arnies shirt must be made out of some new high-tec material, because it has no texture AT ALL.


"Wax on , wax off..."


Even more wax


Some smearing


And my personal favourite: Arnie swimming in jelly with a 'waterfall' made out of salt in the background.

 

[uscmhicks]

And my personal favourite: Arnie swimming in jelly with a 'waterfall' made out of salt in the background.

 

[jutty]

so you would recommend buying the older blu ray release ,rather than this new one?

 

[Reinhardt]

I want to see that last pic of him by the waterfall, but I'm getting a red x...

 

[Kuzeh]

I want to see that last pic of him by the waterfall, but I'm getting a red x...

Ditto...

Well...
I have both Blu Ray versions...
I like how vivid the Ultimate version looks... but I agree they went a bit overboard with the filtering and "cleaning"... still... looks great overall...
But I do like the grainy look of the original one as well...
Actually they preserved that quite a bit more on Predator 2...
I'll keep both versions...

Regardless, Preds are back!!! !

 

[kl241]

I don't want to get into a flame war, but these are "opinions", it's how an individual feels ... we don't all have to share the same opinion. I respect your point above - just could do with a little less of the "I am right, you are wrong" vibe. But, I like this version (between Blu V1 and this new version). Truth be told, if we are talking about artistic intentions, why even bother to put any movie made before the digital age on Blu-Ray? Many of these films were not made with Hi-Def in mind. When I look at some of my favorite old Sci-Fi films on Blu, the image detail is TOO clear - I can now see all of the seams in the costumes and insert lines for old style special effects, etc. I know this is being facetious, but it serves a point. Besides, it's been awhile since I listened to McTiernan's commentary, but I do remember him saying numerous times lines to the extent "well, we did it this way due to the budget" or I wish we could have done this", etc. So, it's not like even he was completely happy with the final product .... just because an older film has flaws, it doesn't necessarily mean they were intended.

Just to clarify, this isn't the "ultimate" Predator release in my mind. A complete remaster of the original print (similar to the way they are remastering the Twilight Zone episodes for Blu-Ray release) would be preferable. However, I knew the studio wasn't going to spend that kind of money on Predator. However, with that reality in mind, if my choices are Blu V1 (a shoddy transfer of the 2 DVD Collector master) or this new version, I will take the Hunter Version. However, I will continue to hope for a complete restoration for Hi-Def.

KL241, out of curiosity, have you actual seen this transfer, or are you just against it due to your overall feelings about DNR?

As a film director I am against the the process of digitally altering the aesthetic look of film. If that's biased so be it. Film has a natural dream-like image quality that still can't be replicated by digital cameras. I've seen enough horribly scrubbed Bluray releases to know just how bad and artificial DNR scrubbing destroys the film to keep my money in my wallet for this. Having worked with McT on Last Action Hero I think I can say that he would be appalled by what has been done to his film to make it look like CGI animation. This isn't Predator, what they've done to it makes it look more like A Scanner Darkly. Just take a look at Gladiator or Patton. You can argue that they look perfectly "clean" by today's standards but that's the problem inherent right there. All film grain has been scrubbed by digital smearing and fine detail has a waxy gausian blur with considerable edge enhancement applied to artificially sharpen the smeared image causing aliasing and shimmering on fine lines and objects and in some cases the complete removal of fine details like arrows and flames have been removed from shots entirely! The thing is most people are completely ignorant of the fact that any photographic information has been altered or removed and won't even notice or like you, even care that their favorite films have been artificially altered from their original theatrical film look. If that's how you want to watch your movies then knock yourself out but I won't be buying this nor will I support the studios who continue to destroy films with this process.

That would be a resounding, "NO." Just like his love life, he's all theory, no practice.

I'm happily married with 2 kids GFYS.

 

[DouglasMcc]

This isn't Predator, what they've done to it makes it look more like A Scanner Darkly. Just take a look at Gladiator or Patton. You can argue that they look perfectly "clean" by today's standards but that's the problem inherent right there.

Okay, I accept that there are some scenes that lose detail due to the DNR. However, to compare it to A Scanner Darkly is ludicrous. Everyone keeps using the same stock pics as evidence of this and that. Well, there are so few stock pics out there because the true instances are not that frequent. Are there instances of "waxy" texture? Yes. Are they rampant? No. Would I still chose the Hunter Version? Yes. To me, the V1 blu ray was not worth upgrading from the DVD collectors edition. I watched scenes from both versions (with my player upscaling the DVD to 1080p) and could barely see a difference. I see a difference in the Hunter version. Is it the perfect rendition? Of course not. But, I am a realist ... the studio is not going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to re-master a film like this, no matter how popular it is.

I am glad you mentioned Gladiator. I remember the furor that arose when that was released. I actually tried to cancel my pre-purchase when the scenes of missing arrow heads and the like popped up. Yes, there are some waxy complexions ... heck, even more so than Predator. But, no where so bad that it ruined the movie for me. And, I have yet to see any of the mysterious disappearing arrow heads and flames. Just because you can free a single frame down to ... what a fraction of a second ... and spot a glitch, doesn't mean the whole transfer is ruined. It's what the human eye can see in motion that counts. Now, as I said before, I would much rather have gotten a new remaster for both of these films (and since Gladiator was a newer 100 million dollar, Oscar winning film, I can't see why they didn't). Hell, Braveheart, which was released at the same time, showed us what that kind of care could have accomplished. However, I still have both Predator Hunter Edition and Gladiator in my Blu collection, because they are upgrades to my old DVD editions and I will not let minor defects keep me from owning them. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[DouglasMcc]

I will not repost the entire Robert Harris diatribe posted above, but it goes a long way to show how biased old school film makers/buffs are. I wonder if Harris has actually seen a recent Pixar film? It always irritates me when someone insults CGI, just for the sake of putting it down. I have seen Toy Story 3 twice now and I can honestly say, in my opinion, those little "waxy" CGI animations convey more life, emotion, and humanity than any other live action film I have seen this year - and I have seen a lot of them. CGI is not evil people. Without it, we would have alot more dead/ crippled/ injured stunt people, scaled down action scenes (due to both budget and safety regulations), etc. Does it irritate me when a film maker uses CGI for something minor that could have been accomplished by real people? Sure. But, hating CGI for CGI's sake is just silly.


P.S. If Pixar were to recreate Predator .... or any older film for that matter ... I would be there in line opening day. Because Pixar is the only major film studio I will support/ go to see their movies without any knowledge of the film. I trust PIXAR completely.

 

[kl241]

The point is there was NO CGI in the original Predator.

 

[occulum]

Im anti-CGI & anti-Prosthetics / make up. (its the cool way to be these days)

I support the Bill Hicks idea of using terminally ill people instead and sending them out with a BANG! .. ...

 

[Staps1138]

I just got this yesterday at WM for $15 with the Predators coupon. I know it just came out but has anybody found any Easter eggs yet?

 

[DouglasMcc]

The point is there was NO CGI in the original Predator.

"Due to health and safety regulations, Arnold Schwarzenegger was not allowed to light his cigar inside the helicopter near the beginning of the film. As a result the glow was added optically in post-production. "

Maybe not modern CGI per say, but the pre-cursor to CGI. Sorry, no offense, but my smartass valve was at full and I had to release some steam some where ... lol

 

[Furious1]

Douglas, I think you are missing everyones point. People are complaining that the movie no longer represents the original filmakers intent from an image perspective. Sure there was some cleaning and restoration to be done to clean up some of the unintentional noise of the transfer, but many are saying that this is DNR'd to the point of being ridiculous. I, for one will judge after I watch it for myself. The original Blu transfer didnt bother me at all, because I understand that this is a 20+ year old movie, and there is only so much that can be done with it. Therefore I will be buying this mainly for the extra stuff not included on the original blu release.

Edit: well said Estel

 

[uscmhicks]

When 80s films are all grainy it kind of gives them a soul so to speak.
It will seem odd seeing predator without any , still I'm buying it just to see what I think. I've stil got the definitive dvd and I'm not buying the other predator blu , I could barely see a difference.

 

[Kuzeh]

Come on people...
this was a low budget Hollywood Sci-Fi/Action movie...
"The Director's artistic vision" if there was any, I'm sure is far from what we ended up getting...
If you like it, great, buy it... if not get the first BD release before it goes OOP...

 

[Biojex]

How bout that sound quality eh eh? nice huh? eh? ok...I'll leave now.

 

[8th wonder]

Come on people...
this was a low budget Hollywood Sci-Fi/Action movie...
"The Director's artistic vision" if there was any, I'm sure is far from what we ended up getting...
If you like it, great, buy it... if not get the first BD release before it goes OOP...

There certainly was an artistic vision! Mctiernan is heavily schooled in european cinema and took that with him to the project, from innovative camera-work to using personal nightmares (Dutch running from the self- destruct mechanism). Sure, someone who doesn't really know about the art of filmmaking will just see a Schwarzenegger action movie but the trained viewer will see allot more. For the ones interested, listen to one of Mctiernan's commentaries (Die Hard, Predator) the man knows his stuff!