Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[jye4ever]

“When I was up at bat, I really swung at the ball.”

That kinda epitomizes his failure with this movie to me, that it was all about doing whatever he felt like with no real consideration for the established lore/characters or what people might actually want to see in the movie. Like he would be the type of baseball player to swing wildly and strikeout when all he had to do was bunt to score in a run. I would say most directors these days still make their movies with the hope/intent that people will enjoy watching it but he just didn’t seem to care as long as it tickled his own fancy. It would be like a horror director not caring one bit if the audience thought their film was scary.

His whole thing about audiences wanting to be surprised and see things happen that subverts their expectations is quite the general assumption. Did a film like Mad Max Fury Road surprise me and subvert my expectations? Not really. I guess I was surprised by how amazing the action sequences were and how I was on the edge of my seat the whole time through. But otherwise the plot and characters still went in the direction I expected and made sense for what was set up in the film itself—and it’s still one of the best movies of the 21st Century!

I will say I still think the score and cinematography in TLJ are brilliant. But watching Knives Out when it came out a few years ago kinda solidified to me that he thinks he’s *way* more clever of a writer than he actually is.

I agree with everything you said except Fury Road that movie sucks lol

Actually now that I think about it…

TLJ > FR

But how you used FR to explain subverting expectations was perfect.

 

[Prime Clone]

Also, the "slo-mo" convoy chase in TLJ was straight out of FR!

 

[Prime Clone]

I would say most directors these days still make their movies with the hope/intent that people will enjoy watching it but he just didn’t seem to care as long as it tickled his own fancy. It would be like a horror director not caring one bit if the audience thought their film was scary.

To be fair Lucas was the same with the PT. He made it for himself (and his kids). I gotta admit that's pure art, not just serving up what the audience wants or expects.

At the same time I don't think RJ subverted expectations as much as he likes to think.

 

[abake]

I think I could've gone along with his "subverting expectations" gig if only the movie were actually good.
But it's not.

Knives out I actually enjoyed, and I went in fearing the worst. And when I later watched it with my kids I even enjoyed it more than the first time, so it wasn't just a case of having my low expectations positively upturned.
On the other hand, I had somewhat good expectations going into TLJ, and I abhorred pretty much every minute of it. I tried giving it a second chance after lengthy discussions with ajp and others, but I couldn't even get past the "your momma" jokes.

Anyway, there's nothing I can add to the many reasons why I think TLJ is not only a bad SW movie, but actually a bad movie.

 

[JAWS]

I agree with everything you said except Fury Road that movie sucks lol

Actually now that I think about it…

TLJ > FR

But how you used FR to explain subverting expectations was perfect.

Fury Road was/is overrated.

But it never sucked.

I would choose that any day over TLJ. TLJ just about ruined me as a SW fan. That is some kind of masterful feat.


I always thought FR was decent but never understood the huge praise that it received. I remember when there were people on this thread that said that Immortan Joe was the greatest movie villain ever. Talk about overrated

 

[JAWS]

To be fair Lucas was the same with the PT. He made it for himself (and his kids). I gotta admit that's pure art, not just serving up what the audience wants or expects.

At the same time I don't think RJ subverted expectations as much as he likes to think.

Maybe he meant people's expectations was to enjoy/like the film.

 

[Otomofan]

Anyway, there's nothing I can add to the many reasons why I think TLJ is not only a bad SW movie, but actually a bad movie.

The Last Jedi isn't even a movie. It's just this thing...this ugly, hateful collection of reels that forms a disgusting corporate product. It is cynicism and spite and contempt incarnate.

 

[Khev]

It is cynicism and spite and contempt incarnate.

 

[Khev]

 

[Prime Clone]

 

[a-dev]

Your friendly neighborhood Palpatine!

 

[Prime Clone]

Long-haired Ewan getting the pre-PT tour!

 

[Zurdo95D]

Padme costume test pics!

 

[Zurdo95D]

 

[Prime Clone]

Remove one thing from TPM to make it better:

• Lucas’ directing
• Lucas’ writing
• Midichlorians
• Jar Jar and/or Gungans in general
• Jake Lloyd
• Villains’ accents
• Other

 

[jye4ever]

Remove one thing from TPM to make it better:

• Lucas’ directing
• Lucas’ writing
• Midichlorians
• Jar Jar and/or Gungans in general
• Jake Lloyd
• Villains’ accents
• Other

JarJar/Gungans and back fill with more Maul and Portman in a skimpy outfit.

 

[a-dev]

Remove one thing from TPM to make it better:

• Lucas’ directing
• Lucas’ writing
• Midichlorians
• Jar Jar and/or Gungans in general
• Jake Lloyd
• Villains’ accents
• Other

I don't want to say Jake Lloyd - but any child version of Anakin Skywalker. We never should have seen him at that age. It was unnecessary, it lacked the 'poetry' there would have been had Lucas instead mirrored Luke Skywalker's ages in the OT, it created all manner of awkwardness and implausibility with the Padme relationship later on, it made it more difficult to connect the Anakin of TPM to the Anakin of AOTC and ROTS due to the necessity of the recast with a completely new actor. Just a bad idea all around.

 

[abake]

I'd have to go JarJar/Gungans in general.
Although I like the idea of the two different civilisations sharing the planet but largely ignoring each other (and the power dynamics between the two, which also help to highlight Amidala's character), I didn't much like the execution. It was too comedy-oriented and didn't quite work.
I suppose Jake Lloyd's acting would be a close second, but I have no problem with the introduction of Anakin as a young boy, it works for me.

 

[6thScaleFan]

I don't want to say Jake Lloyd - but any child version of Anakin Skywalker. We never should have seen him at that age. It was unnecessary, it lacked the 'poetry' there would have been had Lucas instead mirrored Luke Skywalker's ages in the OT, it created all manner of awkwardness and implausibility with the Padme relationship later on, it made it more difficult to connect the Anakin of TPM to the Anakin of AOTC and ROTS due to the necessity of the recast with a completely new actor. Just a bad idea all around.

Agreed. Having Anakin be that young in Ep. I was, IMO, a mistake. It just feels off. A teenaged Anakin being a talented mechanic, being cocky about it and winning the pod race, seems more plausible. Teenaged Anakin/Padme having some chemistry would be more believable. A teenaged Anakin being "too old" for Jedi training would track better than Jake Lloyd's version being basically the same age as the other younglings. It would also echo Yoda's reservations about training Anakin's son (Luke) for the same reason.

It would also have removed the need for a ten-year time jump between Episodes I and II. I always felt it was just poor judgment on Lucas' part.

 

[a-dev]

Agreed. Having Anakin be that young in Ep. I was, IMO, a mistake. It just feels off. A teenaged Anakin being a talented mechanic, being cocky about it and winning the pod race, seems more plausible. Teenaged Anakin/Padme having some chemistry would be more believable. A teenaged Anakin being "too old" for Jedi training would track better than Jake Lloyd's version being basically the same age as the other younglings. It would also echo Yoda's reservations about training Anakin's son (Luke) for the same reason.

It would also have removed the need for a ten-year time jump between Episodes I and II. I always felt it was just poor judgment on Lucas' part.

Exactly. It also would have made the so called brother/friendship bond between Obi-Wan and Anakin more believable.

I don't blame Jake Lloyd in any way. He was a child acting like children act.