Star Trek: Picard

[ScoutingForToys]

I have seen 1 season of TNG and the TNG films, so have seen a bit of them, but not enough to be a fan who only wanted to see TNG cast in Picard.

I still think Picard did a decent job of creating new characters and bringing some newer fans into the franchise. I know TNG fans probably just wanted a show focussing on that crew from the get go, but they built up to that for the final season.

It's not about the missing TNG crew, it's about how awful and utterly anti-Trek it was.
But there's little point of discussing it with someone that has seen so very little Trek.

 

[chrisstbh]

It's not about the missing TNG crew, it's about how awful and utterly anti-Trek it was.
But there's little point of discussing it with someone that has seen so very little Trek.

S2 was very clearly "we have like no budget for this season so we're gonna do a time travel story back to modern day earth".

 

[ScoutingForToys]

S2 was very clearly "we have like no budget for this season so we're gonna do a time travel story back to modern day earth".

Yeah they spent their budget on the first couple of episodes and spent the rest of their time in modern day earth.

 

[Skyroes]

I've watched all of Trek. Started when I was a kid with TOS in syndication, back before there was cable. Saw TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT first run. I even saw TNG early at a Trek convention, back when Trek conventions were basically the only Sci Fi conventions out there. Saw all the movies in theatres, including TMP. I rewatch the older Treks constantly.....I also like the New Trek episodes. So please stop acting like people who enjoy older Trek can't possibly enjoy new Trek.

This "You aren't a real Trek fan until you've done X,Y,Z" gatekeeping crap really needs to stop. It doesnt matter what Trek someone started with, and it doesn't matter if they like new Trek or not. If they like Trek, any of it, and watch it, that's all that is really required.

I don’t think that was the intention.

When speaking about Picard Season 1 & 2, fans who have seen the complete TNG story (along with the other series), the characters, the experiences and relationships that define them, their growth from Encounter at Farpoint to present day, etc, yes their perception is likely going to be different vs. someone who may be tuning in without all that history.

The initial question was around “why the hate” around the first two seasons, when you factor the above and see how the Picard character was handled, the detracting tone (casual murder, gore, the nonsensical profanity, and the notion that Starfleet can pick and choose who is “worthy” of saving, etc), it was too drastic of a shift away from the ideals of former iterations of Trek.

 

[Kebron]

I don’t think that was the intention.

When speaking about Picard Season 1 & 2, fans who have seen the complete TNG story (along with the other series), the characters, the experiences and relationships that define them, their growth from Encounter at Farpoint to present day, etc, yes their perception is likely going to be different vs. someone who may be tuning in without all that history.

The initial question was around “why the hate” around the first two seasons, when you factor the above and see how the Picard character was handled, the detracting tone (casual murder, gore, the nonsensical profanity, and the notion that Starfleet can pick and choose who is “worthy” of saving, etc), it was too drastic of a shift away from the ideals of former iterations of Trek.

He literally told someone that just because they watched Star Trek, they haven't watched Star Trek. He's gatekeeping. See his follow-up response where he says he's not going to talk to they person because they have seen so little Trek.

 

[a-dev]

Yeah they spent their budget on the first couple of episodes and spent the rest of their time in modern day earth.

Where the characters and their lingo blended in perfectly as it turns out

 

[ScoutingForToys]

Where the characters and their lingo blended in perfectly as it turns out

One of the major issues with NuTrek.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Nice.

 

[chrisstbh]

So do they give Jack a new show or just keep the Picard title.

 

[Kebron]

So do they give Jack a new show or just keep the Picard title.

New show was the idea but apprently they didn't contract the actor for anything beyond Picard. So who knows.

 

[e30ernest]

So do they give Jack a new show or just keep the Picard title.

The rumor is it would be named Star Trek: Legacy.

Spoiler

They even name-drop "Legacy" when the Enterprise G was about to leave Spacedock.

 

[Skyroes]

Red Letter Media’s final review is out, Rich and Mike are always entertaining lol.

 

[a-dev]

I don't agree with them about the TNG movies, at least not Generations and First Contact. And I think the Enterprise E is beautiful, don't get their dislike of it. That said it was cool to see the D in action again.

This popped up on Facebook recently -

Generations did have stunning shots of the ship - although the very first shot (which I think is that orange-lit one up top) was inexplicably brief and even cuts away before the entire ship would have come into frame. It's like they forgot in editing that this was the first time we'd be seeing the Enterprise D in the movie, we need to see the whole thing.

 

[karamazov80]

The initial question was around “why the hate” around the first two seasons, when you factor the above and see how the Picard character was handled, the detracting tone (casual murder, gore, the nonsensical profanity, and the notion that Starfleet can pick and choose who is “worthy” of saving, etc), it was too drastic of a shift away from the ideals of former iterations of Trek.

I agree with you. But as important of all of that is the handling of legacy characters. Picard in the first two seasons of, uh, Picard, is barely recognizable as Picard from the Next Generation. And so often that's what these media companies give us--something that superficially resembles something from the past, and that uses the IP and brand to capitalize on nostalgia, while getting the spirit totally wrong. Of course, you can always argue that characters change and evolve over time, but to go from one of the most inspirational TV characters ever created to a sad, weird old guy who would have no business running a McDonald's much less Starfleet's flagship is hard to wrap your head around.

 

[Skyroes]

I don't agree with them about the TNG movies, at least not Generations and First Contact. And I think the Enterprise E is beautiful, don't get their dislike of it. That said it was cool to see the D in action again.

This popped up on Facebook recently -

View attachment 636149


Generations did have stunning shots of the ship - although the very first shot (which I think is that orange-lit one up top) was inexplicably brief and even cuts away before the entire ship would have come into frame. It's like they forgot in editing that this was the first time we'd be seeing the Enterprise D in the movie, we need to see the whole thing.

I agree, I actually enjoyed the TNG movies, if I’m entertained than I consider it a success for me. Generations felt like an extended TNG episode, the refitted bridge looked amazing, the classic uniforms, the return of the Duras Sisters. The battle sequence was a let down but aside from that it gave us both Kirk and Picard on screen.

First Contact is typically the go to fan favourite, and it’s probably the strongest. Insurrection had a strong morality component to it which is very much in line with Trek, and Nemesis had some of the best action sequences we’ve seen in the franchise, the ending fell a little flat but that’s likely because they were expecting to maybe make another movie.

I agree with you. But as important of all of that is the handling of legacy characters. Picard in the first two seasons of, uh, Picard, is barely recognizable as Picard from the Next Generation. And so often that's what these media companies give us--something that superficially resembles something from the past, and that uses the IP and brand to capitalize on nostalgia, while getting the spirit totally wrong. Of course, you can always argue that characters change and evolve over time, but to go from one of the most inspirational TV characters ever created to a sad, weird old guy who would have no business running a McDonald's much less Starfleet's flagship is hard to wrap your head around.

You nailed it here, this is rampant in all these revived incarnations of the past. At least there was some redemption in Trek this season that wasn’t achieved in something like Star Wars. What they did to Luke made him unrecognizable.

 

[TheClient]

This season kinda lost me when we found it was going to be a showdown with the Borg…..again.

Imagine if the end of Star Trek 6, Chang was killed but then it was revealed that he was working with Khan all along.

It had nice character moments and it was great to see them again, but the actual story they told to justify it felt pretty mediocre to me. So in that way it reminded me more of Star Trek 5 than 6.

I hope we see more of old Worf. He was my favorite part, hands down.

 

[a-dev]

This season kinda lost me when we found it was going to be a showdown with the Borg…..again.

Imagine if the end of Star Trek 6, Chang was killed but then it was revealed that he was working with Khan all along.

I can see that becoming a common opinion over time.

The simple fact is the Borg had/have been worn into the ground and they became as much a Star Trek Voyager antagonist as a TNG one. The Changelings were not quite as over-exposed and I was excited at how the Federation were going to deal with this teleport weapon that gave the Titan such trouble in the early episodes. But after the battle in the Nebula that just wasn't a thing anymore, for reasons I can't remember it wasn't used again.

 

[Skyroes]

I can see that becoming a common opinion over time.

The simple fact is the Borg had/have been worn into the ground and they became as much a Star Trek Voyager antagonist as a TNG one. The Changelings were not quite as over-exposed and I was excited at how the Federation were going to deal with this teleport weapon that gave the Titan such trouble in the early episodes. But after the battle in the Nebula that just wasn't a thing anymore, for reasons I can't remember it wasn't used again.

Vadic had to ditch the portal weapon in order to go deeper into the nebula otherwise it would become unstable (something like that).

Regarding the Borg, I can see what you’re saying @TheClient - if you omit Season 2 from the equation, their use is much more forgiving.

The Borg in general were always more menacing, threatening and better written in TNG iterations vs. Voyager.

I enjoyed Voyager but they overcame the Borg far too easily with minimal losses.

Picard Season 3 utilizing the Borg works for me as it closes the Picard-Borg arc, they are ultimately defeated by the TNG crew where we first saw their appearance, and it closes off the narrative of what happened to the collective post-Endgame.

 

[TheClient]

Picard Season 3 utilizing the Borg works for me as it closes the Picard-Borg arc, they are ultimately defeated by the TNG crew where we first saw their appearance, and it closes off the narrative of what happened to the collective post-Endgame.

Can’t argue with your personal viewpoint, but to me those arcs were already wrapped up. Picard and Borg, done. VOY Endgame, done. It was over.

I like the Daleks as much as the next scifi enthusiast, but I do not think Trek needs their own Daleks. Or their own Joker (Khan). Leave the old villains alone and come up with some new problems to test our characters.

TNG isn’t an old rock band that I want to see “play the hits”.

 

[davejames]

I agree with you. But as important of all of that is the handling of legacy characters. Picard in the first two seasons of, uh, Picard, is barely recognizable as Picard from the Next Generation. And so often that's what these media companies give us--something that superficially resembles something from the past, and that uses the IP and brand to capitalize on nostalgia, while getting the spirit totally wrong. Of course, you can always argue that characters change and evolve over time, but to go from one of the most inspirational TV characters ever created to a sad, weird old guy who would have no business running a McDonald's much less Starfleet's flagship is hard to wrap your head around.

I didn't hate the first two seasons as much as most people here, as I thought they did have some interesting ideas sprinkled throughout, but I would agree the tone felt very off and it seemed to be trying way too hard to be "dark and edgy". And the depiction of Starfleet and the Federation in general always kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

So it was really nice to see Matalas do some course correcting with S3 and bring back the more optimistic spirit and a Starfleet that you could actually imagine people wanting to join and be a part of.