Presidential Debate Tonight - Obama vs. McCain.... DING, DING, DING

[Mesa]

This thread is turning nasty (again) but here's some more spin - it's never as simple as a propaganda video and it's not as simple as this article -

Quote:
And It All Started with Deregulation

In 2000, Edward M. Gramlich, a Federal Reserve Board member, repeatedly warned about sub-prime mortgages and predatory lending, which he said "jeopardize the twin American dreams of owning a home and building wealth." He tried to get chairman Alan Greenspan to crack down on irrational sub-prime lending by increasing oversight, but his warnings fell on deaf ears, including those in Congress.

https://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_conservative_origins_of_the_subprime_mortgage_crisis

This is where we as a country went wrong and our government failed us. And everything I've read and heard said several goverment leaders (i.e. Bush and McCain) tried to stop it with bills and laws that were rejected by the Democrats in Congress. I realize Bush doesn't make the laws, that's not a function of the executive branch, but he warned us of the writing on the wall and congress did nothing to protect us.

https://www.newsmax.com/kessler/gse_financial_timeline/2008/09/22/133234.html

2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying, "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

2008
March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

That's what is so frustrasting. Everyone wants to blame Bush for this, because it's the easiest thing to do. But the fact remains that he made repeated requests to Congress, now controlled by the Democrats, to put legislation in place, and was repeatedly ignores. The president doesn't make the laws, Congress makes the laws. And the few attempts that were made, McCain backed on of them, to help address the problem, were rejected by the Democrats in Congress.

https://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-93581

September 11, 2003

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.


Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.


The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.


The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt - is broken.

A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005

The United States Senate

May 25, 2006

Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]: Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae's regulator reported that the company's quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were "illusions deliberately and systematically created" by the company's senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac-known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs-and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO's report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO's report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

McCain said 'I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.'
Alas, thanks to the Democrat Party and the special interests of the left, both of these attempts to reform the banking system were still born.

It's all online, so easy to get the facts now. More I'm getting involved, more I'm learing this was a ticking time bombed for YEARS and our congress did nothing about it.

 

[Mesa]

thought you were leaving.

I'm back. A swimming pool is very relaxing. 100 degrees in Phoenix today.

you brought up change... if i have to explain to you all of the "change " happening under your nose while you, in your own words, have your "head in the sand". then i am fighting a pointless battle.

You obviously missed my sarcasm.

This link you provide, what is it's point? seriously, I'm missing it. I did give you the respect to at least try and change my mind, and this is what I read:

Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1

3rd Infantry’s 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping ‘people at home’ may become a permanent part of the active Army

The 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team has spent 35 of the last 60 months in Iraq patrolling in full battle rattle, helping restore essential services and escorting supply convoys.

Now they’re training for the same mission — with a twist — at home.

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home. In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas.

But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.

And it goes on to talk about military planning of enrollment and deployment. So I ask again, what does that have to do with what we are currently discussing?

 

[monkeydad16]

that's like wanting a 73 year old mechanic work on a 2008 BMW.

And the other option is like letting a teenager run a company.

 

[Mesa]

And the other option is like letting a teenager run a company.

that announces to the world he wants to attack Pakistan. Nice. So much for the sneak attack and element of surprise. what a rookie move. I hope he never ever gains command of our military.

 

[automaton]

And the other option is like letting a teenager run a company.

no, it isn't. the other option is letting a mechanic, familiar with the way things are done today... with modern ideas and technology... with a more relevant point of view and skill set to have a look under the hood.

 

[Darklord Dave]

that announces to the world he wants to attack Pakistan. Nice. So much for the sneak attack and element of surprise. what a rookie move. I hope he never ever gains command of our military.

Attack Pakistan? Now THAT'S spin. He said he would strike within Pakistan to get at terrorists if that's where the intel leads.

He'd probably tell the Pakistan government a few minutes before the strike too - that's just good manners.

 

[monkeydad16]

A relevant point of view? You must mean the church he goes to or his political friends (Bill Ayers) or his VP candidate who said Israel will just have to deal with a nuclear Iran.

 

[RoboDad]

no, it isn't. the other option is letting a mechanic, familiar with the way things are done today... with modern ideas and technology... with a more relevant point of view and skill set to have a look under the hood.

No, it's more like letting someone who WANTS to be a mechanic, but whose entire knowledge comes from reading a Chilton's manual, work on your Lamborghini.

 

[automaton]

so you would rather carry on down the same path, but with a 73 year old man with health concerns and a hockey mom form alaska leading the way?

the GOP have many right where they want them it seems.

this thread only proves that our education system needs reform.

The world wants a great United States but reality is just too liberal for most Americans.

 

[RoboDad]

Which "health concerns" would those be?

And as for what "the world" wants, when they start voting in American elections and paying American taxes, then we'll worry about what they want. Last time I checked, we don't elect "the world's" leaders, and they don't elect ours.

Our job as citizens of this country is to do all that we can to make it everything it can and should be. If the rest of the world likes what we make of it, great. If not, too bad.

We can disagree about what constitutes "everything it can and should be", but when you start tossing around veiled insults and demonstrating that you suffer from some kind of superiority complex, it does nothing to further the discussion.

 

[Mesa]

Attack Pakistan? Now THAT'S spin. He said he would strike within Pakistan to get at terrorists if that's where the intel leads.

He'd probably tell the Pakistan government a few minutes before the strike too - that's just good manners.

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Okay, you're right, I misquoted. First time ever.

But still, Obama's solution is to abandon the victories made in Iraq per some timetable regardless of Iraq's abilities to govern and protect themselves and then move over into Pakistan to strike at terrorists there? How is that any better than Bush taking his eye off of Bin Laden in Afghanistan and focusing on Iraq?

 

[KitFisto]

so you would rather carry on down the same path, but with a 73 year old man with health concerns and a hockey mom form alaska leading the way?

the GOP have many right where they want them it seems.

this thread only proves that our education system needs reform.

The world wants a great United States but reality is just too liberal for most Americans.

Ahhhh yes, the ol' "Agree with me and my views or you're stupid" argument. We hardly ever see that one.

 

[monkeydad16]

Which "health concerns" would those be?

And as for what "the world" wants, when they start voting in American elections and paying American taxes, then we'll worry about what they want. Last time I checked, we don't elect "the world's" leaders, and they don't elect ours.

Our job as citizens of this country is to do all that we can to make it everything it can and should be. If the rest of the world likes what we make of it, great. If not, too bad.

We can disagree about what constitutes "everything it can and should be", but when you start tossing around veiled insults and demonstrating that you suffer from some kind of superiority complex, it does nothing to further the discussion.

You sir, are a great American.

 

[FQRizzo]

No, it's more like letting someone who WANTS to be a mechanic, but whose entire knowledge comes from reading a Chilton's manual, work on your Lamborghini.

Likening our country (and economy) to a Lamborghini is hilarious.

 

[Starkiller]

so you would rather carry on down the same path, but with a 73 year old man with health concerns and a hockey mom form alaska leading the way?
.

LOL.

I am a liberal, I am a democrat, I am pro choice, I want stricter laws on firearms, I believe Obama won the debate, and I also believe that John McCain cannot give us the change we so desperately need. No matter who says what I will vote for who I think is:
A: Better fit for the job
B. Someone who can get us out of this mess that the Republicans started
C: Be an charismatic, energetic leader and create change
D. Fix the economy
E. Bring fresh ideas and fresh perspectives
F. Has more knowledge than his opponent

That is why I am voting for Obama. McCain just doesn't have these qualities. He preaches we are winning in Iraq. Winning what? He makes these outrageous comments during the debate that Barack "Just didn't understand" But then Barack came back countered each nonsense remark from McCain and threw it back into his face. Obama made McCain look bad, and it was great.

 

[Mesa]

LOL.

I am a liberal, I am a democrat, I am pro choice, I want stricter laws on firearms, I believe Obama won the debate, and I also believe that John McCain cannot give us the change we so desperately need. No matter who says what I will vote for who I think is:
A: Better fit for the job
B. Someone who can get us out of this mess that the Republicans started
C: Be an charismatic, energetic leader and create change
D. Fix the economy
E. Bring fresh ideas and fresh perspectives
F. Has more knowledge than his opponent

That is why I am voting for Obama. McCain just doesn't have these qualities. He preaches we are winning in Iraq. Winning what? He makes these outrageous comments during the debate that Barack "Just didn't understand" But then Barack came back countered each nonsense remark from McCain and threw it back into his face. Obama made McCain look bad, and it was great.

Looks like you really did your research.

I dare you to read my quote below. I just dare you.


https://www.newsmax.com/kessler/gse_financial_timeline/2008/09/22/133234.html

2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying, "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

2008
March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

That's what is so frustrasting. Everyone wants to blame Bush for this, because it's the easiest thing to do. But the fact remains that he made repeated requests to Congress, now controlled by the Democrats, to put legislation in place, and was repeatedly ignores. The president doesn't make the laws, Congress makes the laws. And the few attempts that were made, McCain backed on of them, to help address the problem, were rejected by the Democrats in Congress.

https://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-93581

September 11, 2003

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.


Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.


The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.


The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt - is broken.

A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005

The United States Senate

May 25, 2006

Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]: Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae's regulator reported that the company's quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were "illusions deliberately and systematically created" by the company's senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac-known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs-and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO's report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO's report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

McCain said 'I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.'
Alas, thanks to the Democrat Party and the special interests of the left, both of these attempts to reform the banking system were still born.

 

[Mesa]

LOL.

I am a liberal, I am a democrat, I am pro choice, I want stricter laws on firearms, I believe Obama won the debate, and I also believe that John McCain cannot give us the change we so desperately need. No matter who says what I will vote for who I think is:
A: Better fit for the job
B. Someone who can get us out of this mess that the Republicans started
C: Be an charismatic, energetic leader and create change
D. Fix the economy
E. Bring fresh ideas and fresh perspectives
F. Has more knowledge than his opponent

That is why I am voting for Obama. McCain just doesn't have these qualities. He preaches we are winning in Iraq. Winning what? He makes these outrageous comments during the debate that Barack "Just didn't understand" But then Barack came back countered each nonsense remark from McCain and threw it back into his face. Obama made McCain look bad, and it was great.

Okay, I have to leave this thread again, I just threw up a little in my mouth.

 

[The Ween]

Okay, I have to leave this thread again, I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Mesa, are you sure you're an independent?

 

[automaton]

Ahhhh yes, the ol' "Agree with me and my views or you're stupid" argument. We hardly ever see that one.

i am not saying "Agree with me and my views or you're stupid"

i am saying the idea of entrusting a 73 year old man with health concerns and a moose hunting hockey mom with the leadership of this country is stupid.

 

[DarkArtist81]

i am not saying "Agree with me and my views or you're stupid"

i am saying the idea of entrusting a 73 year old man with health concerns and a moose hunting hockey mom with the leadership of this country is stupid.

Ditto. It funny how this thread continues to go south.

When will you guys learn that NOBODY is going to change their minds. Everyone believes in whatever angle they are coming from, they believe in the candidate they believe in... Nothing you guys cut and past from some website is going to change that.

As for "victory in Iraq"... we got that line of garbage from Bush, and we are still there. They said it would be over quickly, it's been 5 years... We've wasted money and lives in a campaign that has absolutely no guarantee of achieving anything. Even if we stayed for another 5 years, built up their infrastructure and democracy... as soon as we pull out... things can go south.

We need to slowly hand the Iraqis the reigns and get out while we still have the power to help our OWN people out of possible poverty. Focus on Al Quada, and punish the people who actually attacked us on 9/11. But that's just me...