Star Wars: Ahsoka

[Asta]

Since when has Star Wars done subtle lol?

Edit: I don’t consider Andor part of this haha

Yes, it hasn't been subtle since the beginning. It was a marriage of east and west: Vader with his Samurai inspired helmet, Han Solo with his vest and tied down quick draw holster.

Much of The Mandalorian was full on wild west. Then Ahsoka appeared in her Japanese inspired costume, and the thirteenth chapter being a love letter to Kurosawa.

Star Wars has always been a version of our world, transported to another galaxy in another time, which made it familiar and accessible.


Sabine's training was very on the nose though. The influences were so close that the separation between worlds became transparently thin.

It's okay if you lose yourself in it, and imagine that these ancient influences somehow survived and resurfaced in our world.

 

[chrisstbh]

Much of The Mandalorian was full on wild west.

I vividly remember people praising that aspect of the show. But I suppose it's only a problem when Filoni does it .

 

[Asta]

Cowboys, samurai and knights...

This dude in sixteenth century Maximilian armour:

Though the illusion is somewhat broken when seen in full:

Three episodes down and not a single Benny Hill moment!

Ahsoka is looking much more promising than TBOBF and OWK.

 

[chrisstbh]

I think anyone hoping to see Thrawn in action is going to be disappointed.

I don’t see him appearing until the last episode, and then saving him for the movie.

 

[jaztermareal]

Since when has Star Wars done subtle lol?

Edit: I don’t consider Andor part of this haha

Star Wars before Filoni was a hell of a lot more subtle than after he came along. Compare Obiwan training Luke to Ahsoka. One is reminiscent of samurai movie training sequences and involves the character being "blindfolded", the other is directly copyring the clothing, gear and even name dropping Zatoichi pretty much. One is infuenced by, the other is copying. One is subtle enough to blend, the other is so obvious it stands out. Same thing with Cad Bane, another Filoni character.

The OT had influences, but they were not so on the nose and they were usually blended. Filoni/Disney in general has been incredibly blunt in how they reference. For example, creatures in the OT/PT were similar enough to real animals that we could understand their purpose but also different enough to be alien to us (Dewbacks are large and mostly furless beasts that can one can ride, much like an elephant, but they look nothing like an elephant. Tauntauns serve a role like that of a horse but again look very different from horses) Meanwhile, Filoni / Disney both make things directly like what we have on earth (Loth cats don't just resemble cats but they behave like them and make the same sounds, while the Wolves Filoni includes are, well, wolves, the spirit owl is, well, an owl etc etc etc).

 

[Dark_Knight_89]

I must be the only one here that liked kenobi lol

I liked Obi-Wan Kenobi!

 

[Buttmunch]

I think anyone hoping to see Thrawn in action is going to be disappointed.

I don’t see him appearing until the last episode, and then saving him for the movie.

I don’t think so. We’ve seen nearly all of the trailer material now. Just needing Marrock’s and Baylan’s fights with Ahsoka and they are at the location for those now. Thrawn could easily show up at the end of the next episode. He’s got to do something pretty remarkable first on Ahsoka to set up the movie IMO. There has been a LOT of build up for Thrawn so they need to deliver on him being such a threat. Then maybe tease the original trio coming into play for the movie at the end.

 

[Asta]

Star Wars before Filoni was a hell of a lot more subtle than after he came along. Compare Obiwan training Luke to Ahsoka. One is reminiscent of samurai movie training sequences and involves the character being "blindfolded", the other is directly copyring the clothing, gear and even name dropping Zatoichi pretty much. One is infuenced by, the other is copying. One is subtle enough to blend, the other is so obvious it stands out. Same thing with Cad Bane, another Filoni character.

The OT had influences, but they were not so on the nose and they were usually blended. Filoni/Disney in general has been incredibly blunt in how they reference. For example, creatures in the OT/PT were similar enough to real animals that we could understand their purpose but also different enough to be alien to us (Dewbacks are large and mostly furless beasts that can one can ride, much like an elephant, but they look nothing like an elephant. Tauntauns serve a role like that of a horse but again look very different from horses) Meanwhile, Filoni / Disney both make things directly like what we have on earth (Loth cats don't just resemble cats but they behave like them and make the same sounds, while the Wolves Filoni includes are, well, wolves, the spirit owl is, well, an owl etc etc etc).

Wolves reminded me of Lak Sivrak in ANH.

I never realised until just now that there was another one in the cantina.

Arleil Schous:

Sivrak was known as "Hyena" or "Hyena-Man" on set, and Schous as "Bat-Demon Guy", "Wolfe" or "Wolfman". In Star Wars canon they're two different species: Shistavanen and Defel.

Both were based on the same werewolf Halloween mask. Rick Baker had previously adapted the one used for Arleil Schous' for 'The Thing in the Attic', a 1974 Halloween show put on by Bob Burns in which Baker wore it to portray a demon.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program: Ahsoka.

 

[jye4ever]

I don’t think so. We’ve seen nearly all of the trailer material now. Just needing Marrock’s and Baylan’s fights with Ahsoka and they are at the location for those now. Thrawn could easily show up at the end of the next episode. He’s got to do something pretty remarkable first on Ahsoka to set up the movie IMO. There has been a LOT of build up for Thrawn so they need to deliver on him being such a threat. Then maybe tease the original trio coming into play for the movie at the end.

I love how they are throwing Thrawn’s name around as if every single viewer knows who he is lol

Thrawn is coming!

Whoooooo!

 

[Sixth Scale Man]

“I….am………….Thrawn!”

 

[HPGR_Thrawn]

I thought this week's episode was fine. Cool ship fight and little moments. The scene that got me the most honestly was

Spoiler

the cut back to the cup after Sabine says: "You win this round."

Still not really sure why Ahsoka ever started to train Sabine at all when you've got Kanan's son right there. Maybe Hera wouldn't allow it?

 

[jaztermareal]

Wolves reminded me of Lak Sivrak in ANH.

View attachment 659471

I never realised until just now that there was another one in the cantina.

Arleil Schous:

View attachment 659472

Sivrak was known as "Hyena" or "Hyena-Man" on set, and Schous as "Bat-Demon Guy", "Wolfe" or "Wolfman". In Star Wars canon they're two different species: Shistavanen and Defel.

Both were based on the same werewolf Halloween mask. Rick Baker had previously adapted the one used for Arleil Schous' for 'The Thing in the Attic', a 1974 Halloween show put on by Bob Burns in which Baker wore it to portray a demon.

View attachment 659479

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program: Ahsoka.

difference here being that it was a budget issue so they ended up with halloween masks for background cantina dudes. they were not meant to be anything more than background extras. If ANH wasn't so low budget they would have had more bespoke creatures even in the background. Apples to Oranges

 

[Dave_W]

One guy online said that one of the reasons the studios aren't caving in to the writers strike and revealing the actual streaming figures, is because the figures are actually a lot lower than people realise and by not letting those figures get out, they are artificially keeping the stock price high, or at least trying to keep the stock price from falling because investors would know that streaming isn't as successful as they are lead to believe.

 

[Asta]

difference here being that it was a budget issue so they ended up with halloween masks for background cantina dudes. they were not meant to be anything more than background extras. If ANH wasn't so low budget they would have had more bespoke creatures even in the background. Apples to Oranges

Oddly, Lak Sivrak and the Shistavanen 'wolf man' race have remained canon according to Wookieepedia, even though Lucas digitally removed Sivrak and replaced him with Ketwol in the Special Edition (because he didn't like the werewolf mask).

Arleil Schous and the Defel race also remained canon. Lucas replaced the second shot of him with Melas in the Special Edition, because he didn't like the altered werewolf mask either.

As if Star Wars wasn't already tangled up enough by its own plot holes and retcons.

 

[YoNoSe]

I hope Starkiller uses a Star Destroyer to destroy a Death Star. Get some subtles back in this franchise.

 

[Mondragon]

.... I can see the cowboy theme (though mostly the hat) might stand out as to on-the-nose, yet the same way the eastern, classical antiquity, knights in armor, WWII, Western, Kurosawa to Leone, etc, influences are mixed in, the root sketch (while not directly manifest in the OT) speaks to those sources, when combined with the sci-fantasy-alien elements, he reads to me as archetypical SW, or rather he fits right in.

Likely Nilo Rodis-Jamero concept:

Star Wars before Filoni was a hell of a lot more subtle than after he came along. Compare Obiwan training Luke to Ahsoka. One is reminiscent of samurai movie training sequences and involves the character being "blindfolded", the other is directly copyring the clothing, gear and even name dropping Zatoichi pretty much. One is infuenced by, the other is copying. One is subtle enough to blend, the other is so obvious it stands out. Same thing with Cad Bane, another Filoni character.

The OT had influences, but they were not so on the nose and they were usually blended. Filoni/Disney in general has been incredibly blunt in how they reference. For example, creatures in the OT/PT were similar enough to real animals that we could understand their purpose but also different enough to be alien to us (Dewbacks are large and mostly furless beasts that can one can ride, much like an elephant, but they look nothing like an elephant. Tauntauns serve a role like that of a horse but again look very different from horses) Meanwhile, Filoni / Disney both make things directly like what we have on earth (Loth cats don't just resemble cats but they behave like them and make the same sounds, while the Wolves Filoni includes are, well, wolves, the spirit owl is, well, an owl etc etc etc).

Agree, though Lucas opened the door for it, it's part of the visual and thematic language and apeal of the universe, there is not much subtle with Filoni, who more crassly apes the source material outright. As did Favreau, with his Lone Wolf & Cub reference wanting it in there, whether it fits the character Luke or not.
While the acting (the two main leads) is pretty stiff, and some of the costumes look like cosplay (or rather not lived in), Still plenty here to enjoy.

 

[jaztermareal]

I hope Starkiller uses a Star Destroyer to destroy a Death Star. Get some subtles back in this franchise.

Love the sarcastic humor but the strawman nature of the comment prevented it from getting a full laugh. I never liked the ridiculously OP characters from the games either, but luckily they were never canon, neither were the cartoons truly canon (George considered only live action stuff true canon) until Disney came along and decided everything would be canon going forward, which is why we now have hyperspace whales. Sigh.

 

[YoNoSe]

Perhaps Walrus Man and Squid Head could discuss the creation of life in front of dancing ovaries to get back to that hallmark Lucas je ne sais quoi.

Was Straw Man in the cantina or Jabba's palace? I get so lost in the allegory sometimes.

 

[Mondragon]

.

Perhaps Walrus Man and Squid Head could discuss the creation of life in front of dancing ovaries to get back to that hallmark Lucas je ne sais quoi.

Was Straw Man in the cantina or Jabba's palace? I get so lost in the allegory sometimes.

So long as we don't resort to Adhominamans for this debate...

 

[davejames]

Yes, it hasn't been subtle since the beginning. It was a marriage of east and west: Vader with his Samurai inspired helmet, Han Solo with his vest and tied down quick draw holster.

Much of The Mandalorian was full on wild west. Then Ahsoka appeared in her Japanese inspired costume, and the thirteenth chapter being a love letter to Kurosawa.

Star Wars has always been a version of our world, transported to another galaxy in another time, which made it familiar and accessible.


Sabine's training was very on the nose though. The influences were so close that the separation between worlds became transparently thin.

It's okay if you lose yourself in it, and imagine that these ancient influences somehow survived and resurfaced in our world.

I have no issue whatsoever with the samurai design influences in this show, or the western ones in Mandalorian. It adds a bit of variety and is a nice change from the super generic outfits everyone wore in the OT.

The only Filoni character that kinda crossed the line for me was Cad Bane with his silly cowboy hat and Clint Eastwood voice, but everything else I think has blended into the SW universe well.