Darklord1967
Freaked Out
You're right. It's NOT important... except for the fact that you felt it necessary to make the point twice. And I have not been saying this "for years". It came up about a year and a half ago when I was first moving forward with my play. Back then, I expressed my preference for Batman's classic look over the movie armored look and ended up having to fend off smarmy attacks for my aesthetic choice from you on the other message board. But whatever.
I suppose it does for YOU. But it doesn't for me. Therein lies one of several differences between our viewpoints.
I think the 1966 TV series was never taken seriously because it was never intended to be taken seriously. It was played for CAMPINESS. I don't think it has anything to do with the garments worn by BATMAN... especially not in the wild polyester, phsychadelic, "go-go" days of 1966.
Well CLEARLY that is the difference between our sensibilities. You require real world "believeability" in these movie adaptations of these fantasy characters. I do not. And That's okay. Different strokes and all that. I don't want fantasy characters to be "believeable". I want them to be extraordinary... fantastic. For me, that's where all the fun is. Space battles in STAR WARS would be pretty dull if they were staged to be "believeable" (as in reality-accurate).
Everything you say here is ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE AND TRUE.
I only maintain that those gadgets (during the earliest stories) were not as objectionable to me (for the most part) since they were re-configured ordinary items that did not draw too much attention to the fact that Batman MUST be a millionaire. For example his Bat-a-Rang was just an ordinary Bat-Customized boomerang. The items in his utility belt were simple smoke bombs, first-aid kits, lock picking kits, forensics kits, etc. The Batmobile was just an ordinary Bat-Customized sedan... Bat-Cycle was just an ordinary motor cycle re-purposed with Bat-iconography etc. The Bat-Glider was just an ordinary glider with scalloped wings. Consequently, since these were ordinary items, The Batman had to be VERY GOOD... VERY SKILLED in their use during his crime-fighting.
But very quickly (even in the comics) that began to change. Batman started to be seen in "Whirly Bats", Bat Planes, etc. Really expensive hardware.
As time passed and technology advanced (in the real world) the writers (in their zeal to make the character technologically cutting edge) added things to his arsenal that could ONLY be afforded by zillionaire. By the time Frank Miller produced The Dark Knight Returns, the Batmobile was a Sherman Tank. I always felt these things called attention to his status as a very wealthy man. In addition, the simple Bat-a-Rangs of yesteryear were now laser-guided... programmable (See "Batman Returns"). This made the character less skilled. His aim didn't have to be perfect anymore. His timing didn't have to be perfect anymore when leaping off a building and throwing his catch line to swing away. Now, all he had to do was use his grappling gun.
Yes, the Batman was seen using a bullet proof vest in the early days of the comics. But that was NOT a consistent thing, and in fact it was rare when compared to his use of NON-BALLISTIC protection. Over the history of the character (from mid 1940's - 1990's and beyond) published stories were RIFE with examples of the character NOT wearing ANY kind of protective garmentry... He was getting shot, stabbed, slashed, cut, etc. In Batman The Animated series (which was heavily based on the comics) The character's outfit was CLEARLY NOT ARMORED. The concept of Batman wearing ballistic protection was still such a novelty when Tim Burton made his first Batman film in 1989 that it was a topic of conversation for many when it was announced the Bat costume would be body armor. Remember, contemporary Bat afficionados had really only seen an armored Batman at the finale of The Dark Knight Returns prior to that.
And if The Green Hornet and Kato went up against armed gangsters and hoodlums wearing nothing but their trench coat and chauffer outfits, they'd likely not last long either... but THEY do not wear armor either.
See... we're going in circles here.
Understand this, my only issue during this debate has ALWAYS been the LOGIC used by the opposing view. It is NOT consistent. You're fine suspending disbelief so long as the character in question is wearing something that is not objectionable to you. But when they wear tights (which you DO find objectionable), suddenly, "It is not realistic"... "He would not last out in the street wearing those tights"... etc. But all of those statements apply to characters wearing the more textured garments you DO prefer.
THAT'S my point.
If the statement is simply "I don't like tights. They AESTHETICALLY don't work for me.", Then my response becomes, "Well... then we'll agree to disagree, because I like them". And that's the end of that. But anti-tights wearing camp always feels the need to interject this whole "realism" aspect in their (your) argument and that's where you lose me. I maintain that when using that "realism logic" as a barometer, the ENTIRE CONCEPT of superheroes fighting crime (whether it is dressed in heavy capes, vision-reducing cowls and masks, thin tights, heavy armor, heavy boots... whatever) IT ALL FALLS APART. I personally do NOT consider one garment more or less "plausible" than any other when discussing FANTASY SUPERHEROES. To me, They are ALL PREPOSTEROUS... no matter what they're wearing... and I maintain that this very preposterousness is a BIG PART of my enjoyment... which this drive for "realism" is steadily killing off (Re: "Catpain America" movies where he hardly even wears his costume etc.)
The play is about BOTH the creators AND their characters. It examines the parallels between the personal attitudes, events, and ideas going on in the real lives of the creators and how it inspired and shaped similarities in their characters and fantasy universe.
The fantasy characters NOT created by Bob Kane, Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson who appear in this play (re: Nightwing, Harley Quinn, Batgirl) are there because they were created by LATER "Fathers" of the Dark Knight... men and women of the comic book industry who were inspired by the works of the original three artists . The play is partially about THAT as well. That play examines what Bob Kane thought of the use of HIS characters for purposes he never intended (like Richard Grayson being changed from Robin into Nightwing and turned from a supporting character into a lead character). Kane had some VERY strong feeling about that, which the play explores as well... hence Nightwing's appearance. With this play, I explore the works of other Batman mythology "fathers" throughout key points of the history of the character, like Bruce Timm and Paul Dini's work on Batman The Animated Series... which introduced Harley Quinn to the mythology (hence, HER appearance in the play). So this play is NOT just about and Bob, Bill, and Jerry and their creations. It is also about their LEGACY to inspire other artists and creators (like you, me, and many others on this board and others)... after they are gone.
No. It is NOT the same thing. If the material is different, and the details are different, and the color is different, and the cut of the garment is different, and the fit upon the figure is different, and manner of wear is different, then how the hell can it be the same??
Not only are the tights on the two outfits NOT the same fabric, they are not even the same color (mine-charcoal grey / Adam's-light grey). They do not even fit in the same way, Adam's (looser-fitting supplex) versus my skin-tight Spandex tights (fabricated on the dull side of the fabric)
In addition, The boots I fabricated are very tall (up to the knee cap) leather black boots, with straps and thick combat boot rubber sole grips.
The boots Adam wore were short (up to the shins), satin Navy Blue boots, with a flat sole.
The gauntlets I made for Batman are long, black thick leather gloves with oversized stiff Bat-fins
The ones Adam wore were long as well, but they were made of navy blue satin with soft, small bat fins.
Adam's Cape is a short navy blue, scalloped satin cape, that ends around his upper calves and is worn flipped behind the shoulders.
Mine is a long faux leather scalloped black cape that drags on the floor and is worn closed in front (Animated Series style). It features rods at the leading ends that allow for full extension whenever the character spreads the cape open like wings.
So, when you compare the costumes, it runs down like this: Cowls... VERY different. Utility belts... very different. Gloves and boots... very different. Cape very different. Tights... different. The costume I created shares FAR more in common with the Dead End outfit than it ever does with Adam West's.
I didn't spend $50,000 to "prove a point", smart guy. I spent it because I love the character. I have for 47 years. And this stage play was a concept that inspired me and excited me (as an artist) to produce it... just as it excited my student cast and crew, whom I have a tremendous amount of respect and affection for. these were young men and women who, like me were disappointed to see the budget for school performing arts SHRINKING every year in the public school. And as an Arts educator, I put my OWN MONEY where my mouth was and put something AMBITIOUS together that these performers could take pride and ownership in
It was also a play that served (and continues to serve) as a community outreach inspiration to the many poor young people living in Bob Kane and Bill Finger's own former stomping grounds. It shows them that creating something ambitious, and worthwhile was possible even for three poor guys living in the Bronx and working with limited resources. That is why our initial run of this show this summer was performed at DeWitt Clinton High School... the very alma mater of Bob Kane and Bill Finger (class of 1933).
My student performers (dressed in character and representing the FOTDK brand) have had the enrichment experience of doing community outreach to promote this play for well over a year now... and they continue to do so... going to Comic Cons, posing with children, performing for them. We are now even partnering up with the Make a Wish foundation as we move the brand forward.
So, once again, you speak about that which you know nothing about.
You're right. None of your business, but I thank you for your well wishes.
Yes I believe I already said that in my last post
Well I wouldn't be interested in either for Batman. That is why I suggested a tall, ATHLETICALLY BUILT actor, preferably one who is a good actor, and one who really understood and loved the character as Chris Reeve did.
Yes I am. In fact I'm being VERY thorough. I'm quoting YOU every step of the way as I respond to your different points. Your mentions of Alec Baldwin in both of your previous posts got responses from me. So the question is are YOU even reading any of this?
Maybe. I've certainly been crazy enough to put my passion and resources into seeing MY preferred version of the character produced in other media. Then again maybe... just maybe that's not enough.
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