Star Wars: Ahsoka

[The Buffinator]

No, but it does make it relatively good.

No it’s still relatively bad, just not relatively worse.

 

[ZE_501]

There are almost zero military tactics in the PT or the Clone Wars for that matter. Masses of soldiers and war machines just charge at each other firing, for the most part.

I get that Star Wars isn't supposed to be Zero Dark Thirty most of the time, but it takes me right out of it along with the child soldiers and unkillable Jedi with their glow sticks walking into a hail of gunfire.

Lucas started this mess and Disney just perpetuates it. I'm watching those live action Clone Wars scenes and it just takes me right out of it. Ah well.

 

[The Buffinator]

The PT sucks as much as the ST. Sir! Revenge of the sith is a triumph! You can say whatever you want about the others but the greatness of that movie propelled the PT to where it is today. Hell they could have just done that movie. Yes it has glaring issues but it is a damn good star wars movie. No movie in the St came close to the music, character arc, fight scenes and emotional stakes. Watching ST felt like watching a corporate shell, a soulless and shallow experience. PT wasn't perfect at all but Lucas knew what he wanted and he tried his best and he knew what the story was going to be. Revenge of the sith isn't perfect but you can tell he listened to feedback and tried all he could to make the fans happy with that film and thats why people still love it to this day and a huge reason why we are here talking about Ahoka and Anakin instead of Rey and whoever is in her group lol.

Meh.

 

[ironwez20]

No, but it does make it relatively good.

Are you talking about the Jacen kid? Yea he's very annoying. The whole "kid who has jedi powers and can sense things no one else can" Is really annoying. It's like each time they introduce this trope they expect us the audience to be like "O WOW! I wonder what's with this kid! IS HE A JEDI!!"

 

[ironwez20]

Meh.

lol. Infact. I want you to pop in that Revenge of the sith bluray and witness peak fiction.

 

[ironwez20]

There are almost zero military tactics in the PT or the Clone Wars for that matter. Masses of soldiers and war machines just charge at each other firing, for the most part.

I get that Star Wars isn't supposed to be Zero Dark Thirty most of the time, but it takes me right out of it along with the child soldiers and unkillable Jedi with their glow sticks walking into a hail of gunfire.

Lucas started this mess and Disney just perpetuates it. I'm watching those live action Clone Wars scenes and it just takes me right out of it. Ah well.

it's so funnyt to me that in the clone wars they are like superheroes and unkillable but in ROTS they die so easily. Like they don't even put up a fight and I know some of them were taken by surprise but most of the jedi felt the attack coming. That one dude who was on the bike and got shot down makes me laugh all the time. He doesn't even look when the clones slow down and go in the back of him. Was he stupid?

 

[xipotec]

I think its important to remember that as good as these episodes have been, the do not make the PT "better" I have tried several times over the years to re watch the PT.....its not possible for me, its just that bad on every level. I can only tolerate ROTS for certain parts, somewhat like watching TPM for just the Maul duel.

Seeing an adult write some PT era scenes just makes it WORSE.

I can watch the ST over again, not because the story is better, it just has more cool scenes and is better made and acted.

Heres a question for the group, was that REALLY Anakin, or was that Asokas mind reconciling her feeling for Anakin?

It sort of seems to be the latter, and not some force ghost.

People keep saying Anakin taught her this or that, but I do not think it was Anakin, just Ashoka's inner dialogue reconciling her traumatic childhood.

 

[Khev]

it's so funnyt to me that in the clone wars they are like superheroes and unkillable but in ROTS they die so easily. Like they don't even put up a fight and I know some of them were taken by surprise but most of the jedi felt the attack coming. That one dude who was on the bike and got shot down makes me laugh all the time. He doesn't even look when the clones slow down and go in the back of him. Was he stupid?

"Dude?" "He?"

 

[Khev]

I think its important to remember that as good as these episodes have been, the do not make the PT "better" I have tried several times over the years to re watch the PT.....its not possible for me, its just that bad on every level. I can only tolerate ROTS for certain parts, somewhat like watching TPM for just the Maul duel.

Seeing an adult write some PT era scenes just makes it WORSE.

I can watch the ST over again, not because the story is better, it just has more cool scenes and is better made and acted.

Heres a question for the group, was that REALLY Anakin, or was that Asokas mind reconciling her feeling for Anakin?

It sort of seems to be the latter, and not some force ghost.

People keep saying Anakin taught her this or that, but I do not think it was Anakin, just Ashoka's inner dialogue reconciling her traumatic childhood.

No it was not really Anakin, he was just a manifestation of the Force for the purpose of the trial she was experiencing. Everything Ahsoka was experiencing were her own issues and memories which is why "he" didn't always know where she was or what was going on. But even though it wasn't really Anakin it still allowed Hayden to play a version of Anakin that most of us wish we had all along.

 

[Khev]

There are almost zero military tactics in the PT or the Clone Wars for that matter. Masses of soldiers and war machines just charge at each other firing, for the most part.

I get that Star Wars isn't supposed to be Zero Dark Thirty most of the time, but it takes me right out of it along with the child soldiers and unkillable Jedi with their glow sticks walking into a hail of gunfire.

Lucas started this mess and Disney just perpetuates it. I'm watching those live action Clone Wars scenes and it just takes me right out of it. Ah well.

It's US Civil War tactics which works for PT era battles IMO.

 

[ZE_501]

It's US Civil War tactics which works for PT era battles IMO.

I can see what it's reminiscent of, but personally I just can't buy into it when I see a civilization with this level of technology.

The catastrophic interaction between lasguns and shields in Herbert's 'Dune' universe make charging at each other for melee combat logical enough; but lining up to get shot to hell en masse in the Star Wars universe just does not compute.

 

[RavenAsh]

No it was not really Anakin, he was just a manifestation of the Force for the purpose of the trial she was experiencing. Everything Ahsoka was experiencing were her own issues and memories which is why "he" didn't always know where she was or what was going on. But even though it wasn't really Anakin it still allowed Hayden to play a version of Anakin that most of us wish we had all along.

I feel the same, although his response of ‘I’ve heard that before’ to her ‘I will not fight you’ which echoed Luke in ROTJ tells me it was more than just Ahsoka’s mind at play.

Very reminiscent of Harry Potter and Dumbledore in King’s Cross Station in Deathly Hallows Part 2. Pretty much up to the viewer’s interpretation, ‘Of course it’s happening inside your head, but why should that mean that it isn’t real?’.

However, the importance of it is all about our protagonist learning a personal lesson which gets them prepared for the climax of the story.

 

[MyenShi]

I feel the same, although his response of ‘I’ve heard that before’ to her ‘I will not fight you’ which echoed Luke in ROTJ tells me it was more than just Ahsoka’s mind at play.

Very reminiscent of Harry Potter and Dumbledore in King’s Cross Station in Deathly Hallows Part 2. Pretty much up to the viewer’s interpretation, ‘Of course it’s happening inside your head, but why should that mean that it isn’t real?’.

However, the importance of it is all about our protagonist learning a personal lesson which gets them prepared for the climax of the story.

There's such much weight in the relatively few lines both characters have in those scenes that ties the OT, PT, and TCW together in a way I never thought we'd see in live action on screen. It's an incredible accomplishment.

And also, I see you have a new crush...

 

[Khev]

I feel the same, although his response of ‘I’ve heard that before’ to her ‘I will not fight you’ which echoed Luke in ROTJ tells me it was more than just Ahsoka’s mind at play.

Yes and that very line definitely had me (and probably most viewers) initially assuming it was really him. Now we could infer that Ahsoka learned some details of that famous duel through her interactions with Luke in BOBF which the vision was then echoing but otherwise I agree, it's fun to have that little sliver of doubt to make us wonder just what really was going on.

I still think that Anakin was just a manifestation of the Force and that it was the Force itself who had him reference ROTJ just to add a level of authenticity to her vision that even she couldn't appreciate, lol.

 

[The Buffinator]

lol. Infact. I want you to pop in that Revenge of the sith bluray and witness peak fiction.

Can I borrow your blu-ray? I seem to have misplaced the copy that I never bought lol…

 

[MyenShi]

I can see what it's reminiscent of, but personally I just can't buy into it when I see a civilization with this level of technology.

The catastrophic interaction between lasguns and shields in Herbert's 'Dune' universe make charging at each other for melee combat logical enough; but lining up to get shot to hell en masse in the Star Wars universe just does not compute.

I agree. I try really hard to shut my brain off in those moments, but I've always disliked the lack of tactics employed on either side of the Clone Wars.

The Battle of Geonosis in AOTC set the precedent of just having both sides rush each other on the ground. Just got worse in animation.

You all have blasters. Don't just charge each other. Where's the combined arms tactics? Air support? Why aren't they using the armor and massive ships properly? It gets very frustrating the more you think about it.

I partly rationalize it internally by saying it's just a good example of Jedi not being cut out to be military commanders. And they aren't. But someone please pick up a Military Tactics 101 book.

I just imagine the highly trained Clone officers with galactic combat tactics indoctrinated into their Jango brains eye rolling every time a Jedi orders their battalion to charge a position head on.

 

[RavenAsh]

There's such much weight in the relatively few lines both characters have in those scenes that ties the OT, PT, and TCW together in a way I never thought we'd see in live action on screen. It's an incredible accomplishment.

And also, I see you have a new crush...

Each line feels like it conveys such a level of history between Anakin and Ahsoka that works on two levels. Obviously, for those of us who've spent over a decade and a half with them, we're reminiscing and recalling parallels. We're getting emotional seeing these characters we adore come to life in this new way. For someone who has never seen TCW, it's giving off a very different reaction. It's denoting their relationship in short, but powerful moments- and lets the viewer consider the breadth of their relationship.. It's actually something I think Filoni is doing pretty well with Baylan and Shin, a lot of show don't tell. Doing that puts a lot of pressure on the actors to be able to convey it though, and I think both Hayden and Ariana Greenblatt did a fantastic job of it.

Also, on your second comment...

Yes and that very line definitely had me (and probably most viewers) initially assuming it was really him. Now we could infer that Ahsoka learned some details of that famous duel through her interactions with Luke in BOBF which the vision was then echoing but otherwise I agree, it's fun to have that little sliver of doubt to make us wonder just what really was going on.

I still think that Anakin was just a manifestation of the Force and that it was the Force itself who had him reference ROTJ just to add a level of authenticity to her vision that even she couldn't appreciate, lol.

I almost wonder if Filoni wrote the sequence without that line and thought it was too obvious that it was all in Ahsoka's mind, so he added it just throw us off just a little bit. It's fun and adds the levels of mysticism I want when we're talking about the force. What you bring up of added authenticity definitely makes it feel more like the Force has intervened to give her that choice of living or dying. To me, that death is physical because of her loss to Baylan, but it's also an emotional one. This was a character that was pretty closed off in the first four episodes, who was just moving from place to place where she 'was needed'. Her home? A ship. She wasn't living. I appreciate that theme a lot as I think we often can get caught up in the immediacy of life that we don't take enough time to 'smell the flowers'.

Completely agree though and it made those moments more special because of the way it blends reality into visions.

 

[e30ernest]

I feel the same, although his response of ‘I’ve heard that before’ to her ‘I will not fight you’ which echoed Luke in ROTJ tells me it was more than just Ahsoka’s mind at play.

Yeah this line as well as how he fights makes me think this is really Anakin's ghost, or Anakin influencing the vision in Ahsoka's mind through the Force. Anakin here seemed to fight in between the ROTS Anakin and the more powerful, deliberate style of Vader. I don't think it was just a conjured-up vision by Ahsoka.

In addition to that, the fact that Jacen can hear the lightsabers clashing means the fight really did happen in another plane of reality. It wasn't just in Ahoska's mind. I think the writers had Jacen here in this episode to hint at Ahsoka vs Anakin being real rather than being imagined.

 

[Khev]

I almost wonder if Filoni wrote the sequence without that line and thought it was too obvious that it was all in Ahsoka's mind, so he added it just throw us off just a little bit. It's fun and adds the levels of mysticism I want when we're talking about the force. What you bring up of added authenticity definitely makes it feel more like the Force has intervened to give her that choice of living or dying. To me, that death is physical because of her loss to Baylan, but it's also an emotional one. This was a character that was pretty closed off in the first four episodes, who was just moving from place to place where she 'was needed'. Her home? A ship. She wasn't living. I appreciate that theme a lot as I think we often can get caught up in the immediacy of life that we don't take enough time to 'smell the flowers'.

Completely agree though and it made those moments more special because of the way it blends reality into visions.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Khev]

Yeah this line as well as how he fights makes me think this is really Anakin's ghost, or Anakin influencing the vision in Ahsoka's mind through the Force. Anakin here seemed to fight in between the ROTS Anakin and the more powerful, deliberate style of Vader. I don't think it was just a conjured-up vision by Ahsoka.

In addition to that, the fact that Jacen can hear the lightsabers clashing means the fight really did happen in another plane of reality. It wasn't just in Ahoska's mind. I think the writers had Jacen here in this episode to hint at Ahsoka vs Anakin being real rather than being imagined.

Or you could take it as Jaycen reading her mind as Baylan did to Sabine the previous episode. Either interpretation works. In fact, if you want to say that it was Ahsoka really fighting an actual battle in another dimension instead of her just imagining it well it can *still* all be "just a vision" even if it was really her fighting. I say that because in ESB Luke had a "real" duel with a "fake" Darth Vader on Dagobah.