Star Wars: Ahsoka

[The Buffinator]

It was definitely really Anakin. Jesus Christ, we've already seen weirder things happen through the force. Why some of you are trying to ruin one of the only decent things in this show is bizarre.

From a certain point of view...

 

[Bravomite]

When Luke faced Vader in his test, Vader was silent and reactive to Luke. He was just a manifestation of Luke's fear.

Ahsoka experienced her 'vision' following a near death experience. Anakin spoke to her directly, he set the tone of the lesson by igniting his lightsabre first and demanding that she choose between life and death. He even said that this was her final lesson, it wasn't framed as a test or trial. Why include the world between worlds if that was just a vision and not actually taking place there at all.

I think there is enough ambiguity and magic to the experience that it could be Anakin or hand waved away as her subconscious or some midichlorian force dream. But it's a bit arrogant of her subconscious to teach herself the final lesson . I also think that narratively it adds so much more weight if it is Anakin's teachings that allow her to be at peace with his fall to the darkside - afterall she had been unable to move beyond it on her own.

In any case I love the mystical element that this episode injects back into the force to allow us the scope to approach this from all the different angels that we have. As a wise character once said, 'it must be big the force' (translated from colloquial gungan).

 

[Khev]

"It was all a vision" makes much more sense to me than:

1. Ahsoka's body was in the ocean, but her spirit was in the WBW, and while her spirit was in the WBW she dreamed she was in the Clone Wars, where she met the real Anakin, despite all the other Clone Wars characters being fake, and the real Anakin, despite being an enlightened Force Ghost somehow needed to be told that the Siege of Mandalore occurred "after we parted ways," and the real Anakin apparently voluntarily kept morphing into suited Vader for dramatic effect rather than Ahsoka's own fears manifesting in real time, etc.

Now maybe the latter was what Filoni intended and I get that its fun to imagine a straight up reunion and so forth but, yeah...everything being the result of a singular vision is unified, cohesive, and consistent with what we've seen before.

 

[MyenShi]

Yes but as Buffinator already pointed out the WBW was previously depicted as a place that your physical body would enter, not your "spirit." Plus Anakin just shattering an entire bridge (which I assume would had have some other important purpose prior to Ahsoka standing on it) suggests to me that it was every bit a part of the vision as the other locations she traveled to.

I just interpret that as Anakin not giving a ****.

"**** your time space bridge. I'm the chosen one!"

We'll just agree to disagree on the other points.

 

[Bravomite]

"It was all a vision" makes much more sense to me than:

1. Ahsoka's body was in the ocean, but her spirit was in the WBW, and while her spirit was in the WBW she dreamed she was in the Clone Wars, where she met the real Anakin, despite all the other Clone Wars characters being fake, and the real Anakin, despite being an enlightened Force Ghost somehow needed to be told that the Siege of Mandalore occurred "after we parted ways," and the real Anakin apparently voluntarily kept morphing into suited Vader for dramatic effect rather than Ahsoka's own fears manifesting in real time, etc.

Now maybe the latter was what Filoni intended and I get that its fun to imagine a straight up reunion and so forth but, yeah...everything being the result of a singular vision is unified, cohesive, and consistent with what we've seen before.

He was walking her through her memories. That's why there is misty framing around the periphery, she could only see what she remembered.

 

[Khev]

When Luke faced Vader in his test, Vader was silent and reactive to Luke. He was just a manifestation of Luke's fear.

Ahsoka experienced her 'vision' following a near death experience. Anakin spoke to her directly, he set the tone of the lesson by igniting his lightsabre first and demanding that she choose between life and death. He even said that this was her final lesson, it wasn't framed as a test or trial. Why include the world between worlds if that was just a vision and not actually taking place there at all.

I think there is enough ambiguity and magic to the experience that it could be Anakin or hand waved away as her subconscious or some midichlorian force dream. But it's a bit arrogant of her subconscious to teach herself the final lesson . I also think that narratively it adds so much more weight if it is Anakin's teachings that allow her to be at peace with his fall to the darkside - afterall she had been unable to move beyond it on her own.

In any case I love the mystical element that this episode injects back into the force to allow us the scope to approach this from all the different angels that we have. As a wise character once said, 'it must be big the force' (translated from colloquial gungan).

Vader on Dagobah wasn't just a manifestation of Luke's fears though, it was created by the Force itself which was particularly concentrated in that one cave. So while it was playing on Luke's internal fears it was also running the show independent of him, and that's what I think was going on with Ahsoka. I think the Force itself took a moment to address Ahsoka's state of emotional and spiritual limbo and forced her to make a choice through a vision of Anakin.

 

[Khev]

He was walking her through her memories. That's why there is misty framing around the periphery, she could only see what she remembered.

If he was guiding her through her memories then why would he have taken her to Mandalore and then have to be explained by her where and when they were?

 

[jye4ever]

If Anakin shows up in nexts week episode and takes Jacen to a lightsaber show and tell i’m out!

 

[The Buffinator]

If Anakin shows up in nexts week episode and takes Jacen to a lightsaber show and tell i’m out!

C'mon Jye, it's a whole new ballgame now.

 

[ajp4mgs]

If he was guiding her through her memories then why would he have taken her to Mandalore and then have to be explained by her where and when they were?

Because you've put more thought into this than Filoni did.

I think your interpretation is the best way to salvage the most sense out of what is a nonsensical setup for anyone willing to actually think it all through. But I doubt it's what Filoni was actually going for. I'd be willing to bet that he intended for that to be the real Anakin (in spirit form) - with little more thought put into it than, "This would be cool... and fans will blow their loads when they see it!"

 

[jye4ever]

Because you've put more thought into this than Filoni did.

I think your interpretation is the best way to salvage the most sense out of what is a nonsensical setup for anyone willing to actually think it all through. But I doubt it's what Filoni was actually going for. I'd be willing to bet that he intended for that to be the real Anakin (in spirit form) - with little more thought put into it than, "This would be cool... and fans will blow their loads when they see it!"

And that they did lol

Filoni fans emotional release when Anakin met Ahsoka..

 

[Khev]

Because you've put more thought into this than Filoni did.

I think your interpretation is the best way to salvage the most sense out of what is a nonsensical setup for anyone willing to actually think it all through. But I doubt it's what Filoni was actually going for. I'd be willing to bet that he intended for that to be the real Anakin (in spirit form) - with little more thought put into it than, "This would be cool... and fans will blow their loads when they see it!"

I fear that you may be correct.

So with that in mind I hope that Filoni keeps quiet about what was really going on but doubt that he'll be able to hold out for long. I could even see him having planned that Anakin was just a vision and then pivoting after seeing so many PT fans weeping tears of joy about Anakin and Ahsoka having a real reunion. "Uhh, yeah, Anakin was definitely real, heh heh, glad I could make all your dreams come true!"

The existing ambiguity allows both interpretations and hopefully he has the wherewithal to realize that.

Because if that was the real Anakin then holy smokes that begs so many questions, like why didn't Ahsoka immediately say "Anakin?!?? Is that you??? Is this the after-life?? Tell me about this place, what's it like??? How are you? What questions have been answered now that you're here? Can you appear to me at will now? What about your son?? Do we even need the Jedi Order anymore if YOU the CHOSEN ONE can just appear to anyone and train them directly?!??"

As opposed to her seemingly instinctively realizing that this was all just a specific test initiated by the Force that she should just ride out without asking any peripheral questions.

Because again if that was really Anakin, the same one who was vain enough even in the after-life to deliberately appear "handsome" to his son (instead of the proud father figure that Luke would have recognized) then wouldn't it have been more "Anakin-like" for him to just say "f*** it, here's how to defeat Thrawn, actually never mind I'll just go do it myself" lol.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Because if that was the real Anakin then holy smokes that begs so many questions, like why didn't Ahsoka immediately say "Anakin?!?? Is that you??? Is this the after-life?? Tell me about this place, what's it like??? How are you? What questions have been answered now that you're here? Can you appear to me at will now? What about your son?? Do we even need the Jedi Order anymore if YOU the CHOSEN ONE can just appear to anyone and train them directly?!??"

Yep! And those questions barely even scratch the surface of how many it would raise. I like to imagine a few of the ways some of that might've come up with Ahsoka talking to the real Anakin:

"So, you can help people close to you get through their struggles with guilt to send them back with greater resolve? Boy, your son Luke sure is lucky to have you here if he ever goes through anything like that!"

"And any future grandkids struggling to understand your legacy, you'll be able to keep them from being genocidal maniacs, right? I mean, you just intervened in what should've been my death to make sure I'm better equipped to go deal with the forces of evil, so no way you wouldn't do the same for your family members, right?"

"Thanks for helping me get ready to go deal with Thrawn! Good to know if *somehow* Palpatine returns, you'll intervene to help those closest to you. Surely you'd be of greater need in that scenario, huh Skyguy?"

"By the way, if you're here to finish my training, isn't that going to make it harder for people to keep insisting I'm not a Jedi?"


In all seriousness, the in-universe implications would go well beyond just Anakin's role in past or future events. I consider your interpretation vastly preferable to what was the likely intent. As you've said, it would not only make more logical sense and help avoid potentially cavernous plot holes, but it has a precedent with Jedi cave lessons in the movies being initiated by the Force in order to resolve the character's biggest emotional hurdle or flaw. If this show ever actually mattered enough to me to include it in my personal canon, I'd go with your explanation of the Ahsoka/Anakin interactions and never look back.

 

[Bravomite]

If he was guiding her through her memories then why would he have taken her to Mandalore and then have to be explained by her where and when they were?

This was Filoni's version of a Christmas Carol and Anakin was playing each of the Ghosts. He first showed her present, paralysed with guilt over abandoning Anakin and fearful that if she were to embrace her emotions that they would lead her to follow in her master's footsteps. Next was her past as an uncertain padawan in her first battle, again guilt that her decisions / failures had caused the deaths of many clones as she took her first harsh steps on the journey as a child soldier, a jedi of the Republic. Next he showed her at the Siege of mandalore, where she had developed into a capable and powerful warrior directly before her triumph over maul. She had become what Anakin had trained her to be, a leader and a weapon of war. Lastly it was the possibility of her futures, life or death, Light or dark, fear or freedom. She misunderstood her master's legacy, fearing that it was inevitable that she would fall just like him - however, Anakin showed her that she was more than his training and his own failings and that he was more than that as well. He showed her the options but she alone had to make the choice. That was the lesson.

By design this could be Anakin or it could the force or it could all be in her head. It is science fantasy, we can each interpret it how we wish to.

 

[Khev]

Yep! And those questions barely even scratch the surface of how many it would raise. I like to imagine a few of the ways some of that might've come up with Ahsoka talking to the real Anakin:

"So, you can help people close to you get through their struggles with guilt to send them back with greater resolve? Boy, your son Luke sure is lucky to have you here if he ever goes through anything like that!"

"And any future grandkids struggling to understand your legacy, you'll be able to keep them from being genocidal maniacs, right? I mean, you just intervened in what should've been my death to make sure I'm better equipped to go deal with the forces of evil, so no way you wouldn't do the same for your family members, right?"

"Thanks for helping me get ready to go deal with Thrawn! Good to know if *somehow* Palpatine returns, you'll intervene to help those closest to you. Surely you'd be of greater need in that scenario, huh Skyguy?"

"By the way, if you're here to finish my training, isn't that going to make it harder for people to keep insisting I'm not a Jedi?"

Oh man, I feel a great disturbance in the PT fandom. As if thousands of ironwezy's and Bravomites who thought Anakin was real suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

In all seriousness, the in-universe implications would go well beyond just Anakin's role in past or future events. I consider your interpretation vastly preferable to what was the likely intent. As you've said, it would not only make more logical sense and help avoid potentially cavernous plot holes, but it has a precedent with Jedi cave lessons in the movies being initiated by the Force in order to resolve the character's biggest emotional hurdle or flaw. If this show ever actually mattered enough to me to include it in my personal canon, I'd go with your explanation of the Ahsoka/Anakin interactions and never look back.

I must say I'm a bit surprised at the sentiment from some PT fans that my interpretation "ruins" those scenes. As if Anakin's story was incomplete unless he somehow returned...wasn't his appearance at the Endor celebration enough? I would think more would be happy at the notion that the Force (and by extension much of the mythology of SW) is ambiguous and cool again...

Then the cherry on top is just the fan service of Hayden coming back to play a version of his character in a much more respectable way that allows *his* involvement in the franchise to be somewhat redeemed and end on a high note with not only his great performance but also a highlight real of live-action Clone Wars imagery and a much cooler duel than the whirly twirly ROTS battle and Reva infested Obi-Wan showdown.

 

[Khev]

This was Filoni's version of a Christmas Carol and Anakin was playing each of the Ghosts...

I kid, if that take makes sense to you and allows you to enjoy it more than far be it from me to say you're wrong. And I readily admit that Filoni himself may very well back up your claims the very next time he opens his mouth, lol.

 

[jye4ever]

Oh man, I feel a great disturbance in the PT fandom. As if thousands of ironwezy's and Bravomites who thought Anakin was real suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.


I must say I'm a bit surprised at the sentiment from some PT fans that my interpretation "ruins" those scenes. As if Anakin's story was incomplete unless he somehow returned...wasn't his appearance at the Endor celebration enough? I would think more would be happy at the notion that the Force (and by extension much of the mythology of SW) is ambiguous and cool again...

Then the cherry on top is just the fan service of Hayden coming back to play a version of his character in a much more respectable way that allows *his* involvement in the franchise to be somewhat redeemed and end on a high note with not only his great performance but also a highlight real of live-action Clone Wars imagery and a much cooler duel than the whirly twirly ROTS battle and Reva invested Obi-Wan showdown.

More like Reva Infested lol

 

[Khev]

More like Reva Infested lol

I thought that's what I typed, lol. Fixed.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I must say I'm a bit surprised at the sentiment from some PT fans that my interpretation "ruins" those scenes. As if Anakin's story was incomplete unless he somehow returned...wasn't his appearance at the Endor celebration enough? I would think more would be happy at the notion that the Force (and by extension much of the mythology of SW) is ambiguous and cool again...

PT fans are presumably also OT fans, so yeah, there shouldn't be any need for better Anakin closure than the end of ROTJ. And by virtue of being OT fans, they should also have no problem embracing the lore consistency of the Force itself facilitating a vision experience for those who have learned to connect with it. To the contrary, having the real Anakin willingly show himself in Vader gear *should* make them hesitant to embrace that, IMO.

Even just metaphorically, there are superficial parallels that someone could point to. Luke having to literally descend into his cave test matches Ahsoka descending into hers. And smoke/fog/mist being an ambient part of the murky environment/aesthetic is present in both. Also, Luke having to see himself in Vader as part of his vision lines up with Ahsoka seeing through Sith eyes as part of hers; both instances showing how acting out of fear (and ultimately aggression) will control their destinies if they let it.

And if there are any reservations about why Luke failed his test but Ahsoka passed hers, look no further than Luke's test taking place where the dark side was the dominant Force energy. There's no such indication of that in Ahsoka's case.

 

[Buttmunch]

Just hoping when Hot Toys does Ahsoka in white that we get a smiling headsculpt.

Because that worked so well on their Doc Ock? No thanks. A slight smirk, sure, but no teeth please.