Star Wars: Andor (April 22, 2025)

[TaliBane]

Your reward sig is funny because the criminal being sought bought 20th Century Fox.

 

[Khev]

I'm sure LFL thinks that making the Empire and stormtroopers in any way competent so they have to be presented as PT battle droids in a Benny Hill chase.

Unfortunately that choice defuses the stakes (you wait bored, over and over, as the legion of stormies is decimated effortlessly in 45 seconds with heroes uninjured) and makes the heroes seem like idiots that they can't prevail in a wider war if they win every battle so laughably easily.

Stormtroopers are supposed to represent murderous authoritarian regimes, and just like in the real world, they are supposed to be not just difficult adversaries, but a force that could win.

Portraying them as goofballs in armor made of white marzipan de-fangs and dumbs down the whole thing and renders the shows about nothing more than nostalgia and merch sales.

Who knew back in 1977 that when the Stormies raided Leia's ship all she had to do was hide around the corner and then slap them all in their helmeted faces when they walked by.

 

[xipotec]

Who knew back in 1977 that when the Stormies raided Leia's ship all she had to do was hide around the corner and then slap them all in their helmeted faces when they walked by.

Bucketheads have literally always been a mess….

if you count all the shots in all the trilogys and the hits they make, the accuaracy is less than 1%.

 

[Khev]

Bucketheads have literally always been a mess….

if you count all the shots in all the trilogys and the hits they make, the accuaracy is less than 1%.

Only against main characters though.

They obliterate Rebel grunts, both in the OT and on Scarif:

 

[xipotec]

Only against main characters though.

They obliterate Rebel grunts, both in the OT and on Scarif:

so bullet proof main characters are the norm…..

 

[Khev]

so bullet proof main characters are the norm…..

Yes. So I think that the main issue with people's perceptions that Disney SW isn't treating Stormtroopers as being competent enough, at least on the D+ shows, is that they aren't creating enough opportunities for the Stormies to prove themselves against non-main characters. OT, ST and RO Stormies all got got to take out regular grunts and freedom fighters to show why they are feared but we haven't really seen that in Mando or OWK.

 

[xipotec]

Yes. So I think that the main issue with people's perceptions that Disney SW isn't treating Stormtroopers as being competent enough, at least on the D+ shows, is that they aren't creating enough opportunities for the Stormies to prove themselves against non-main characters. OT, ST and RO Stormies all got got to take out regular grunts and freedom fighters to show why they are feared but we haven't really seen that in Mando or OWK.

Oh I think they have run away with the idea that Storm trooper are stupid, but its been a long standing tradition in the SW community that they ARE stupid AND incompetent without the extra technology that helps them. They are just exploiting that common knowledge.

Its been a joke since Obi utter the line “ Only imperial stormtroopers are so precise” They an entire trilogy where the miss all the time, unless aided by massive weapons and technonogly.

They were taken out by dwarf bears using sticks and rocks. Thats the OT!

The only time Stormies are dangerous is if they are an elite arm (death troopers) or if they are using heavy weapons. Other than that, a blind guy, a kid who's never fired a blaster before, a door, bears, trees and rocks do just fine against them.

I believe the anology that they are only dangerous in large numbers , or behind technology is well founded in the OT and through Disney media.

 

[TaliBane]

Bucketheads have literally always been a mess….

if you count all the shots in all the trilogys and the hits they make, the accuaracy is less than 1%.

A few humorous bits aside, the dumbing down of stormtroopers only really began in ROTJ where the tone of SW began to shift. But beyond the obvious (in a gunfight with heroes, heroes can't get shot and die) ANH, ESB and part of ROTJ the Empire is more than competent - they are ruthless winners.

In the OT, soldiers of Empire:

- brutally muscle their way onto the Tantive IV, either killing or marching away humiliated all rebels, then actually shoot Leia to take her before Vader.
- Tortured both Leia and Han, and to a lesser degree Chewie
- blasted 3PO apart without hesitation
- mercilessly won the battle of Hoth
- literally fried Beru and Owen
- froze Han (uncertain if he would live) while forcing his friends to watch
- massacred Jawas just for selling the droids and even covered it up
- wiped out an entire planet with a superweapon... just as a demo, really just for the hell of it
- kill rebel pilots one after another in the battle of Yavin (and if not for the force would have won)

This is just a sampling. They are merciless, very competent and successful - and NONE of this stuff would be allowed to happen in a Disney show. Even where there are occasional small moments of weakness or silliness in the OT (Ben's mind trick, Han chasing the stormies) it is overwhelmingly balanced out.

Even in the worst of ROTJ, the many moments of weakness/ineptitude are to some degree balanced out by stuff like the speeder bike chase, and the sheer evil competency of the Emperor - plus also the shadow of everything we had seen from the Empire in ANH and ESB.

 

[Kebron]

In the OT, soldiers of Empire:

- brutally muscle their way onto the Tantive IV, either killing or marching away humiliated all rebels, then actually shoot Leia to take her before Vader.
- Tortured both Leia and Han, and to a lesser degree Chewie
- blasted 3PO apart without hesitation
- mercilessly won the battle of Hoth
- literally fried Beru and Owen
- froze Han (uncertain if he would live) while forcing his friends to watch
- massacred Jawas just for selling the droids and even covered it up
- wiped out an entire planet with a superweapon... just as a demo, really just for the hell of it
- kill rebel pilots one after another in the battle of Yavin (and if not for the force would have won)

This is just a sampling. They are merciless, very competent and successful - and NONE of this stuff would be allowed to happen in a Disney show. Even where there are occasional small moments of weakness or silliness in the OT (Ben's mind trick, Han chasing the stormies) it is overwhelmingly balanced out.

Even in the worst of ROTJ, the many moments of weakness/ineptitude are to some degree balanced out by stuff like the speeder bike chase, and the sheer evil competency of the Emperor - plus also the shadow of everything we had seen from the Empire in ANH and ESB.

It's not like Disney Star Wars has been showing the Empire in kinder gentler light.

Some things we've seen in Disney Star Wars. Dead Jedi bodies used as bait, genocide of a species a couple, cutting off citizen body parts in public, kidnapping kids from parents and turning them into sociopaths or just killing them, setting houses on fire with people inside, slaughtering Rebel soldiers after disarming them, and dragging people through streets and snapping necks as examples of what soldiers of the Empire do from the Disney Star Wars.

 

[TaliBane]

It's not like Disney Star Wars has been showing the Empire in kinder gentler light.

Some things we've seen in Disney Star Wars. Dead Jedi bodies used as bait, genocide of a species a couple, cutting off citizen body parts in public, kidnapping kids from parents and turning them into sociopaths or just killing them, setting houses on fire with people inside, slaughtering Rebel soldiers after disarming them, and dragging people through streets and snapping necks as examples of what soldiers of the Empire do from the Disney Star Wars.

Most of that is Vader or Reva (and who knows wtf that wax works of Jedis was meant to be) - I mean there's a ton of stuff I could have listed for Vader and Palps - as main bad guys - in the OT.

I'm talking about the usual depiction of Imperial soldiers in the Disney+ series as completely inept, ineffectual and mundane.

And I'm not quite sure what some of your list is referring to - "kidnapping kids" like Leia, or Reva Jr.?

And to be VERY clear here, Mos Eisley Karen is still in the top five funniest moments in all of SW history.

 

[Kebron]

Most of that is Vader or Reva (and who knows wtf that wax works of Jedis was meant to be) - I mean there's a ton of stuff I could have listed for Vader and Palps - as main bad guys - in the OT.

I'm talking about the usual depiction of Imperial soldiers in the Disney+ series as completely inept, ineffectual and mundane.

And I'm not quite sure what some of your list is referring to - "kidnapping kids" like Leia, or Reva Jr.?

And to be VERY clear here, Mos Eisley Karen is still in the top five funniest moments in all of SW history.

Some of your list was also attributed to Vader, or even people that were not Empire. But more to the point Vader and Reva are both soldiers of the Empire, thus they count.

There is also more that I could list.

The dead Jedi, and kidnapping kids is from Rebels.

Point still stands Disney Empire has been shown to be as evil as OT. One could argue even more.

 

[Khev]

Mos Eisley Karen.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Mos Eisley Karen.

I would definitely buy the TVC if that was printed on card.

 

[ZE_501]

Some of your list was also attributed to Vader, or even people that were not Empire. But more to the point Vader and Reva are both soldiers of the Empire, thus they count.

Weeeeeellll....neither of them are actually 'soldiers' per se. Agents, minions, henchpeople ... this discussion has been going for a while, regarding the comic relief rank and file soldiers of the Empire have been reduced to.

Stormtroopers get beat up with sticks, can't shoot (anyone) at point blank range, get ... umm ... facepalmed? Not even sure what to call it ... etc. etc. etc.

This is not new but it has reached truly goofball levels as of late.

 

[Kebron]

Weeeeeellll....neither of them are actually 'soldiers' per se. Agents, minions, henchpeople ... this discussion has been going for a while, regarding the comic relief rank and file soldiers of the Empire have been reduced to.

Stormtroopers get beat up with sticks, can't shoot (anyone) at point blank range, get ... umm ... facepalmed? Not even sure what to call it ... etc. etc. etc.

This is not new but it has reached truly goofball levels as of late.

And I don’t disagree with any of that. I’ll just say that the OT set the stage for it to happen.

Reference Vader and Reva. I took his “soldiers of the Empire” to mean the whole Empire. Especially considering some of his examples were specifically done by Vader, or commanded by higher ups, or in one example was done by Ugnauts on order from Vader.

 

[Khev]

This not new but it has reached truly goofball levels as of late.

That's the thing isn't it. If it was at least comparable to the OT (preferably SW/ESB) that'd be one thing. But compare the opening of ANH where the Stormies charge through the small door on Leia's ship and immediately blow away seven Rebel troops to the OWK show where that giant garage door opens and about *200* Stormtroopers open fire on like nine Rebel electricians and plumbers and after about two straight minutes of fire finally take out one of them???

What the hell, lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

So from OWK to ANH, they did get better.

 

[TaliBane]

Weeeeeellll....neither of them are actually 'soldiers' per se. Agents, minions, henchpeople ... this discussion has been going for a while, regarding the comic relief rank and file soldiers of the Empire have been reduced to.

Stormtroopers get beat up with sticks, can't shoot (anyone) at point blank range, get ... umm ... facepalmed? Not even sure what to call it ... etc. etc. etc.

This is not new but it has reached truly goofball levels as of late.

Yeah the discussion is about stormtroopers and Imperial soldiers (what they themselves are seen to do and what they do under orders.)

On the other hand, Vader on Disney+ is a bizarre hyper-supernatural psycho - levitating anyone who gives him a sideways glance, yankimg spaceships from the sky and tearing them apart with his mind, snapping necks of a stadium full of people... simultaneously! Like fan service as supersized main meal, not side dish.

And Reva? Literally ALL they gave her was frowns, rage and lightsabering everything down to her lunch. There's nothing more to her.

And you'd cite this garbage as evidence against the reality that in scene after scene on Disney+, stormies and other imperials are killed with a light slap or karate chop and without so much as scratch inflcited on any opposing hero or helper? It's just moronic.

Oh but Reva chopped off Mos Eisley Karen's hand so "imperial forces" is just sooo badass on Disney+!

 

[a-dev]

That's the thing isn't it. If it was at least comparable to the OT (preferably SW/ESB) that'd be one thing. But compare the opening of ANH where the Stormies charge through the small door on Leia's ship and immediately blow away seven Rebel troops to the OWK show where that giant garage door opens and about *200* Stormtroopers open fire on like nine Rebel electricians and plumbers and after about two straight minutes of fire finally take out one of them???

How unlucky do you have to be to be the guy who gets killed by a Disney Stormtrooper? And on the other side of the coin that particular Stormtrooper probably gets taken aside for special commendation like R2-D2 in TPM. His armour gets a damn good cleaning.

 

[Kebron]

Yeah the discussion is about stormtroopers and Imperial soldiers (what they themselves are seen to do and what they do under orders.)

On the other hand, Vader on Disney+ is a bizarre hyper-supernatural psycho - levitating anyone who gives him a sideways glance, yankimg spaceships from the sky and tearing them apart with his mind, snapping necks of a stadium full of people... simultaneously! Like fan service as supersized main meal, not side dish.

And Reva? Literally ALL they gave her was frowns, rage and lightsabering everything down to her lunch. There's nothing more to her.

And you'd cite this garbage as evidence against the reality that in scene after scene on Disney+, stormies and other imperials are killed with a light slap or karate chop and without so much as scratch inflcited on any opposing hero or helper? It's just moronic.

Oh but Reva chopped off Mos Eisley Karen's hand so "imperial forces" is just sooo badass on Disney+!

Hmmm about Imperials soldiers and stormtroopers yet you cited actions by Vader, Moffs, and civilians as examples of the Stortroopers being evil and competent.

You also ignore my other examples and seem to focus on one of Reva which show the Disney era Empire being just as evil as OT.

Seems you are less inclined to actually debate and discuss and only wish to further push your own narrative. Typical.