1/6 Speculation: Star Wars Episode IX Figures

[Mike86]

The thing is though it really didn't have to be that way at all. Hell look at what Abrams did with Han in the prior film. Mostly the character of Han Solo was treated with respect and was given a good send-off. He died, but did so in an honorable fashion (trying to reason with his son and bring him back to the light).

Rian Johnson on the other hand took a gigantic crap on Luke Skywalker because he wanted to subvert our expectations. He was basically nothing like the character we remembered or expected him to be. Luke didn't need to be a central focus or to take away the action from the new cast, but he could have been handled so much better.

 

[Wor-Gar]

TLJ has so many problems as a movie, let alone a Star Wars movie... but for me Luke was one of the much lesser evils.

With regards to Luke, besides the silly 'mistaken intent' moment that forever changed the galaxy, the only thing that really bothered me was the astral projection... not so much because of what it did to Luke -- which actually makes good sense from a Jedi perspective -- but how that new "super power" really messes with the logic of the established universe. Like the "speed running" from TPM that was never seen again. It becomes one of those "powers" where you're like: why didn't they do that here, why didn't they do that there?

 

[rayeknor]

If only a lone X-wing had light speed rammed the first death star, Obi-Wan/everyone in Rogue one etc etc would be alive..

TLJ had serious problems besides a lazy sendoff for Luke indeed.

 

[TaliBane]

I was just talking about what Disney and Lucasfilm clearly wanted. The whole focus since the sale has been on attracting a younger audience so as to keep the franchise going as long as possible. It may not have turned out that way, but that's beside the point.

And despite the impression you get on here, there ARE still a ton of older fans like me who really love the focus on these new characters, and like seeing the mix of new and old. Personally I still think that was the right approach, both story wise and for the franchise.

Because honestly I don't think we needed another trilogy with Han, Luke and Leia as the main heroes again. It would never have been as good as the OT anyway.

I said Hamill and a young co-lead, so that is still a "mix of new and old." No one here seriously thinks you could have done a SW film with Han, Luke and Leia as the main heroes again.

I think the distinction is that Ford and Hamill are supporting ST characters who then die in their respective movies, as standard mentor-n'dies (ie characters designed to show up, impart some wisdom, then have a meaningful death,) whereas what I'm saying is Luke could have been a co-lead in a new trilogy.

And I'm not saying there aren't a ton of older fans who aren't happy with the ST as-is - it's just that:

1. In truth, there is that element of "it's Star Wars!" (which is what a buddy of mine says about literally anything that shows up with the SW brand on it) - it's a $200m movie with TIE fighters, walkers, and Imperial baddies in black. There's that "kinda cool no matter what" aspect.

2. I would guess that most of that ton of older fans would have preferred to have seen Luke as co-lead for a trilogy (again - shared with a young co-lead) rather than as a one-film mentor-n'die, in a film more along the lines of "Logan" directed by Fincher or Nolan than the decent enough retread of OT story/character/sequences with OT cast as supporting players, but with new young leads, that is the ST.

So this hypothetical Luke co-lead trilogy wouldn't have TRIED to be "as good as the OT" - which is what the ST feels like it's trying to do (by so closely replicating Luke, Luke's journey, the villains he faced, and even the actual battle or conflict sequences he went through) when its not in TLJ subversion mode - because it would have been a very different thing to the OT.

If only because Luke's 35 years older and a badass, battle-hardened warrior who knows the universe too well.

 

[Mike86]

What TaliBane said is what I expected and wanted. Luke alongside Rey. Not taking the entire focus, but along for the ride and having some cool moments. Grumpy and bitter old Luke on an island who threw away all of his ideals and optimism just isn’t what I ever expected in the slightest.

 

[sithocan]

Personally, the one character that should not be ruined is Vader. Even he is not a perfect person, why should others be?
So, what they did with Luke is OK with me. My main issue with TLJ was pacing.

 

[davejames]

The problem is, with Luke as a co-lead (and in full badass Jedi Warrior mode like fans wanted), it would have been a whole lot harder for any other new character to really stand out. Because he's the only one audiences would really care about and want to watch any time he was on screen. Which was exactly the concern JJ had with TFA and the reason he decided to keep Luke offscreen until the end.

He didn't want Rey to just seem like a sidekick to Luke, which is likely what would have happened. And hell, even as a cranky old hermit stuck on an island the entire movie, he still managed to overshadow her. So I can only imagine how much worse it would have been for her if he continued as that Jedi Warrior into IX.

 

[rayeknor]

Worse for her character, most likely better for the movie(s). It should be about the story, not any single character. Hero's journey is part of all tales, but with some balls you can break the storytelling 101 formulas and make great storytelling, the movie industry and last couple decades of TV have many examples.

It isnt hard, they have the money to hire good storytellers but as mentioned by others they attempted to fit star wars into the Hollywood formulas - engage a young new audience for future revenue, kill off old characters to sell more toys of the new batch (optimus prime says hello), make TFA a rehash of episode IV since that one was so successful, it must work for us again etc etc.

Too much studio meddling at Disney, If they told JJ and Rian do what you want you're both fans and here is Lucas' phone number I'm sure we would have gotten some spectacular stories for all audiences over studio formulated no risk Star Trek copies sprinkled heavily with OT scene ripoffs like Starkiller base and Snoke, with Star Wars visuals save Yoda's cameo.

If I sound mad I'm not, its just movies but I'm genuinely boggled over how hard Di$sney dropped the ball here.

 

[Mike86]

The problem is, with Luke as a co-lead (and in full badass Jedi Warrior mode like fans wanted), it would have been a whole lot harder for any other new character to really stand out. Because he's the only one audiences would really care about and want to watch any time he was on screen. Which was exactly the concern JJ had with TFA and the reason he decided to keep Luke offscreen until the end.

He didn't want Rey to just seem like a sidekick to Luke, which is likely what would have happened. And hell, even as a cranky old hermit stuck on an island the entire movie, he still managed to overshadow her. So I can only imagine how much worse it would have been for her if he continued as that Jedi Warrior into IX.

Except Rey was well established by The Force Awakens. Having Luke with her to me wouldn’t have weakened her. Luke having Obi-Wan or Yoda guiding him didn’t hurt his character at all. Having the mentor character who’s maybe too old for all the action, but serves as a guiding light would have only helped me like Rey more I feel.

No offense but it sounds like a lot of the problem from your perspective is giving fans what they wanted. I mean such an awful thing to do clearly...

Look, there will be Star Wars films or tv shows from now until who knows when. There will be plenty of time to establish new characters. Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford are old men and Carrie Fisher is dead, would it really have been so horrible to have let fans get another film or two with Luke as a co-lead?

 

[davejames]

All I really wanted was just to see them play an important role in the story, which I think they have. I never had much interest in the EU version of events, so was never bothered by how they strayed from that. But I can't speak to what every other fan wanted.

 

[Mike86]

Its not about the EU for me though. Just giving Luke a more satisfying arc that's in line with his character rather than what seemed like a completely different character is what I wanted.

I mean it seems pretty telling to me when even the actor doesn't agree with the portrayal.

 

[davejames]

Well it's not really surprising to me that Hamill would want to play the noble and heroic Jedi Knight again. Or have a more sizable role. He's an actor after all.

 

[svnmelter]

Looks like J.J. really is trying to pretend TLJ never happened, especially when it comes to Kylo and Rey. I can’t say any of these designs leap out at me, though I think Poe’s outfit looks quite good. Nice to see they cast Richard E Grant as a First Order officer. Who saw that coming? And Dominic Monaghan looks like they just filmed him in whatever he turned up on set wearing.

And they really seem to hate classic aliens don’t they.

Really though? Rey rejected Kylo. It makes total sense that he would go back to being a Vader wannabe.

 

[svnmelter]

Its not about the EU for me though. Just giving Luke a more satisfying arc that's in line with his character rather than what seemed like a completely different character is what I wanted.

I mean it seems pretty telling to me when even the actor doesn't agree with the portrayal.

I get the argument here, but Luke did exactly that at the end of the film. Obi-Wan's sacrifice x 1000

 

[Mike86]

Well it's not really surprising to me that Hamill would want to play the noble and heroic Jedi Knight again. Or have a more sizable role. He's an actor after all.

Right, but I think he actually cares about the role and about the Star Wars fans. I think he’s as much of a fan as anybody and that’s why he probably was disappointed. I don’t think it’s that he wanted to steal the show away from the new cast, but he probably viewed it as an opportunity to come back for the fans again. Plus also I’m sure the money was good and he doesn’t get a lot of big roles.

Hamill has never struck me as the kind of person who takes his Star Wars fame for granted. Unlike say Harrison Ford for instance, who as much as I love him hasn’t seemed very interested in Star Wars for a long time really. I’m almost surprised he agreed to be in The Force Awakens honestly.

 

[TaliBane]

The problem is, with Luke as a co-lead (and in full badass Jedi Warrior mode like fans wanted), it would have been a whole lot harder for any other new character to really stand out. Because he's the only one audiences would really care about and want to watch any time he was on screen. Which was exactly the concern JJ had with TFA and the reason he decided to keep Luke offscreen until the end.

He didn't want Rey to just seem like a sidekick to Luke, which is likely what would have happened. And hell, even as a cranky old hermit stuck on an island the entire movie, he still managed to overshadow her. So I can only imagine how much worse it would have been for her if he continued as that Jedi Warrior into IX.

It just sounds funny - the character whose story is the beating heart of Star Wars (played by an actor who still looks great and is better than he's ever been) being seen as standing out too much and being the only thing people want to watch... in a trilogy that (studio considerations aside) should have been the continuation of his journey, albeit now focused on his legacy. What it is exactly, and who will carry it forward.

What's become clear is that while we can enjoy side stories set in the OT like RO, when it comes to the bigger canvas stuff, the sweeping "trilogy"/saga... it's all about Skywalker (a key issue people seemed to have was Rey wasn't a Skywalker.) And if it isn't, in the end, it feels like a thrilling/dazzling Broadway show without a lead character.

 

[Wor-Gar]

it feels like a thrilling/dazzling Broadway show without a lead character.

Especially Snoke's crazy red lair... a big gay Vegas-style stage.... it certainly is 'supreme'... but serving what Galactic purpose, who knows? But it will look great when Disney presents: The Last Jedi -- on Ice!

 

[davejames]

It just sounds funny - the character whose story is the beating heart of Star Wars (played by an actor who still looks great and is better than he's ever been) being seen as standing out too much and being the only thing people want to watch... in a trilogy that (studio considerations aside) should have been the continuation of his journey, albeit now focused on his legacy. What it is exactly, and who will carry it forward.

What's become clear is that while we can enjoy side stories set in the OT like RO, when it comes to the bigger canvas stuff, the sweeping "trilogy"/saga... it's all about Skywalker (a key issue people seemed to have was Rey wasn't a Skywalker.) And if it isn't, in the end, it feels like a thrilling/dazzling Broadway show without a lead character.

I don't know, even Hamill said before that he felt Luke's story really concluded with ROTJ and he didn't see the need to continue it. The ST has always felt to me more like an epilogue when it comes to those original characters. And we already saw them leading the charge to overthrow an Empire once, so not sure we needed to see them do it yet again. Passing that burden onto a new generation of characters and Jedi seems like a more natural progression of the story to me-- and much more like what would actually happen in this universe.

And as for this being the "Skywalker Story", well Luke still seems to be a pretty huge presence in them, influencing not only Rey but Kylo as well. And people seem to be mentioning his name every 5 minutes in these movies. So it's certainly not like he's being forgotten here.

 

[xipotec]

I like Hamill , but whatever opinion he has means nothing when you factor in the dump truck worth of money he was likely paid.

Either side of the fence, you cannot ignore he did this for the cash.... it the fans.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[TaliBane]

I don't know, even Hamill said before that he felt Luke's story really concluded with ROTJ and he didn't see the need to continue it. The ST has always felt to me more like an epilogue when it comes to those original characters. And we already saw them leading the charge to overthrow an Empire once, so not sure we needed to see them do it yet again. Passing that burden onto a new generation of characters and Jedi seems like a more natural progression of the story to me-- and much more like what would actually happen in this universe.

But there's also a part of me that feels like the difference between the OT and the ST is like the difference between "Grease" and "Grease 2". Same world/visuals, same vibe, same old sidekicks and cool vehicles but... something fundamental missing. Yet... the cast is okay and it's fun enough to watch.

I always think of the Kevin Smith fan-j*zz moment when he got to walk into the Falcon set. Maybe that's what the ST is for everyone. A walk back into that world, a serviceable recreation of what was - and that's enough.

And as for this being the "Skywalker Story", well Luke still seems to be a pretty huge presence in them, influencing not only Rey but Kylo as well. And people seem to be mentioning his name every 5 minutes in these movies. So it's certainly not like he's being forgotten here.

Yeah Luke's a bit like a great story. Everyone in the ST is in search of it, believing it's going to save the whole thing. Luke ends up teaching Rey in the same way my Uncle Pete taught me - his lifestyle, attitude, choices and personal hygiene were an example of what not to do with your life.