Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[loki2371]

Nope. Only the ST haters need to state the opinions of others in vain attempts to somehow validate their own personal opinions as being "correct." Most of you have absolutely zero confidence in the weight of your own opinions which is why you're are always so ecstatic whenever someone prominent steps out and speaks for you.

But if I can reject the opinions of GEORGE LUCAS regarding the merit of the original theatrical OT (which he hates) do you think I'm gonna give two ***** what Marcia thinks? Please.

Grow a pair and let your opinions stand on their own two feet without pretending that they're anything but subjective. Then I'll respect them.

I haven't posted a thing in this thread in forever. I was merely commenting on the endless debate over the ST and how Marcia Lucas' comments have spurned a resurgence. Where did I say I agreed with her or that her voice should have merit? I merely commented on how each side always defends themselves when anything new "comes of light".

Frankly I could care less anymore. Like what you like. This has gotten so old.

You wanna love the ST, have at it. You wanna hate the ST, great.

I didn't reference anything you personally said...

Yet you seem to have some hate coming my way...

Marcia, Marcia, Marcia..... The new Martha... "Why'd You Say That Name!!!!!"

 

[Khev]

Yet you seem to have some hate coming my way...

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. Interpreting disagreements as "hate." No loki, nobody hates you and I even proved it with my little icon at the end, lol.

 

[loki2371]

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. Interpreting disagreements as "hate." No loki, nobody hates you and I even proved it with my little icon at the end, lol.

Well, I threw in the for some comic relief (as in a joke)...

Last time I checked the phrase "grow a pair" is meant to be an insult, no?

Whatever. The loudest voice will always try to dominate the room. Have at it...

...

 

[Bleah]

I am assuming Ducky will re-emerge any moment now...

 

[punisher1974]

So perfectly said my friend. We all used to be able to say "hey these are the movies I like, these I love, these I hate, these are my guilty pleasures, mixed bags, etc." while interacting with people who respectfully agree or disagree. But the current culture perfectly illustrated in the last few pages requires that it be all about who is "discredited" or angry or miserable. "Oh you're just mad because..." Why would I be miserable about the ST, I'm one of the few who actually enjoys them.

The PT pissed me off in so many ways but I'll never fault anyone for liking or loving them or turning a blind eye to their faults and I'll often even make efforts myself to focus on their positive aspects. Not so with the current culture that is desperate for validation and the need to get more "likes" than the person whose opinion you disagree with.

I know that you, a-dev, and many others have super valid reasons for disliking the ST and rejecting them from canon and I totally respect your opinions. Same with Prime Clone and ajp both of whom I believe only like one or two ST films. I don't need any of you to conform or somehow be wrong in order to be secure in my own preferences especially when there's so many other films that we *do* agree on.

Very much agree with the sentiment. We are all geeks on this site and there are alot of things to bring us together and alot of things that we all disagree on. I love so many movies and shows from so many genres and alot of classic comic storys. Captain America, Punisher, Hulk, Batman and Spider-Man are my faves and I am glad to have had some great movies to watch. Some are guilty pleasures like Lundgren Punisher but that's ok to me and I would never want to change anyones mind. Favorite movie will always be Raiders I bet but there are so many great movies to geek on.

 

[aussiebottt]

Where's JAWS in all this discussion? He normally has some good points to offer.

 

[Khev]

Very much agree with the sentiment. We are all geeks on this site and there are alot of things to bring us together and alot of things that we all disagree on. I love so many movies and shows from so many genres and alot of classic comic storys. Captain America, Punisher, Hulk, Batman and Spider-Man are my faves and I am glad to have had some great movies to watch. Some are guilty pleasures like Lundgren Punisher but that's ok to me and I would never want to change anyones mind. Favorite movie will always be Raiders I bet but there are so many great movies to geek on.

Do you also collect the comics for any or all of those characters?

And I've never actually seen the Lundgren Punisher but his Masters of the Universe film is definitely a guilty pleasure of mine so I bet it'd be fun to see his take on Frank Castle.

 

[punisher1974]

I used to collect some of the comics but Marvel Civil War was the last comic I actually bought and that was in 2006. I do buy the Marvel Essentials of Punisher, Spider-Man, Captain America and a few others since they reprint past comics with around 20 to 25 issues in them. The last Captain America Volume to come reprinted the Walker Cap storyline. Lundgren Punisher is very 80's cheese without the skull outfit. Some decent action though. Masters of the Universe is a guilty pleasure. Langella was a great Skeletor.

 

[Khev]

Yeah I consider the final issues of Captain America Vol. 4 (issues 29-32 by Robert Kirkman of all people) that were released in 2004 to be the final chapter in the story of the Cap that Stan Lee brought out of the ice in 1964. He defeats the Serpent Society and Red Skull one last time and lives happily ever after with Diamondback. Done. Perfect ending to an even 40 year run IMO.

Ed Brubaker rebooted both his origin and his overall character in 2005 which then led into Civil War, him getting "killed," and then Bucky Cap, Falcon Cap, HYDRA Cap, and then the white guilt apology tour that began 3-4 years ago and continues to this day. I dismiss it all and don't own anything past 2004 like I indicated earlier but do recognize that Brubaker's Winter Soldier stuff was decently written. I still found the superior serious "noir" atmosphere and art to be totally wrong for the character, nor do I approve of resurrecting Bucky, but it led to great things in the MCU which is cool at least.

 

[punisher1974]

Yep I like the old Dematteis with Zeck and the Gruenwald runs to be the best overall for him. Brubaker's run was decent but almost more suited for Batman. I do like the Epic collections because I will have the original run of comics in trade format when they finish up.

 

[Khev]

Yep totally agree on those runs. I also love the short stints by Jim Steranko and Roger Stern/John Byrne and of course Sal Buscema.

Steranko's art in particular was just so dynamic plus he created Madame Hydra/Viper. It's also awesome that the guy who designed the look of Indiana Jones himself contributed to Captain America as well, lol.

I know people laugh at some of the goofy stuff that came in the 90's like Cap Wolf, Rob Liefeld, and that armored suit he wore for a time but overall so many great writers and artists contributed to one hell of a 40 year run.

It's fun to go through the Golden Age stuff from a historical perspective and some of the issues are still good reads but I pretty much consider that to be a different version of the character just like with Brubaker.

 

[punisher1974]

Cap Wolf is a guilty pleasure of mine. 90's had some really different storylines for sure. Almost like a dark version of the 60's. Steranko was a great artist. His Nick Fury stuff was good to. I have the old Raiders of the lost ark game with Steranko art on the box. Was always a nice set of design art he did.

 

[GhostBeard]

Yeah I consider the final issues of Captain America Vol. 4 (issues 29-32 by Robert Kirkman of all people) that were released in 2004 to be the final chapter in the story of the Cap that Stan Lee brought out of the ice in 1964. He defeats the Serpent Society and Red Skull one last time and lives happily ever after with Diamondback. Done. Perfect ending to an even 40 year run IMO.

Ed Brubaker rebooted both his origin and his overall character in 2005 which then led into Civil War, him getting "killed," and then Bucky Cap, Falcon Cap, HYDRA Cap, and then the white guilt apology tour that began 3-4 years ago and continues to this day. I dismiss it all and don't own anything past 2004 like I indicated earlier but do recognize that Brubaker's Winter Soldier stuff was decently written. I still found the superior serious "noir" atmosphere and art to be totally wrong for the character, nor do I approve of resurrecting Bucky, but it led to great things in the MCU which is cool at least.

Completely agree with all this, but getting anyone else to understand is almost impossible.

 

[Khev]

Completely agree with all this, but getting anyone else to understand is almost impossible.

Yeah, Brubaker was very open about not being much of a Steve Rogers fan compared to Bucky which immediately makes clear the context for his entire Winter Soldier/Bucky Cap storyline. The problem is I don't want a Cap story, no matter how well written, from a guy who doesn't actually like the character and only wants to replace him with someone else.

But then the new powers that be at Marvel had to double down and spend the next 15 years handing Steve Rogers over to authors that hate him. No thanks. But it is what it is and thankfully I am perfectly content with the stories that began in 1964 and concluded in 2004, and of course TFA through EG in the MCU.

 

[punisher1974]

I remember the days when characters were "dead" or "Bucky, Green Goblin, Gwen Stacy dead" meaning not to be brought back ever. Those rules were broken. Brubacker also had Nomad killed in a cheap way that didn't sit right with me. He was pivotal in the stories of the late 80's. Nice thing about personal head canon is choose what you like discard the rest. Writers and artists always change characters and events to suit their story or agenda so to me it's all there for fans to pick and choose to collect or read or watch. Agendas mean nothing to me and my opinions are mine to up myself. Write a good story and it will be something I like. Write a agenda and soulless work and I will ignore it.

 

[ironwez20]

A civil discussion hmmm. No PT banter! No ST rage? Better slip into my duck suit and ducky account

 

[SwedishHeat]

Yeah, Brubaker was very open about not being much of a Steve Rogers fan compared to Bucky which immediately makes clear the context for his entire Winter Soldier/Bucky Cap storyline.

That sounds like your opinion, moreso than Brubaker saying anything to that effect. I don't see anything written to back that up.

 

[Khev]

That sounds like your opinion, moreso than Brubaker saying anything to that effect. I don't see anything written to back that up.

Well he does state point blank that he'd been obsessed with wanting Bucky to come back to life since he was 9 years old since he was a Navy brat who spent his childhood on military bases just like Bucky. Nevermind that resurrecting such a character would screw up a decades old character defining aspect of one of Marvel's biggest icons.

https://www.vulture.com/2016/05/bucky-winter-soldier-history.html
Not only did it taint Captain America but like punisher1974 said it also helped forever screw up all "deaths" in the Marvel Universe. Sure people had obscure deaths and then would later return, but there was *always* the chance, and therefore fear, that a character could end up "Bucky dead." Dead, dead. Bucky, Gwen Stacey, and Uncle Ben always kept that the door open to true permanent stakes, even if it was only a sliver. But now the door is forever closed. Literally no one dies forever in post-2004 Marvel which kills the stakes.

But at least you got your childhood hero back Ed. Well done.

 

[Khev]

I remember the days when characters were "dead" or "Bucky, Green Goblin, Gwen Stacy dead" meaning not to be brought back ever. Those rules were broken. Brubacker also had Nomad killed in a cheap way that didn't sit right with me. He was pivotal in the stories of the late 80's. Nice thing about personal head canon is choose what you like discard the rest. Writers and artists always change characters and events to suit their story or agenda so to me it's all there for fans to pick and choose to collect or read or watch. Agendas mean nothing to me and my opinions are mine to up myself. Write a good story and it will be something I like. Write a agenda and soulless work and I will ignore it.

Totally agree and I don't even mind them rebooting the continuity every few decades, in fact I prefer it over pretending that characters are the same age for 50+ years. I think the early 2000's was a great time to start over with new modern takes on the classic heroes and villains, whether they be Ultimates, Brubaker or what have you. That gives everybody clean jumping off/jumping on points each time they reset, just like we've seen so many times in the movies.

I also agree on Nomad's unbecoming death. Just another cheap way to prop up his pet character IMO, but eh, it's all a reboot and brand new continuity from what came before so it doesn't taint any of the older stuff for me.

 

[Prime Clone]

Agreed, especially with regard to TPM. That was pure unbridled, non-damage control Lucas. AOTC and ROTS were obviously him as well but he was clearly throwing in elements (a Fett, minimal Jar Jar, etc.) to cater to critics. But TPM was his pure uncompromised vision and for that alone it's a fascinating watch.

Yep, unfiltered, a rarity in big-budget movies. The Wachowskis were another example.

Wonder if Jar Jar would have stayed Ani's sidekick if not for the backlash? The latest Star Wars Adventures comic for kids shows him hanging with grownup Ani. They're kind of like a galactic Scooby Gang, with Threepio and Jar Jar as Shaggy and Scooby.

Who knows, with time even Jar Jar may become popular!