Sideshow Dealers speak out!
- Thread starter Darklord Dave
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Theres another point i think should be made. If Sideshow sells 100% of their product they will drop exclusives as there won't be any need for them and their prices will be high. I'm all for free market and allowing retailers sell their product. Anything to control prices and also to protect exclusives.
The Godfather
Just Business
I only can speak for me my own I don't know what other dealers issues are or maybe.
I am not sure what has really gone down here. I can say yeah sometimes things don't go the way I would want them but my family and I have been in the business of selling Limited edition products in one form or another for over 20 years. I will say that allocations is not a word I like to hear but you know what it happens with every company I deal with. I try my best to plan according and so far that has worked out pretty well. I normally never sell the full amount I have on order to make sure that I can fill orders and still have some for replacements if need be when something is wrong. I do get cut but its just part of business.
Sideshow is not out to make sure that Fireside or any other of the dealers we all know stays in business that is our job.
I will continue to sell SS items and if your orders are being dropped by dealers let me know and I will do my best to get it for you like I always have.
I am not sure what has really gone down here. I can say yeah sometimes things don't go the way I would want them but my family and I have been in the business of selling Limited edition products in one form or another for over 20 years. I will say that allocations is not a word I like to hear but you know what it happens with every company I deal with. I try my best to plan according and so far that has worked out pretty well. I normally never sell the full amount I have on order to make sure that I can fill orders and still have some for replacements if need be when something is wrong. I do get cut but its just part of business.
Sideshow is not out to make sure that Fireside or any other of the dealers we all know stays in business that is our job.
I will continue to sell SS items and if your orders are being dropped by dealers let me know and I will do my best to get it for you like I always have.
hmmm. ... interesting... I was under the impression he was upset that his orders were being allocated and he couldnt fulfill his own customers' orders that were placed quite awhile back, and then wasnt being notified of the shortage until ship time rolls around.
But if he's just angry that SS is cutting back on the volume he can order from the start, then I can understand why he's frustrated, but business is business.
.. as Chicky said, not all the info is always laid out on the table.
thanks for the clarity MC.
.. but the best part of all this was watching someone post that SS had gone bankrupt and then others actually BELIEVED it. SS is the Juggernaut of the collectibles community right now IMO. .. the future is bright.
and people don't just order from SS cause of the exclusives, one of the main reasons I do consitently is because of the faith in their CS should any problems arise.
But if he's just angry that SS is cutting back on the volume he can order from the start, then I can understand why he's frustrated, but business is business.
.. as Chicky said, not all the info is always laid out on the table.
thanks for the clarity MC.
.. but the best part of all this was watching someone post that SS had gone bankrupt and then others actually BELIEVED it. SS is the Juggernaut of the collectibles community right now IMO. .. the future is bright.
and people don't just order from SS cause of the exclusives, one of the main reasons I do consitently is because of the faith in their CS should any problems arise.
Mithrandier
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Don't think that Dave meant for this to be a he said she said thread.................but if the guy said what you stated above Bullseye, he has nothin against SS............................what is he doing?
Added to post - Never mind-as seen below.
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chiky, andy, azog, michael:
like chiky stated, everything discussed between sideshow and me was not posted. i would be more than happy to post copies of the emails but i don't think that is needed.
what i did state to sideshow that myself like many other companies that contacted me (which i have mentioned to sideshow previously) had some concerns. the bottom line was that i was not asking them to bend the rules for me specifically. what i asked was that if we are very limited in selling sideshow products (as in quantity), it would be great if we knew how many we were going to receive before it is released, not the day it ships. other manufacturers do that. now, we can sell less than what we ordered but if you get allocated 75% of your order, that's something that nobody expects.
my decision to cancel orders was more so because i don't know if i will be able to fill those orders. i find that to be a disservice to my clients. i would be more than happy to see if fireside or anyone else can fill the order. i don't have any problems in filling orders with any other manufacturer. i buy all my product direct from the manufacturer and they seem to work with me. if asking to be notified for allocations within a reasonable amount of time is too much, then i am in the wrong. i do know that my clients want to feel safe when they purchase from me. i cannot offer them any security when i have no clue of what i will receive. maybe not purchasing sideshow any longer is a disservice to them or a bad idea. but, if they can get security from purchasing direct, from fireside or anyone else, i am all for that. i just can't give that to them. myself, like other shops, have either decided now or in the past to not carry sideshow because of this.
don't get me wrong. i love sideshow, their employees and their product. i never disrespected any of them at least with intention. i still support them and plan to continue supporting them. i just think that i should not be one to sell their product. from speaking with sideshow, we seem to be in agreement and there are no hard feelings. i know many don't agree with me but that's ok. it's hard to please everyone. one has to just try to do the best they can.
so chiky, andy, azog and the rest. my apologies if you feel that i disrespected you or anyone else. at the same time, not being able to create a thread at statue forum for 2 days in the sideshow section should not really affect anyone that badly. you have an awesome forum here to post any time you want. it has a great group of people so nothing should have been lost. if something was lost, again, my apologies.
like chiky stated, everything discussed between sideshow and me was not posted. i would be more than happy to post copies of the emails but i don't think that is needed.
what i did state to sideshow that myself like many other companies that contacted me (which i have mentioned to sideshow previously) had some concerns. the bottom line was that i was not asking them to bend the rules for me specifically. what i asked was that if we are very limited in selling sideshow products (as in quantity), it would be great if we knew how many we were going to receive before it is released, not the day it ships. other manufacturers do that. now, we can sell less than what we ordered but if you get allocated 75% of your order, that's something that nobody expects.
my decision to cancel orders was more so because i don't know if i will be able to fill those orders. i find that to be a disservice to my clients. i would be more than happy to see if fireside or anyone else can fill the order. i don't have any problems in filling orders with any other manufacturer. i buy all my product direct from the manufacturer and they seem to work with me. if asking to be notified for allocations within a reasonable amount of time is too much, then i am in the wrong. i do know that my clients want to feel safe when they purchase from me. i cannot offer them any security when i have no clue of what i will receive. maybe not purchasing sideshow any longer is a disservice to them or a bad idea. but, if they can get security from purchasing direct, from fireside or anyone else, i am all for that. i just can't give that to them. myself, like other shops, have either decided now or in the past to not carry sideshow because of this.
don't get me wrong. i love sideshow, their employees and their product. i never disrespected any of them at least with intention. i still support them and plan to continue supporting them. i just think that i should not be one to sell their product. from speaking with sideshow, we seem to be in agreement and there are no hard feelings. i know many don't agree with me but that's ok. it's hard to please everyone. one has to just try to do the best they can.
so chiky, andy, azog and the rest. my apologies if you feel that i disrespected you or anyone else. at the same time, not being able to create a thread at statue forum for 2 days in the sideshow section should not really affect anyone that badly. you have an awesome forum here to post any time you want. it has a great group of people so nothing should have been lost. if something was lost, again, my apologies.
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Darklord Dave
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Thanks for responding Danny, I created the thread so that there could possibly be a wider spectrum of dealer experience for people to judge from. But I appreciate you taking the time to post your point of view here.
Chicky
SSC VIP Goddess
As I stated before Bulls Eye not all the details are usually posted. Danny is of course welcome to post where he likes.
If you have a LIMITED EDITION, which wholesaler exactly should get the items first? The biggest account? The one with the most clients? The oldest client? The newest client? The one with the perfect payment history? It is our opinion that the only fair way to do it, is to allocate the edition.
If you make editions to match the orders that the wholesalers give you, then the edition size balloons, wholesalers begin loosing money as the retail value plunges from mass available items and sellers. When this happens, we see a great deal of wholesale accounts cancel or trim their initial pre-orders because none of their collectors want something that is easily acquired nor do they want to pay retail for it when they can get it for otherwise. Ref: Sauron.
I appreciate JJF's point. "Sideshow is not out to make sure that Fireside or any other of the dealers we all know stays in business that is our job." If wholesalers feel that carryiong our product is not working for them, they can choose not to carry it as Statue Forum has done.
Best,
Chicky
Sideshow
If you have a LIMITED EDITION, which wholesaler exactly should get the items first? The biggest account? The one with the most clients? The oldest client? The newest client? The one with the perfect payment history? It is our opinion that the only fair way to do it, is to allocate the edition.
If you make editions to match the orders that the wholesalers give you, then the edition size balloons, wholesalers begin loosing money as the retail value plunges from mass available items and sellers. When this happens, we see a great deal of wholesale accounts cancel or trim their initial pre-orders because none of their collectors want something that is easily acquired nor do they want to pay retail for it when they can get it for otherwise. Ref: Sauron.
I appreciate JJF's point. "Sideshow is not out to make sure that Fireside or any other of the dealers we all know stays in business that is our job." If wholesalers feel that carryiong our product is not working for them, they can choose not to carry it as Statue Forum has done.
Best,
Chicky
Sideshow
Chicky believe me i love Sideshows product and buy only from yourselves simply as this is the only way i can buy exclusives. Danny has already posted above and is well able to defend himself. I was just making the point that he should be invited over to give his side of the story which he has.
Shadow King
The shadow of death
I figure we should say something as well.
Allocation is a difficult problem that every retailer must deal with, brick and morter or online, as it is the nature of retail business. We have been dealing with it since day one and will have to continue to deal with it. We have done well with this problem so far and hope to continue that success.
As for Sideshow, they have made some decisions to help themselves as they should and it is understandable. They still support us and we support them so this goes both ways. As a company Sideshow has treated retailers, like ourselves, better then any company I have ever dealt with. Our intent is to stay in business a very long time with Sideshow products in our inventory.
Allocation is a difficult problem that every retailer must deal with, brick and morter or online, as it is the nature of retail business. We have been dealing with it since day one and will have to continue to deal with it. We have done well with this problem so far and hope to continue that success.
As for Sideshow, they have made some decisions to help themselves as they should and it is understandable. They still support us and we support them so this goes both ways. As a company Sideshow has treated retailers, like ourselves, better then any company I have ever dealt with. Our intent is to stay in business a very long time with Sideshow products in our inventory.
Michael Crawford
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Hey drod - I have nothing against you, and as I said in my post, I have no doubt there are, and have heard from, a great many retailers who are upset. What we have here is a basic frustration on both sides as a manufacturer and their retailers try to find a happy place within a tough economy. Right now, there are similar issues going on with other manfacturers, including MR. This is going to be a rough year, and when that happens, people will do what they can to survive. There is rarely a 'good guy' and 'bad guy' in these issues (although people feel more comfortable when there is), but rather both sides doing everything the can for the best interest of their company.
I do think it's a mistake for you to pull your customers into the fray quite so openly. That ends up creating a lot of confusion and side-taking, which can end up hurting you as much as hurting Sideshow. But I also know that what you're doing, you're doing for the sake of your own business, and that at the end of the day you'll be the one that gets rewarded or gets hurt, so you're the one that has to do what you think is best. Like Denny Craine says, your name's on the door.
I have friends on both sides of this overall debate - and I can tell you that they both have valid issues. I mentioned some of this very debate back in my State of the Industry column a few weeks ago:
https://www.moviepoopshoot.com/toybox/170.html
Many companies this year are going to move towards high end collectibles with low edition sizes. It's a niche market that may save them. However, when you are talking about low edition sizes, the need for external retailers drops off, and if a company can manage their own sales and distribution direct to the customer, they can greatly improve their margins. The very thing that could save companies could doom retailers.
It's going to be a tough year.
I do think it's a mistake for you to pull your customers into the fray quite so openly. That ends up creating a lot of confusion and side-taking, which can end up hurting you as much as hurting Sideshow. But I also know that what you're doing, you're doing for the sake of your own business, and that at the end of the day you'll be the one that gets rewarded or gets hurt, so you're the one that has to do what you think is best. Like Denny Craine says, your name's on the door.
I have friends on both sides of this overall debate - and I can tell you that they both have valid issues. I mentioned some of this very debate back in my State of the Industry column a few weeks ago:
https://www.moviepoopshoot.com/toybox/170.html
Many companies this year are going to move towards high end collectibles with low edition sizes. It's a niche market that may save them. However, when you are talking about low edition sizes, the need for external retailers drops off, and if a company can manage their own sales and distribution direct to the customer, they can greatly improve their margins. The very thing that could save companies could doom retailers.
It's going to be a tough year.
Michael you made some very good points in your last two big posts and I agree with what your saying. I also agree with Bob that SS has to do mostly what's best for SS and help out Fireside(insert dealer here) as much as they can.
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ChaseTheDragon
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Chicky said:
Speaking only for myself -- as a consumer -- it seems as if you haven't addressed DROd's main point. It is not a question of whether or how an allocation occurs. It is WHEN. If it is true that SS doesn't advise dealers about how deeply they have been allocated until the item ships, that seems unnecessarily late.
I have been shut out of several SS items in the past due to allocations. I now order SS product only from SS, thereby foregoing any sort of discount I might get from a dealer. That's good for SS and not necessarily for me, but you do what you have to do.
The last point I'd like to make -- as has been pointed out by some and ignored by others -- is that this is ALL about the money. SS's business is to maximize profits. Drod's business is to maximize profits. My personal interest is to minimize expenditures. Morality is not an issue in this conflict therefore anyone attempting to to validate their own position or discredit someone else's position on some sort of moral ground is out of line. Everyone is acting out of self interest. ERGO there is no moral high ground.
It's often the poorest run businesses that need a bail-out.
Look at the retailers that survived the comic book crash of the 90's and you'll see well run establishments that knew how to run their joints in good times and bad. And they did it without alienating their customers or their potential customers.
Look at the retailers that survived the comic book crash of the 90's and you'll see well run establishments that knew how to run their joints in good times and bad. And they did it without alienating their customers or their potential customers.
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creecher
Such is Life - Ned Kelly
I am just a naive buyer, but hasn't this always been on the cards, for years now.
From my perspective, Sideshow decided their end and course a long time ago. They removed their items from the large 'evil' Walmarts and the like. They made me aware that they wanted to go direct. I knew it and so did everyone else, no secret. We all have to make allowances accordingly. Sideshow have expanded onward and upward, they cater to us naieve end users no end. A very costly excercise. All well and fine, then they introduced exclusives. That didn't suit me and I kicked up a little dust myself. I still don't like it, but I accept it, and understand why it has to be.
It is all to be expected, and it is great to be able to air your dirty laundry in public. That is they way it should be. There is enough hiding and secrecy ruining perpectives and keeping people clueless. I don't mean everything should be out in the open, but some are leaders and some are followers, and followers dont like to feel like sheep even when led to the slaughter. You cannot achieve the aim without suffering. I think airing brings understanding, is all.
Business is an emotionless idea, thought up by emotive people, trying to separate themselves from themselves. Easy while things go smoothly, as soon as action is required it draws in emotional aspects. You cannot dismiss them from the equation.
Thanks for letting me have input.
From my perspective, Sideshow decided their end and course a long time ago. They removed their items from the large 'evil' Walmarts and the like. They made me aware that they wanted to go direct. I knew it and so did everyone else, no secret. We all have to make allowances accordingly. Sideshow have expanded onward and upward, they cater to us naieve end users no end. A very costly excercise. All well and fine, then they introduced exclusives. That didn't suit me and I kicked up a little dust myself. I still don't like it, but I accept it, and understand why it has to be.
It is all to be expected, and it is great to be able to air your dirty laundry in public. That is they way it should be. There is enough hiding and secrecy ruining perpectives and keeping people clueless. I don't mean everything should be out in the open, but some are leaders and some are followers, and followers dont like to feel like sheep even when led to the slaughter. You cannot achieve the aim without suffering. I think airing brings understanding, is all.
Business is an emotionless idea, thought up by emotive people, trying to separate themselves from themselves. Easy while things go smoothly, as soon as action is required it draws in emotional aspects. You cannot dismiss them from the equation.
Thanks for letting me have input.
SolidLiquidFox
doing it...for all of us
You have a point creecher...I think people misunderstand the concept of business and friendship. SS has obviously decided to do things a certain way to separate their product into it's own thing.
This whole thing has been a very interesting read. A lot of input from both sides on something we as consumers are not aware of. I guess the choice is always there for retailers to carry SS product or not. I am sure the popularity of the SS pieces make it hard on people like drod to make his stand but I respect that he does what he needs to do.
This whole thing has been a very interesting read. A lot of input from both sides on something we as consumers are not aware of. I guess the choice is always there for retailers to carry SS product or not. I am sure the popularity of the SS pieces make it hard on people like drod to make his stand but I respect that he does what he needs to do.
Darklord Dave
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One thing that hasn't been brought up is that SSC's cancellation policy is just as liberal with wholesalers as it is with consumers. So they don't actually KNOW how manythey'll have of a particular item until it ships.
Just a note about edits and deletes in this thread- we're trying to keep this a civil and intelligent discussion. No disparagement of individuals will be allowed.
What I dont understand is why Sideshows discount structure has changed. It was changed without warning. And now on top of that every retailer has received a letter from Sideshow stating that if the sell any Sideshow product for more than 15% underretail price their account will automatically be cancelled. No warning, just cancelled. Seems a little harsh to me. I really like Sideshow a lot but I just dont understand them. I have been there for about 5 years already and things just keep getting starnger and stranger. And dont get me started on the grey hulk exclusive. Why no retailer was given any notification by their sales rep is beyond me
Fubeca
Cage Fighter
Well my biggest problem is that it seems like Sideshow was held at ransom by SF by them pulling the thread down for "only 2 days." Couldn't the discussions have gone on behind the scene without the threatening move? No one would have know and no one would have made a big deal out of this. That is all I have to say about that. 
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