Star Wars: Andor (April 22, 2025)

[slynger]

And Leia and Artoo getting shot are the only times in the OT that main characters get hit by blasters (not counting ANH Artoo's X-Wing damage).

Luke took a laser blast to his robot hand in ROTJ. Robotic or not, he still moaned about it.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I stand corrected and thank you both. Forgot about Threepio being blasted to bits, and Jabba thugs dinging Luke. I'm going to my SW timeout corner now. D'oh!

 

[ScoutingForToys]

I think stormtroopers (not to mention scout troopers in Mando) being portrayed on D+ as a total....

Also with regard to Endor people like to say that "the Empire got defeated by teddy bears" but that really isn't accurate...

Cracking posts from both of you, completely agree with your points.
Plus it's nice to be on the same side with Khev on a Star Wars debate for once

Reducing the Empire to utter incompetence destroys any tension or stakes. How can we cheer on our hero's when they're battling against such slap stick foolish villains.
What is a victory worth over the Disney version of the Empire?

And yes, I too find it frustrating when people justify Stormies being defeated with a slap or Scouts missing their shots from 5 feet away or 100 Stormies all shooting at 10 Rebels and only hitting 2 because the OT had them lose the Endor battle, or they failed to gun down the 3 main characters during ANH.

 

[Khev]

Cracking posts from both of you, completely agree with your points.
Plus it's nice to be on the same side with Khev on a Star Wars debate for once

I know right!

Reducing the Empire to utter incompetence destroys any tension or stakes. How can we cheer on our hero's when they're battling against such slap stick foolish villains.
What is a victory worth over the Disney version of the Empire?

And yes, I too find it frustrating when people justify Stormies being defeated with a slap or Scouts missing their shots from 5 feet away or 100 Stormies all shooting at 10 Rebels and only hitting 2 because the OT had them lose the Endor battle, or they failed to gun down the 3 main characters during ANH.

Yeah why do you even need main characters on OWK when Frumpy and Dumpy the civilian speeder drivers (that inexplicably pilot craft with giant front mounted cannons) can just appear out of thin air at key Imperial bases and wreak all kinds of havoc on leaders and troops alike.

If Top Gun Maverick was a Disney+ show: "We can't take out the enemy bunker with F-18's, we only use those for hauling sewage!" Then two utility workers who went through none of Maverick's rigorous training for that one specific mission take it upon themselves to try it anyway...and succeed.

 

[xipotec]

- Tortured both Leia and Han, and to a lesser degree Chewie

This was Vader, and its not skilled to torture a bound prisoner

- blasted 3PO apart without hesitation
Yea , blasted an unarmed driod 3 feet away…..skillfull for sure

- mercilessly won the battle of Hoth

again, this was the ATAT’s over powering technology, not base trooper skills, in fact, the base snow troopers got cut down by the falcon…

- literally fried Beru and Owen

again, unarmed old old people ? Hardly skillful.

- froze Han (uncertain if he would live) while forcing his friends to watch

Yeah, they were just guards, if anyone is reaponsible for Han , its Vader. His idea , he commands it.

- massacred Jawas just for selling the droids and even covered it up
again,

killing Jawas is not exactly skillful…see mado do it a bunch also….

- wiped out an entire planet with a superweapon... just as a demo, really just for the hell of it

Are you seriously suggesting the Stormtroopers were the ones doing this?

- kill rebel pilots one after another in the battle of Yavin (and if not for the force would have won)

Totally out numbered in better ships….

I stand by my statement, Troopers are NOT skilled, they are cannon fodder and only succeed with overwhelming force and technology on their side.

Evil yea, stupid is evil most of the time, but being evil was never my argument.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Today, Luke would have force-held Jabba's entire sail barge and shaken the giant slug out and right into the Sarlacc.

 

[Khev]

Today, Luke would have force-held Jabba's entire sail barge and shaken the giant slug out and right into the Sarlacc.

And when they rescued Leia from the Death Star they would have just guided Leia out of the Detention Center while she covered her eyes with her hands (thus rendering her totally invisible to all Imperials). When they arrive at the hangar Porkins shows up in his X-Wing, flies into the hangar where he hovers and systematically blasts at Vader and all the Troopers putting them in total disarray. He then lands and opens a massive hatch on the back of his X-Wing where Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, the Droids and the Millenium Falcon all squeeze in so that they can make their escape. The Empire sends no TIE Fighters to pursue but R2's main eye glows a sinister red (that no one pays any heed to.)

 

[Wor-Gar]

Of course, Ben would never have died because he was never there -- Force projection.

Hey wait a minute? I always thought Ben ''died'' oddly... He may still be around.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

I know right!

Yeah why do you even need main characters on OWK when Frumpy and Dumpy the civilian speeder drivers (that inexplicably pilot craft with giant front mounted cannons) can just appear out of thin air at key Imperial bases and wreak all kinds of havoc on leaders and troops alike.

If Top Gun Maverick was a Disney+ show: "We can't take out the enemy bunker with F-18's, we only use those for hauling sewage!" Then two utility workers who went through none of Maverick's rigorous training for that one specific mission take it upon themselves to try it anyway...and succeed.

Very true.
I can accept Stormies failing against hero characters. ESB would ended on a very different note if Leia and Chewie had been shot dead by Stormies.
Stormies, depending on the film/show usual have decent showings against nameless Rebels. Or at least come off as a threat.
Hard to accept though, that 2 noobs hop in air speeders and stage a successful extraction from one of the Empires most secure (ahem "secure") installations in the Empire.
One of the things that bugged me about OWK was the complete lack of TIEs.
2 or 3 situations when TIEs would have easily won the day for the Empire but no, the Empire is astonishingly inept in D+ Star Wars.
They certainly could have sorted out utility workers in air speeders.

 

[slynger]

I stand corrected and thank you both. Forgot about Threepio being blasted to bits, and Jabba thugs dinging Luke. I'm going to my SW timeout corner now. D'oh!

And you sit there and think about the gravity of your mistakes. You should know better.

 

[xipotec]

I actually do not have a problem with huge displays of the force.

I think its been cannon since ESB that incredible feats have been accomplished by the jedi with the force.

I think it comes at a price. The more you exert yourself , the longer the recovery, and there is only so much anyone user can do at once. The more powerful jedi can do alot, but not indefinitely. Add enhanced emotion and its possible to do more, which is why the Sith can channel rage into great power.

Seeing Yoda move the xwing established early on shows move ships is possible. Yoda is older yet even with his power he is visibly tired after the effort…

So I see no issue with short huge displays of power from the chosen one.

After all look at Palps throwing arouns senate seats like frisbees, he was clearly not even slightly bothered by that….and that mass was pretty big combined.

So Vader stopping a ship in his revenge fueled anger, is totally acceptable.

 

[Kebron]

Great post ajp.

Also with regard to Endor people like to say that "the Empire got defeated by teddy bears" but that really isn't accurate. The Rebels were being routed and the efforts of the ewoks themselves were shown to be entirely ineffective (beyond their initial surprise appearance which allowed the captured heroes to scatter) until Chewie stole a Scout Walker and turned the tide. So once again if you take the main characters out of the equation the Empire was winning when you just look at grunts vs. grunts.

No Chewie, no victory on Endor. No victory on Endor, the shields stay up and Ackbar's fleet gets wiped up, Death Star remains.

Compared to OWK where random sewage speeder drivers outsmart the main Imperial Inquisitor villain and all of her forces, lol.

So if we take the heroes out of the equation for the OWK scene in the hanger then the Empire is shown being competent cause it was OWK that was killing most of those Troopers

- Tortured both Leia and Han, and to a lesser degree Chewie

This was Vader, and its not skilled to torture a bound prisoner

- blasted 3PO apart without hesitation
Yea , blasted an unarmed driod 3 feet away…..skillfull for sure

- mercilessly won the battle of Hoth

again, this was the ATAT’s over powering technology, not base trooper skills, in fact, the base snow troopers got cut down by the falcon…

- literally fried Beru and Owen

again, unarmed old old people ? Hardly skillful.

- froze Han (uncertain if he would live) while forcing his friends to watch

Yeah, they were just guards, if anyone is reaponsible for Han , its Vader. His idea , he commands it.

- massacred Jawas just for selling the droids and even covered it up
again,

killing Jawas is not exactly skillful…see mado do it a bunch also….

- wiped out an entire planet with a superweapon... just as a demo, really just for the hell of it

Are you seriously suggesting the Stormtroopers were the ones doing this?

- kill rebel pilots one after another in the battle of Yavin (and if not for the force would have won)

Totally out numbered in better ships….

I stand by my statement, Troopers are NOT skilled, they are cannon fodder and only succeed with overwhelming force and technology on their side.

Evil yea, stupid is evil most of the time, but being evil was never my argument.

At least someone else around here is talking sense and can see through their nostalgia blinders.

 

[Khev]

Very true.
I can accept Stormies failing against hero characters. ESB would ended on a very different note if Leia and Chewie had been shot dead by Stormies.
Stormies, depending on the film/show usual have decent showings against nameless Rebels. Or at least come off as a threat.
Hard to accept though, that 2 noobs hop in air speeders and stage a successful extraction from one of the Empires most secure (ahem "secure") installations in the Empire.
One of the things that bugged me about OWK was the complete lack of TIEs.
2 or 3 situations when TIEs would have easily won the day for the Empire but no, the Empire is astonishingly inept in D+ Star Wars.
They certainly could have sorted out utility workers in air speeders.

Yeah, and even though I like TLJ I do find it annoying that no one in Snoke's fleet thought to send out a fleet of TIE Bombers to wipe out Leia's ship so that's another scenario where some TIE's could have easily resolved things for the bad guys.

 

[Khev]

Of course, Ben would never have died because he was never there -- Force projection.

Hey wait a minute? I always thought Ben ''died'' oddly... He may still be around.

Deleted TLJ scene:

"I was always here, Luke. You just were not ready to see. Come on, we’ve got a ways to go."

Luke:

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

While on the subject of incompetence let's have a look at the man of the hour Cassian, who is supposed to be an "expert" spy.

Now excuse me while I don my disguise and go infiltrate the Pentagon.

 

[jye4ever]

Naru is more ruthless than a modern stormtrooper.

 

[a-dev]

Naru is more ruthless than a modern stormtrooper.

 

[ZE_501]

Plus it's nice to be on the same side with Khev on a Star Wars debate for once

It always weirds me out when that happens.

I know right!

Super weird.

Back to the subject at hand, even Rogue One was inconsistent. A large group of stormtroopers were taken out by a guy with a stick.

A stick.

Even if your Kung Fu (Teras Kasi?) is *pretty good* ... that's a bit much.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

It always weirds me out when that happens.


Super weird.

Back to the subject at hand, even Rogue One was inconsistent. A large group of stormtroopers were taken out by a guy with a stick.

A stick.

Even if your Kung Fu (Teras Kasi?) is *pretty good* ... that's a bit much.

That guy was blind too by the way! Or am I not allowed to bring that up in 2022?

 

[ZE_501]

That guy was blind too by the way! Or am I not allowed to bring that up in 2022?

He gets a pass for blind-fighting, it's a martial arts trope not out of place in Star Wars, it's the idea of a wooden stick being effective against armour that bugs me.