Star Wars: Andor (April 22, 2025)

[Darthrazz]

Honestly, I don't think they'd do a cheap-feeling story element like this, but it does raise the question of how they're going to maintain the sort of momentum they've built up from the previous episode. I don't expect it to be action-packed or anything, but I am so curious on how everything will play out now after that climax.

I think that the Empire will lash out hence the

Spoiler

meeting about retaliation. We were shown the human side of the Empire, the engineer trying to save the kid, now I think we will see the evil side of the Empire. I think innocent lives will pay for this heist.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Where Lucas' Star Wars was pure black and white, Gilroy's Star Wars is very grey. I'm not sure we'll ever see a purely evil Empire nor a purely heroic Rebellion. Andor himself is about as grey as you can get.

 

[Nagoya]

Where Lucas' Star Wars was pure black and white, Gilroy's Star Wars is very grey.

That's mostly true but....

1. Luke being more of the "grey" Jedi throughout the OT
2. Han's first impression to the audience being shooting some poor guy only for him to be one of the most beloved heroic deuterogonist albeit his ambiguous morals
3. Vader, of course, being at the center of the whole conflict between light and dark thing
4. And lastly, the hilarious irony that Jar Jar is the most evil thing that came from the PT when he was supposed to be comic relief (okay, and also the entire Jedi Order becoming blinded by politics darkness, but Jar Jar honestly left a much bigger (worse) impression)

I don't think Lucas's Star Wars was necessarily completely black and white. Certainly not anywhere near as interesting as the humanization we're getting with Andor, though.

 

[Prime Clone]

I agree there are shades of grey on both sides, but the Imperial base commander was quite Trumplike referring to the "s***hole" planet.

Also, Marvel Comics were depicting moral ambiguity as far back as 1980...

 

[Nagoya]

I must have missed the whole comic arc where Luke turns into He-Man...
Just look at those cheekbones!

 

[Prime Clone]

I must have missed the whole comic arc where Luke turns into He-Man...
Just look at those cheekbones!

Then came the action figures!

 

[Prime Clone]

Whoever said the native inhabitants of the planet should have been alien, I agree. But it's the only (minor) complaint I have.

 

[Rotfish]

Anyone else think the elder Dhani in the latest episode looks like an older Bryan Cranston?

 

[Wor-Gar]

Wait -- when was Luke grey in the OT?

 

[MyenShi]

Whoever said the native inhabitants of the planet should have been alien, I agree. But it's the only (minor) complaint I have.

I’m split on it. It would’ve been nice to see more aliens. But I also think the shot of the Aldhani and the Imperial grunts united in looking at the phenomenon in awe together peacefully had more impact with all actor faces visible instead of alien costumes and prosthetics.

 

[TheBatman]

I think they chose humans with British accents to spite some people. Though you can have an alien with a British accent I guess.

 

[Nagoya]

Wait -- when was Luke grey in the OT?

Throughout the 3 movies the colour of his outfit changes from stark white to black indicating where he is on the good/evil spectrum. During his training with Yoda (who arguably is training him just to be a hit man on Vader) and the Bespin scenes he wears more neutral colours due to him being at his lowest point and feeling the pull to the dark side, apparently.
He force chokes the Gamorrean guard of course at the start of 6, but I’m not sure if that has particularly been debated about whether it is strictly a dark side force power before video games popularised it more as being as such.
The collar on his robes pops open during the final Vader duel, revealing he’s either still split between the light and dark sides, or he’s been light all along. Either way it ultimately ends, the theme is there that he is constantly transitioning between black and white through the movies.

 

[ZE_501]

Honestly, I don't think they'd do a cheap-feeling story element like this, but it does raise the question of how they're going to maintain the sort of momentum they've built up from the previous episode. I don't expect it to be action-packed or anything, but I am so curious on how everything will play out now after that climax.

Retaliation. They really kicked the hornet's nest and some of these Imperials are far from stupid. The show has already shown there are *consequences* in this version of Star Wars, and I don't think Luthen is done with Cassian, and neither is that young man's manifesto.

True like with Solo, the threat was there. If Andor hadn't taken that deal, Skeen would have shot him first, to now keep the betrayal secret. Andor had to act, or likely be killed at that moment he refused.

I think Andor worked out that Skeen was going to try to kill him either way at this point, and needed to act.

Although Solo was somewhat neutered lost his edge, We know at the other extreme Andor loses his humanity to his - shoot first figure it out later - more realistic, un-romanticised, and ruthless surviver edge, well into the start of R1.

I've thought a lot now about what it took for him to decide not to shoot Jyn's father. It has more significance now.

Especially since Skeen was persistent that they go to that planet with the doctor pit stop.

He didn’t care about the guy he cared about his ulterior motive and was given that opportunity when the guy got crushed.

Or…..

Skeen set it up for him to get crushed in the first place!

I think Skeen was an opportunist. He worked out the possibilities of a quiet place, reduced manpower and a wounded soldier. He didn't plan it but he definitely improvised -- and like many characters in this, he's complicated. Maybe he *did* want to save the kid and *also* get rich in the process.

I’m split on it. It would’ve been nice to see more aliens. But I also think the shot of the Aldhani and the Imperial grunts united in looking at the phenomenon in awe together peacefully had more impact with all actor faces visible instead of alien costumes and prosthetics.

I do think the human faces were more expressive, a point in their favour other than also being cheaper.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Throughout the 3 movies the colour of his outfit changes from stark white to black indicating where he is on the good/evil spectrum. During his training with Yoda (who arguably is training him just to be a hit man on Vader) and the Bespin scenes he wears more neutral colours due to him being at his lowest point and feeling the pull to the dark side, apparently.
He force chokes the Gamorrean guard of course at the start of 6, but I’m not sure if that has particularly been debated about whether it is strictly a dark side force power before video games popularised it more as being as such.
The collar on his robes pops open during the final Vader duel, revealing he’s either still split between the light and dark sides, or he’s been light all along. Either way it ultimately ends, the theme is there that he is constantly transitioning between black and white through the movies.

So you're calling his character gray because his clothing is gray? Bespin duds are actually more tan than gray, but still.

So, going by that, Luke should be evil since he ends up in black at the end.


When I hear about "gray Jedi" I can't help but think about that member we used to have around here who traveled across oceans of time. Do you know of whom I speak?

 

[Nagoya]

So you're calling his character gray because his clothing is gray? Bespin duds are actually more tan than gray, but still.

So, going by that, Luke should be evil since he ends up in black at the end.

Luke's clothing choices and the symbolism behind them is a topic that I see discussed often (1, 2) and randomly noted by crappy website articles, where the idea of him wearing black by RotJ apparently comes from the original ending where Luke was going to become evil after Han died, or something. Idk if there has ever been an official source though, but I think it's worth pointing out regardless so say of it as you will. Anyway, there are other points to be made that Lucas's Star Wars wasn't as purely black and white as some might say.

Sorry to derail the topic though... can't wait until next Tuesday

 

[Prime Clone]

^ Interesting speculation, though Mark Hamill has said George told him during the filming of ROTJ that the black outfit was was what the Jedi actually wore.

And then TPM concept art shows the Jedi in black, though the design seemed to end up on Maul instead.

Of course they ultimately went with "Tatooine old man chic" for the Jedi robes, even though Anakin wore something closer to Maul/Jedi Luke.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Luke's clothing choices and the symbolism behind them is a topic that I see discussed often (1, 2) and randomly noted by crappy website articles, where the idea of him wearing black by RotJ apparently comes from the original ending where Luke was going to become evil after Han died, or something. Idk if there has ever been an official source though, but I think it's worth pointing out regardless so say of it as you will. Anyway, there are other points to be made that Lucas's Star Wars wasn't as purely black and white as some might say.

Sorry to derail the topic though... can't wait until next Tuesday

But that's exactly what was refreshing in 1977 about Star Wars -- the villains wore black, the heroes wore white and the story was simple. That was very un-70's at the time, when almost everything was complex gray at the time. Lucas preached that this was his gift to children -- they don't make fairy tales anymore; his epic poem was to pass on the morals of the day to children in simple old-fashioned storytelling. It was, by Lucas' own admission, anything but "gray".

I totally get the white-gray-black transition of Luke's character and of course noticed it immediately in its day... and I have since read so many analysis ascribed to it that I've lost understanding of what it all actually means over the last 40 years plus.

Of course, we all know how Lucas has retconned so much of his work and so much of his own record. There's been no end of analysis of Star Wars even since it first began. That is its great success at heart -- so broad and so simple, it can fit any religion, any belief system.

^ Interesting speculation, though Mark Hamill has said George told him during the filming of ROTJ that the black outfit was was what the Jedi actually wore.

See what I mean about the "truth" behind most of Lucas' symbolism... it serves whatever he needs it to serve at any given moment. Well, now it serves Disney.

I also heard at the time (1983) that Luke wears black because that is his father's color.

 

[Nagoya]

And then TPM concept art shows the Jedi in black, though the design seemed to end up on Maul instead.

That's true, and there's the irony that Stormtroopers still wore all white.
Here is that concept art you mentioned:

They even released an Obi Wan figure of him donning similar look:

Even as far back as 1979, Obi Wan appeared in a Marvel comic "Silent Drifting" where he looked like this!:

I totally get the white-gray-black transition of Luke's character and of course noticed it immediately in its day... and I have since read so many analysis ascribed to it that I've lost understanding of what it all actually means over the last 40 years plus.

Of course, we all know how Lucas has retconned so much of his work and so much of his own record. There's been no end of analysis of Star Wars even since it first began. That is its great success at heart -- so broad and so simple, it can fit any religion, any belief system.

And this is completely fair. Great points!

 

[6thScaleFan]

Throughout the 3 movies the colour of his outfit changes from stark white to black indicating where he is on the good/evil spectrum. During his training with Yoda (who arguably is training him just to be a hit man on Vader) and the Bespin scenes he wears more neutral colours due to him being at his lowest point and feeling the pull to the dark side, apparently.
He force chokes the Gamorrean guard of course at the start of 6, but I’m not sure if that has particularly been debated about whether it is strictly a dark side force power before video games popularised it more as being as such.
The collar on his robes pops open during the final Vader duel, revealing he’s either still split between the light and dark sides, or he’s been light all along. Either way it ultimately ends, the theme is there that he is constantly transitioning between black and white through the movies.

I always thought that's why the inside of Luke's tunic was revealed to be white, at the end of the film. Showing that even though he appeared to be leaning towards darkness, inside, he was still on the light side of the Force. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

 

[chrisstbh]

The Eye scene just never gets old, rewatched it so many times now.