Star Wars: Ahsoka

[ajp4mgs]

I'm really loving this series. I think the first couple of episodes were a bit clunky on the writing side because Filoni was trying to make it a bit more accessible to non rebels viewers.

I know Jedi Master AJP is shaking his head dissapprovingly somewhere across the space whale inter dimensional interwebs but I can't help but enjoy this show. It is three episodes away from joining Andor, Rogue One and Mando series 1 & 2 in the Bravomite Canon. I feel like jolly General Grievous about to add another lightsaber to my Canon ... I mean collection.

Not shaking my head disapprovingly at all. I'm glad you're enjoying it, and hope it delivers you more enjoyment for the rest of the series and beyond.

For the record, I don't hate the show and don't think it's "bad." The elements I object to most were already in place in the Filoniverse long before this series. His version of SW just isn't for me; too far to the crazy mystical side and far too connected to PT Lucas concepts. I'm an OT Lucas guy.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

I'm not sure that screaming "NEVER!" and then just wailing uncontrollably on Baylan would have quite the same effect as it did on his father...

*shrug* worked on Vader. Unless we're saying Baylan is more powerful than Darth Vader.
Besides, this is Luke 5 years on. He's clearly progressed from the point he defeated Darth Vader.

 

[Khev]

*shrug* worked on Vader. Unless we're saying Baylan is more powerful than Darth Vader.
Besides, this is Luke 5 years on. He's clearly progressed from the point he defeated Darth Vader.

Luke: "Okay I'm going to go hide over here while you look for me over there." (Luke motions in the other direction)

"Then I'll be all 'I will not fight you' and then you say 'If you will not turn to the Dark Side, then perhaps SHE will...' and then I'm just going to go OFF. Trust me, this isn't going to work if we just fight normally."

Baylan: "What??"

 

[ScoutingForToys]

Luke: "Okay I'm going to go hide over here while you look for me over there." (Luke motions in the other direction)

"Then I'll be all 'I will not fight you' and then you say 'If you will not turn to the Dark Side, then perhaps SHE will...' and then I'm just going to go OFF. Trust me, this isn't going to work if we just fight normally."

Baylan: "What??"

So Baylan is more powerful than both Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader? Huh.

 

[Khev]

So Baylan is more powerful than both Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader? Huh.

Okay, serious answer? We simply don't know.

ROTJ wasn't a duel between two top combatants at the peak of their abilities (nor was the one between Ben and Vader in ANH.) My point was it was a very specific confrontation with much more going on than just two people trying to out fence one another.

Baylan does seem really, really good at this point in his life (physical prowess combined with experience and mastery of the Force) and that's not an insult to either Luke or Vader.

If you take PT lore into account where an apprentice like Maul can defeat a seasoned master like Qui Gon then I'm not even sure that ROTJ Luke would have been able to handle Shin let alone Baylan. I mean for story purposes I'm sure that Luke would and could "find a way" but I'd still be inclined to consider him the underdog.

 

[chrisstbh]

It wouldn't make sense for Luke to show up on Mandalore but it makes a lot of sense for Luke to help Ahsoka find and stop Thrawn.

I don't think Luke even knows who Thrawn is.

 

[Darthrazz]

I don't think Luke even knows who Thrawn is.

Thats a valid point.

 

[a-dev]

Vader and Luke didn't want to kill eachother because they're father and son. I'd venture that Vader could still have defeated and killed Luke in ROTJ if he had wanted to and if that was the plan. And it was only Vader who could defeat the Emperor by taking advantage of Palpatine's smug overconfidence.

Going into the ST we (including myself in that) probably had some overinflated ideas about how powerful Luke should be. Using the force to wipe out all those Gorilla Walkers on that salt planet, whatever it was called. And why? Just because he was older than he was in the OT? I mean why would we think he'd be hugely more powerful than Obi-Wan Kenobi let alone the 900 year old Yoda, neither of whom we ever saw perform feats like that (in 'live action' anyway).

So really I actually see no reason to think Luke is the ultimate living Jedi Master if I am to take the FiloniVerse as canon - which evidently holds that plenty of Jedi from the PT and Clone Wars era survived Order 66, Vader and the Inquisitors. This Baylan guy is older and more experienced than Luke and unlike Vader he would have no qualms about killing Luke if he opposed him in his mission.

Luke was special if he really was the last of the Jedi as Yoda said he was. And if none of this new stuff is canon then he still is.

 

[Khev]

Vader and Luke didn't want to kill eachother because they're father and son. I'd venture that Vader could still have defeated and killed Luke in ROTJ if he had wanted to and if that was the plan.

Agreed, and with that in mind I'd be inclined to say that if Vader and Baylan were to square off with no holds barred then Vader would probably win soundly. If not in sword combat then just by hoisting him in the air with the Force and strangling him. But I'm not sure that just because Luke "defeated" Vader in combat that he could do the same. Maybe if he went full "Dark Side" and made Baylan implode like that one Dark Trooper but I just don't think that Luke would fight that way which I'd think would give Baylan the edge.

And it was only Vader who could defeat the Emperor by taking advantage of Palpatine's smug overconfidence.

Going into the ST we (including myself in that) probably had some overinflated ideas about how powerful Luke should be. Using the force to wipe out all those Gorilla Walkers on that salt planet, whatever it was called. And why? Just because he was older than he was in the OT? I mean why would we think he'd be hugely more powerful than Obi-Wan Kenobi let alone the 900 year old Yoda, neither of whom we ever saw perform feats like that (in 'live action' anyway).

Yeah, I think we all believed that because we were still carrying assumptions from the OT which the PT soundly trounced on. In ESB when Yoda was talking about how moving an X-Wing was no different than moving a small rock (only different in your mind, unlearn what you have learned, etc.) then that really opened the doors to the Jedi doing some crazy stuff. But then the PT comes along and it turns out that full fledged Jedi really aren't that much more powerful than what he saw in the OT, they're just a lot faster, lol.

I know the Tartosfky cartoons had Yoda bringing down those giant Federation landing craft so at least there was that.

So really I actually see no reason to think Luke is the ultimate living Jedi Master if I am to take the FiloniVerse as canon - which evidently holds that plenty of Jedi from the PT and Clone Wars era survived Order 66, Vader and the Inquisitors. This Baylan guy is older and more experienced than Luke and unlike Vader he would have no qualms about killing Luke if he opposed him in his mission.

Luke was special if he really was the last of the Jedi as Yoda said he was. And if none of this new stuff is canon then he still is.

Yeah, I'm fine with dismissing characters like Baylan and Shin wholesale if you reject anything Filoni related as canon, but I see no reason *not* to assume that they might very well give Luke a run for his money or even defeat him if you *do* accept their very existence as canon.

 

[ajp4mgs]

The only way for me to believe that a lightsaber duel would ever last more than a few seconds is if the Sith/darksider is striking in attack mode while the Jedi/lightsider is almost exclusively using Jedi reflexes to anticipate those strikes and block them.

When a Jedi is willing to go beyond blocking strikes and looking for non-lethal openings, it should look like the Kenobi/Maul duel in Rebels and the Ahsoka/Marrok duel from a couple episodes back.

Kenobi was willing to "kill" and dispatch his opponent quickly because Maul can just use spider parts and come back from anything. Ahsoka was willing to get it over with and quick "kill" because she sensed this opponent was an undead spiritual puppet of Morgan Elsbeth.

All that to say this: I prefer to think that Luke lasted against Vader in ROTJ because his exceptional ("the Force is strong with this one") Jedi reflexes can keep him playing defense against anyone. When he switched to offense/attack, he was unstoppable (but also "unJedi"). He's special. Yoda knew it; Kenobi knew it; Vader knew it; Palpatine knew it.

So, if you want justification for Luke being even more gifted than Anakin in terms of reflexes and anticipation, it's there. If you want to believe that he would lose to Anakin/Vader without tapping into the dark side, there's justification for that too. And if you want to believe that *any* character could beat any other Force user, Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson is the justification for that.

Everyone is right in this debate; congratulations!

 

[jye4ever]

So far in 46 years worth of movies and expensive TV we’ve seen Luke:

Blow up a Death Star with a torpedo and help from Obi-Wan.

Cut off a Wampa’s arm and run fast.

Deflect blasts on a barge.

Knock down Vader.

Destroy robots.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Me thinks Baylan is not too concerned lol

 

[Khev]

 

[Khev]

The only way for me to believe that a lightsaber duel would ever last more than a few seconds is if the Sith/darksider is striking in attack mode while the Jedi/lightsider is almost exclusively using Jedi reflexes to anticipate those strikes and block them.

When a Jedi is willing to go beyond blocking strikes and looking for non-lethal openings, it should look like the Kenobi/Maul duel in Rebels and the Ahsoka/Marrok duel from a couple episodes back.

Kenobi was willing to "kill" and dispatch his opponent quickly because Maul can just use spider parts and come back from anything. Ahsoka was willing to get it over with and quick "kill" because she sensed this opponent was an undead spiritual puppet of Morgan Elsbeth.

All that to say this: I prefer to think that Luke lasted against Vader in ROTJ because his exceptional ("the Force is strong with this one") Jedi reflexes can keep him playing defense against anyone. When he switched to offense/attack, he was unstoppable (but also "unJedi"). He's special. Yoda knew it; Kenobi knew it; Vader knew it; Palpatine knew it.

So, if you want justification for Luke being even more gifted than Anakin in terms of reflexes and anticipation, it's there. If you want to believe that he would lose to Anakin/Vader without tapping into the dark side, there's justification for that too. And if you want to believe that *any* character could beat any other Force user, Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson is the justification for that.

Everyone is right in this debate; congratulations!

Also don't forget that you can simply blow on a Jedi and they'll die as long as sad music is playing while you do it, lol.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

I don't think Luke even knows who Thrawn is.

He probably doesn't but Ahsoka does and I'm sure Luke would help her if Ahsoka asked.

 

[The Buffinator]

He probably doesn't but Ahsoka does and I'm sure Luke would help her if Ahsoka asked.

Then again, he might just send a Force projection of himself instead.

Ahsoka: "But Luke, your presence could be the difference between winning and losing. You HAVE to come."

Luke: "Trust me, I've got a good feeling about this."

 

[Johnny Utah]

Seeing posts on social media saying Baylan is on the dark side of the Force, almost like a Sith.

But he isn't, he's a former Jedi turned mercenary for hire.

 

[Otomofan]

Why is his lightsaber orange? Why is he dressed like he's at a ren-fair?

 

[Khev]

Seeing posts on social media saying Baylan is on the dark side of the Force, almost like a Sith.

 

[ironwez20]

I saw a funny pic that the kid that said "master skywalker theres to many of them" is Baylen. That wouldn't make sense since Ashoka seems to be younger then him

 

[xipotec]

So we have:

The final season of Rebels with a real ending (possible)

The return of Hayden finally able to redeem his acting with some real great scenes.

Pretty much solid acting, effects, score, sound and world building.

New characters that are interesting and intriguing.

Live action Clone Wars.

Decent kid actors.

A story with mystery and interest.....

But we are still gonna cry woke and too many girls.........geez cant we just have nice things?

What I really hope is F&F conjure up a great arc to lead to the ST. All the plot holes people like to pick at could have some really cool answers. And just at this series is saving some of the PT for those if us who hated it, maybe some of the ST can be salvaged and have added depth to the thin story we have.

We could get to see why the New Republic fell so quickly, and perhaps the real story of how Luke got damaged so that he fell to dark side temptation. Thats a story I wohld
love to see,