PT Changing How You View The OT

[Prime Clone]

There is one hell of a parallel between Mace Windu being electrocuted and Anakin doing nothing about it and Vader seeing Luke get the same thing. That's so clearly the big turning point now. It seems like its the moment he sees how wrong he was.

I was about to post exactly the same thing!

 

[pixletwin]

I think ROTJ surpassed ESB as my favorite SW movie because of the PT. I also wonder if the reason why Vader puts off killing Leia in ANH was because he sensed that she was his kin somehow. It just seems like he exausts every avenue open to him before he relents to Tarkin's wish to kill her.

 

[Prime Clone]

When in the OT did Vader really see Threepio? The only time I can think of was at Cloud City when he was in pieces on Chewie's back in the freezing chamber, and I can accept the dismantled droid getting overlooked under the circumstances.

Well, there was this "deleted scene" from the Star Wars Tales comic ...

 

[Darthrazz]

_plus, now I don't think Leia knew Obi-Wan was a Jedi...

You don't think she did? I'm sure that she must have known.

 

[Darren Carnall]

you know... that comic thing with vader and threepio actually kind of works (I'm a sentimental fool)

I agree with most of what's been said in this thread.... watching the PT definitely adds to the OT when watching again.

As for creating a strong connection between both sets of films, and making the OT seem stronger somehow.... i just LOVE this video, I found it online ages ago, can't even remember where... but I uploaded it to youtube just so I could show it to you lot (re-edited to make the fight snappier.... more energetic... using the music "battle of the heroes" it really reminds you of the fight in Ep. III.... and the fact that it's Anakin inside that suit.)

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[IrishJedi]

I still actually find it difficult to reconcile all six films as one, cohesive whole. There are just too many holes for me (both continuity and plot-wise and things like the fact that the technology drops off so jarringly between ROTS and ANH... Lucas went WAY too far with the CG in the prequels, imho).

For me, I still view them as two one-off trilogies. Both "Star Wars" and part of a saga, but not at all one "13 hour movie". It just doesn't work fro me in that way. For me, it feels contrived and forced to have to view them all cohesively and seemlessly.

 

[pixletwin]

The drop in technology doesn't bug me at all. Under the Emperor I can see how technology would have been a means of keeping the people down, not to mention the thought that the Republic was a Golden Age and the Empire was ushering in a Dark Age.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[minivader]

The PT pretty much ruined OT for me. For one, vader is way lame in the PT, and that scream at the end of ep3 "noooooooooooo" or whatever is so cliche that it pretty much reduce vader into homer simpson who just lost his donut. Now I can't watch the OT and just think luke is lame, his father is too.

 

[Roc74]

The PT pretty much ruined OT for me. For one, vader is way lame in the PT, and that scream at the end of ep3 "noooooooooooo" or whatever is so cliche that it pretty much reduce vader into homer simpson who just lost his donut. Now I can't watch the OT and just think luke is lame, his father is too.

Well now you know where he gets his lameness....

 

[minivader]

Well now you know where he gets his lameness....

I thought it was because of Luke's uncle and aunt, but I guess its genetic.

 

[Amanaman]

To those interested in learning more about this perception-morphing phenomenon, read this (free) ebook. https://www.secrethistoryofstarwars.com/book.html

It is based largely on GL's own words. You'll also see how the Expanded Universe and many other factors influenced the direction of the sequels. You will learn how, over the years, the direction of the story has changed.

Sure, it's opinionated, and it may even offend some, but if you want to know how far things have deviated from 1977, and if want to understand how imperfect and malleable the creative process is, then this is your book.

In a nutshell, the original Star Wars (before it was called A New Hope) was a simple good-versus-evil story, and not about the tragedy of Anakin. When ESB hit in 1980, it confined what was once the open-ended, self-contained story of ANH into a smaller world by tying the protagonists with the main villain(amongst other things).

In the space of those 16 years from ROTJ to TPM, the PT's plot could have gone either way. People change over time, and GL wasn't the hungry, driven 30-something anymore. The PT has definitely changed how one 'should' view the OT, but it doesn't mean that you have to adopt it wholesale.

To those who love everything SW, please continue doing so, but I think that this book settles the score best, as to why some folks were disappointed with the direction of the franchise.

As for me, I tend to prefer the original iterations of good ideas, so McQuarrie's artwork and SW 1977 are the core of what SW is to me. Some bits of TPM(my favorite in the PT) looked promising, which sadly weren't expanded upon, while some bad elements were dragged on too far into ROTS.

 

[Prime Clone]

True, the PT makes Vader a less fearsome/more tragic character now that we know who's in the suit. Even Lucas refers to him as a "cripple" that the Emperor wants to replace.

Also, Obi-Wan's line in ROTJ that "when I first met your father he was already a great pilot" always made me think of a young adult Anakin. Now of course we know he was a nine-year-old boy!

 

[pixletwin]

I prefer tragedy over villainy anyway.

 

[D. Martin]

To those interested in learning more about this perception-morphing phenomenon, read this (free) ebook. https://www.secrethistoryofstarwars.com/book.html

One very solid argument against this is the Journal Of The Whills... the first few pages of the original Star Wars novel. The Journal Of The Whills very clearly outlines the prequel story. Sure, its in broad strokes and has a focus on Sidious, it certainly held up as being accurate when all is said and done.

 

[MaulFan]

Also, Obi-Wan's line in ROTJ that "when I first met your father he was already a great pilot" always made me think of a young adult Anakin. Now of course we know he was a nine-year-old boy!

See, that's one area where I struggle with because of continuity errors. The speech leads you to think Obi-Wan was out and about and discovered Anakin Skywalker, a skilled pilot strong with The Force and took him on as his student. While I enjoy the Qui-Gon > Obi-Wan > Anakin story arc, it really makes the Old Ben's speech have no relevance to actual events, other than the part of "I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda, I was wrong."

 

[D. Martin]

I prefer tragedy over villainy anyway.

Me too.


...................................................

 

[Coorectghosting]

One very solid argument against this is the Journal Of The Whills... the first few pages of the original Star Wars novel. The Journal Of The Whills very clearly outlines the prequel story. Sure, its in broad strokes and has a focus on Sidious, it certainly held up as being accurate when all is said and done.

Hm how so? I don't get that impression from reading about it here

https://www.secrethistoryofstarwars.com/journalofthewhillspart2.html

 

[Wor-Gar]

it really makes the Old Ben's speech have no relevance to actual events, other than the part of "I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda, I was wrong."

Even that is undermined in the PT. He instructs Ani because of his promise to his dying Master. In ANH, the dialogue hints that Ben is more like Qui-Gon in the sense that he might have taken it upon himself against the wishes of others. It seems that Ben Kenobi is constantly diced up as sequels appear. First, he is the key mentor.... then in ESB, there's an even greater mentor... then in the PT, Qui-Gon becomes the "Ben" character, while Obi-Wan is given instructions to train Anakin...and after a chat with Yoda, he is allowed to pursue it. Originally, in ANH, it seemed that it was Ben who discovered Anakin and began his training (PT decided that honor would now go to Qui-Gon).

Of course, once Ben uttered "it all depends on your point of view" he really became an untrustworthy source of information.

 

[pixletwin]

I see the vagueness and half truths Obi-Wan told as giving more depth to his character. If he told Luke the whole story at the very begining it would have seemed scripted and hollow. ANH makes it look like Obi-Wan is far more matured in his view of the world (the PT Kenobi was a bit of a "Boy Scout") and he only tells Luke as much as he needed to know.

Luke learned his past line upon line, precept upon precept instead of in one fat talk with Ben.

 

[Prime Clone]

In ANH, the dialogue hints that Ben is more like Qui-Gon in the sense that he might have taken it upon himself against the wishes of others... then in the PT, Qui-Gon becomes the "Ben" character, while Obi-Wan is given instructions to train Anakin. Originally, in ANH, it seemed that it was Ben who discovered Anakin and began his training (PT decided that honor would now go to Qui-Gon).

There's an explanation for all that. Lucas has said Obi-Wan was originally intended to play Qui-Gon's role, but be torn over whether to train Anakin. He eventually decided to split him into two characters, the believer and the skeptic.