Sideshow, do Disney right!

[Khev]

I was trying to think which "princess" SSC would do best to release first if they ever produced any. Film buffs would probably say Snow White but I'm not sure that she's that popular compared to the others. Tinkerbell might be the way to go since she's almost becoming a brand all by herself. When we were at Disneyworld last year the line for girls to meet and get autographs from Tink easily quadrupled the length of lines for the other gals. The only challenge would be her tiny size at 1/4 scale.

 

[IrishJedi]

I think I follow you, but care to elaborate on that?

I know they go all-out at the events they attend, anyone who has seen them in action at a convention knows that (not to mention all their other fan interaction). I assume you are referring to marketing/etc.

Not just Marketing. Actually, they're mostly operating like a small start-up company when it comes to actual Production. But more on that in a minute.

A huge production once a year at SDCC is great, but it's also now pretty much the only trade show they have a real presence at, Toy Fair included. Everything besides SDCC has been relegated to coverage on their own site... and even SDCC is starting to focus more on their web presence beginning this year.

And that's part of the problem. If Sideshow is ever truly going to come close to breaking into the mainstream then they're going to have to step way outside the comfy confines of SDCC and their own website. Hell, if it weren't for Sideshow Freaks and an occasional piece in Toyfare magazine no one would know what Sideshow even has going on outside of SDCC attendees and people who visit their site. When they should be taking risks to get their brand out there to more people, they're instead scaling back and becoming more niche. And people here tend to forget that the Freaks only make up a small fraction of Sideshow's potential consumer-base.

And maybe that's what they want... to just cater to a small pocket of "high-end" collectors with some product runs as small as 150 in edition. And that's perfectly fine and their choice, though it IS curiously at odds with most of the licenses they now have.

Now onto Production, which is my main concern with Sideshow, and has been for years... As most of us know, they have a relatively small Creative and Production team. All products that go to market are ultimately produced by 3rd parties (in facilities in China, of course). And while almost all other companies do that as well, they key difference is that Sideshow is now pretty much the only one without full-time Production Management and Supervising employees based at these factories. And you don't need me to rehash the litany of QA issues (and excuses for why boundaries and envelopes haven't been pushed further in regards to product detail, fabric sourcing, etc.), do you?

Thing is, in very key ways (particularly overall PM) they still function the same way they did when they were mostly known for making 12" Monster & historical figures. I don't know if it's because key personnel there are afraid or hesitant to let go of some control or not... but it's my opinion that at this point (well, even before now) they're holding themselves back production-wise and in QA by not updating and expanding how they operate.

They run like a small, new company... yet they now hold some of the biggest and most high-profile licenses in the world. These two facts are at odds with each other and will be until they see the writing on the wall and make some real changes.

 

[Agent0028]

I was trying to think which "princess" SSC would do best to release first if they ever produced any. Film buffs would probably say Snow White but I'm not sure that she's that popular compared to the others. Tinkerbell might be the way to go since she's almost becoming a brand all by herself. When we were at Disneyworld last year the line for girls to meet and get autographs from Tink easily quadrupled the length of lines for the other gals. The only challenge would be her tiny size at 1/4 scale.

I would put Tinker Bell and Jiminy Cricket in the same category as Chernabog. They won't be 1/4 scale, but do them about the size of a normal human. I think they should do an accurate 1/4 scale representation that comes along with Peter Pan and Pinocchio.

In terms of which Princes to do first (Tinker Bell not being a Princess aside) I think Snow White would do well since I think most people who bought the Evil Queen will get Snow White as well. Or maybe Cinderella since imo I think she may be the most popular. However my personal choice would be Belle since she is my favorite.

 

[Jeremy K9]

I would put Tinker Bell and Jiminy Cricket in the same category as Chernabog. They won't be 1/4 scale, but do them about the size of a normal human. I think they should do an accurate 1/4 scale representation that comes along with Peter Pan and Pinocchio.

In terms of which Princes to do first (Tinker Bell not being a Princess aside) I think Snow White would do well since I think most people who bought the Evil Queen will get Snow White as well. Or maybe Cinderella since imo I think she may be the most popular. However my personal choice would be Belle since she is my favorite.

I agree that Belle should definately be one of the first princesses produced. Can you imagine how awesome her dress would be?

 

[jlprjlpr]

They may care a lot more when PoP just doesn't sell and someone asks where's the license fees.

Sorry, no one was interested in it, hence they didn't sell, hence no money, they all want Snow White, etc, etc.

Just because Disney want to push the latest thing, doesn't mean it's going to work. At $300 a pop, we are going to be way more selective in our purchases.

Plus I don't just think it's Disney. The focus on the villains for the animated characters I feel is just as much Sideshow then anything else. They tend to go more for the bad guys, or the big ugly monsters, etc, etc, maybe from the point of view that some 'pretty' Belle or Snow White just won't sell. And for the most part I'm sure it won't, not to the general 'Alien loving' Sideshow customer. But that just means they need different customers, and surely expanding ones customer base is a good thing, even if it does take time.

Exactly what I'm saying. They need to do the good characters including princesses and then do two things:
1) Market them to the typical Disney collectors
2) They should not assume typical SS collectors won't buy the good characters. Like I said before, I like LOTR Lurtz and I like Cinderella. We are not all stereotypical collectors.

 

[Khev]

In terms of which Princes to do first (Tinker Bell not being a Princess aside) I think Snow White would do well since I think most people who bought the Evil Queen will get Snow White as well. Or maybe Cinderella since imo I think she may be the most popular. However my personal choice would be Belle since she is my favorite.

I hear you about Tinkerbell not being a princess, that's why I referenced to her being a separate brand. I think Cinderella is the princess most girls at one point dream of being (heck its one of the reasons full grown women do shows like The Bachelor) so she may be the most popular for that reason alone.

I just took an impromptu and wildly unofficial poll in my house just now and my wife said her favorite is Aurora (followed closely by newcomer Tiana) and my 3.5 year old daughter picked Jasmine.

We just went to Disney on Ice a couple of weeks ago and Aladdin/Jasmine, Navine/Tiana, and the crew from Toy Story got the biggest applause from the crowd when they made their entrances.

 

[Agent0028]

Ah, sorry I didn't read your post carefully enough, I thought you clumped her in with the princesses. But I figured you really meant female characters because alot of times Tinker Bell, Alice, and Mulan get lumped in with princesses.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Not just Marketing. Actually, they're mostly operating like a small start-up company when it comes to actual Production. But more on that in a minute.

A huge production once a year at SDCC is great, but it's also now pretty much the only trade show they have a real presence at, Toy Fair included. Everything besides SDCC has been relegated to coverage on their own site... and even SDCC is starting to focus more on their web presence beginning this year.

And that's part of the problem. If Sideshow is ever truly going to come close to breaking into the mainstream then they're going to have to step way outside the comfy confines of SDCC and their own website. Hell, if it weren't for Sideshow Freaks and an occasional piece in Toyfare magazine no one would know what Sideshow even has going on outside of SDCC attendees and people who visit their site. When they should be taking risks to get their brand out there to more people, they're instead scaling back and becoming more niche. And people here tend to forget that the Freaks only make up a small fraction of Sideshow's potential consumer-base.

And maybe that's what they want... to just cater to a small pocket of "high-end" collectors with some product runs as small as 150 in edition. And that's perfectly fine and their choice, though it IS curiously at odds with most of the licenses they now have.

Now onto Production, which is my main concern with Sideshow, and has been for years... As most of us know, they have a relatively small Creative and Production team. All products that go to market are ultimately produced by 3rd parties (in facilities in China, of course). And while almost all other companies do that as well, they key difference is that Sideshow is now pretty much the only one without full-time Production Management and Supervising employees based at these factories. And you don't need me to rehash the litany of QA issues (and excuses for why boundaries and envelopes haven't been pushed further in regards to product detail, fabric sourcing, etc.), do you?

Thing is, in very key ways (particularly overall PM) they still function the same way they did when they were mostly known for making 12" Monster & historical figures. I don't know if it's because key personnel there are afraid or hesitant to let go of some control or not... but it's my opinion that at this point (well, even before now) they're holding themselves back production-wise and in QA by not updating and expanding how they operate.

They run like a small, new company... yet they now hold some of the biggest and most high-profile licenses in the world. These two facts are at odds with each other and will be until they see the writing on the wall and make some real changes.

I'd have to disagree with some of this - I think marketing is one reason they've survived as long as they have in a hostile environment that has crushed almost all the other players.

 

[IrishJedi]

Well, even if I granted you that... Marketing is the least of the concerns I have with Sideshow. The Production-to-Market business model (or, rather, that they haven't properly adjusted it with the size and scope of their offerings) is by far the biggest beef I have.

 

[theguru1]

**Cough**Jennifer Connelly as Jenny**Cough**

If I had a choice, I'd really rather Jennifer from Labyrinth, I think those rights are included, maybe.....

I was trying to think which "princess" SSC would do best to release first if they ever produced any. Film buffs would probably say Snow White but I'm not sure that she's that popular compared to the others. Tinkerbell might be the way to go since she's almost becoming a brand all by herself. When we were at Disneyworld last year the line for girls to meet and get autographs from Tink easily quadrupled the length of lines for the other gals. The only challenge would be her tiny size at 1/4 scale.

Tinkerbell would be a contender, and no doubt has to be done at some point in time, tho I don't think first. As to size, I'd say something around the size of the Frodo PF, that way she is still smaller, as she should be, but that's large enough to still get the detail.

Snow White would be a good choice, since she is very well know and you get that matching set with the Evil Queen, but yeah, maybe not as popular.
If we are more talking about 'kids' here, Then I think either Ariel or Belle would be the big draw card and not just for kids, I really want those too.

However, if we broaden the 'princess' turn just a little, then the first up, sure fire sale killer that isn't a villain or live action, is easy....

Jessica Rabbit, make an Evil Queen quality, drop dead beautiful, hot and dare I say, 'sexy' PF of her, with a cool EX and watch her sell lightning fast, with very few cancellations later on.

I agree that Belle should definately be one of the first princesses produced. Can you imagine how awesome her dress would be?

I so want a Belle PF and matching Beast, it was at the very top of my list the day the Disney PF line was announced. I want those just about above anything else that I even already have.

As for general look, I've thought about that as well and while I'd take anything that looks fantastic, my preference would be:

Belle: the dress that she wears at the start of the film, but with the cloak she has when she visits the castle for the first time to find her father. The Exclusive could be Mrs Potts and chip.

Beast: the costume from around when he shows her the library, again it has a cloak, but also covers up most of the 'fur', apart from the head, hands and feet. Making that easier to do and more believable.
Go all out on the Exclusive and include Cogsworth and Lumiere.
Basically, you end up with more or less:

Then, as a extra special purchase option, make a matching scale table, with the rose under cover.

However, more then likely, if or WHEN they get made, the ballroom costumes are the most likely, which is fine for the Beast, tho getting Belle's dress looking right will be a serious challenge, even more so when it comes to production and that pesky Quality Control.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Well, even if I granted you that... Marketing is the least of the concerns I have with Sideshow. The Production-to-Market business model (or, rather, that they haven't properly adjusted it with the size and scope of their offerings) is by far the biggest beef I have.

It may be obvious, but I'm still a little confused what changed from 2006/2007 to now that made SSC cut back from like 8000-10000 units priced at $60 each to 2000-3000 units at $100 each. Did demand really dry up that fast? Did competing with HT mean SSC had to change what I felt was their strength, "value" offerings? I know $60 SW items weren't going to compare favorably with $100 HT items, but does anyone think they weren't meeting the standards of a $60 item?

How did SSC lose so many LOTR and Indy fans that they had to abandon those 1/6th licenses? Would fans have hung around if prices stayed lower?

Remember when for the cost of 1 PF you can buy like 5 or 6 12" SSC figures? Now PFs still linger at near the cost they always were ($275-$400) but 12" figures are almost 2x what they were. Now you can only get 3 figures for the price of the PF. Why did prices for 12" figures go up so high but PFs hardly did?

 

[Jeremy K9]

If I had a choice, I'd really rather Jennifer from Labyrinth, I think those rights are included, maybe.....



Tinkerbell would be a contender, and no doubt has to be done at some point in time, tho I don't think first. As to size, I'd say something around the size of the Frodo PF, that way she is still smaller, as she should be, but that's large enough to still get the detail.

Snow White would be a good choice, since she is very well know and you get that matching set with the Evil Queen, but yeah, maybe not as popular.
If we are more talking about 'kids' here, Then I think either Ariel or Belle would be the big draw card and not just for kids, I really want those too.

However, if we broaden the 'princess' turn just a little, then the first up, sure fire sale killer that isn't a villain or live action, is easy....

Jessica Rabbit, make an Evil Queen quality, drop dead beautiful, hot and dare I say, 'sexy' PF of her, with a cool EX and watch her sell lightning fast, with very few cancellations later on.



I so want a Belle PF and matching Beast, it was at the very top of my list the day the Disney PF line was announced. I want those just about above anything else that I even already have.

As for general look, I've thought about that as well and while I'd take anything that looks fantastic, my preference would be:

Belle: the dress that she wears at the start of the film, but with the cloak she has when she visits the castle for the first time to find her father. The Exclusive could be Mrs Potts and chip.

Beast: the costume from around when he shows her the library, again it has a cloak, but also covers up most of the 'fur', apart from the head, hands and feet. Making that easier to do and more believable.
Go all out on the Exclusive and include Cogsworth and Lumiere.
Basically, you end up with more or less:

Then, as a extra special purchase option, make a matching scale table, with the rose under cover.

However, more then likely, if or WHEN they get made, the ballroom costumes are the most likely, which is fine for the Beast, tho getting Belle's dress looking right will be a serious challenge, even more so when it comes to production and that pesky Quality Control.

I totally agree with everything you said about Belle and the Beast. Their outfits from the begining of the film would make for excellent outfits. I would like to see them do both outifts for both characters, but I think that would be stretching it.

Sorry to say, I don't think the exclusives will be nearly that awesome. Belle's exclusive will probably be a switch out hand, holding a book. For some reason, Sideshow hasn't done that great a job of including awesome exclusives that people want. The evil Queen had a nice one, but Maleficent's exclusive is a complete joke. Alot of people, including myself, wanted one of her henchmen to come as the exclusive, instead we got a hand that looks slightly different. She also comes with the exclusive horrible face that I don't think anyone will be posing her with.

Sorry to get off topic.

 

[LOTRFan]

I'd have to disagree with some of this - I think marketing is one reason they've survived as long as they have in a hostile environment that has crushed almost all the other players.

I think little things like a $50 gift card in a box set shows them branching out some.

If I could agree with anything of what Carl said it would be their business outside of the website; I get the impression that things are growing less retailer friendly - and I get the notion that SS takes a larger share of profit.

 

[jediknight120]

I think little things like a $50 gift card in a box set shows them branching out some.

That's exactly how I got turned on to SS... picked up the Transformers RotF box set with the Optimus Prime head and gift card. Hadn't heard of them before that, I'm a huge Star Wars nerd/collector and just never knew they existed or had the SW license.

 

[theguru1]

I totally agree with everything you said about Belle and the Beast. Their outfits from the begining of the film would make for excellent outfits. I would like to see them do both outifts for both characters, but I think that would be stretching it.

Sorry to say, I don't think the exclusives will be nearly that awesome. Belle's exclusive will probably be a switch out hand, holding a book. For some reason, Sideshow hasn't done that great a job of including awesome exclusives that people want. The evil Queen had a nice one, but Maleficent's exclusive is a complete joke. Alot of people, including myself, wanted one of her henchmen to come as the exclusive, instead we got a hand that looks slightly different. She also comes with the exclusive horrible face that I don't think anyone will be posing her with.

Yes, both sets of outfits would be the solution, tho then i'd be very torn between getting all 4 or using the money and display space for two other characters. Still, just getting any two is going to be the biggest problem, so as long as they do it, I'll be happy either way, but start of film costumes are still my preference.

I'd suspect the Exclusives would be something like a book for Belle, which sure, it fits, but hardly an inspiring Ex. The crow with the Evil Queen was a great Ex, and so worth the extra few $$, hence why I got it. But yes, not having a henchmen (which was shown as a drawing in an early production video) for Maleficent and just a hand and that hideous head was the reason I cancelled the Ex (plus the bright green). If in-hand pics end up looking good, I'll reconsider getting her, either Reg or Ex, whichever is easier and cheapest to get.

Not sure about anyone else here, but I want these for me. I'm still a just 30's something, white male, with no kids, but I love animation, especially Disney and the older 2D stuff (even considered becoming an animator in my younger years). So take note SS.

 

[IrishJedi]

If I could agree with anything of what Carl said it would be their business outside of the website; I get the impression that things are growing less retailer friendly - and I get the notion that SS takes a larger share of profit.

Why would anyone disagree with me that Sideshow not having full-time supervisors and management in their factories is debilitating?

I mean, you don't even need to know anything about production management at all to come to that conclusion. That's just common sense. I'm simply baffled that more people (especially on here) aren't getting that.

 

[theguru1]

I mean, you don't even need to know anything about production management at all to come to that conclusion. That's just common sense. I'm simply baffled that more people (especially on here) aren't getting that.

O' I get it. Weta have staff at the factories and for the most part, it shows. Given the difference in collectible business size, it's strange that SS don't.

 

[IrishJedi]

O' I get it. Weta have staff at the factories and for the most part, it shows. Given the difference in collectible business size, it's strange that SS don't.

The question that really needs to be asked is, Why not?

I have no idea why Sideshow has still decided to this point not to have any FTEs in China (especially given that almost all of the production/QC issues can be directly attributed to this fact). If I had to venture a total guess, I'd say it's because some folks in California might get butthurt if they had to relinquish some control. But I have no idea why. All I know is that it's an obvious impediment. It really should frustrate more people than it does.

 

[Agent0028]

Guru, I love your ideas. But I also really want Belle in her yellow dress and beast in the blue tux...

 

[Jeremy K9]

Guru, I love your ideas. But I also really want Belle in her yellow dress and beast in the blue tux...

They must do these two in their ballroom clothes. I agree with Guru, but I like their ballroom atire much better.