Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[wormlander]

Do tattoos make things feel awkward in love-making situations?

If you can't "manage" the girls one handed you should stop playing with lightsabers. Just saying...

 

[Wor-Gar]

True, that is what he "says" Yet thankfully Lucas here didn't need that horrible dialogue (which is how writers would do it today), he conveyed it with a simple glance

I'm sure, for a moment, during the SE work, Lucas considered having Luke's thoughts "heard aloud" so it would be clear to everyone. Maybe even an old fashioned intertitle board they used in silent films with his thoughts written in cursive.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Somehow, I find the Death Star wreckage less ridiculous than Darth Maul's return.

Pretty evident that George Lucas lost his fastball a long time ago. And that he fundamentally did not understand the widespread appeal of Darth Maul. Ray Park, Nick Gillard and David Tattersall took what was essentially a blank slate and gave a tension filled contrast to the samurai code. Maul has a visceral feral quality to him. What he does not have, as Lucas desired, was to be a quasi centaur version of Tony Soprano on Coruscant. And especially not for three full sequel films. Want the best proof? If Lucas understood what he had in Darth Maul, he wouldn't have killed him off in the first place. And if he later understood what he had in Darth Maul, he wouldn't have tried to bring him back.

While Kennedy and The Big Mouse carry a major share of the blame for the failures of the Sequel Trilogy, there is also blood on the hands of Lucas. His ability to raze any future film in the national daily media cycle at will operated as a kind of hostage situation for the new Lucasfilm. This is why David Fincher walked out. An actual screen writing method, though completely brutal, is to push through writers block by writing an actual entire novel. Then adapting it into a screenplay. Once you force yourself to long form out the story, you will naturally see the fracture points as you can rarely hide thematic disconnects over volume. People can love, hate or be indifferent to Zahn's trilogy, but at least it was all on paper. At least it had to survive hard vetting by others first from an editing standpoint.

The Prequel Trilogy struggled, in part, because Lucas had rough concepts, stored over decades, without anyone having the power to tell him where his narrative started to disconnect. The same issues would have come up if he had made the decision to helm a Sequel Trilogy as well. Having major falling out situations with Ford Coppola, Brian DePalma and Spielberg didn't help matters.

The core belief that Lucas can tank a future Star Wars project almost completely, just out of spite, by holding his own "Sword Of Damocles" within the framework of the current national daily media cycle, means that a lot of people are basically waiting for him to die. This is an Al Davis / Oakland Raiders situation. Someone who was phenomenal once. In the past. But has clearly lost their fastball. But their waning "legacy" sabotages the current situation. Don't get me wrong, it's not like Kathleen Kennedy and The Big Mouse are blameless here, but it's not just them.

The simple answer is George Lucas is not this mythical endless version of a creative genius. The longer this plays out, the more evident that becomes. I appreciate the Holy Trilogy to no end. But it wasn't just Lucas working on them. He's a rich man's version of Chris Carter.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Once Lucas built his own "Empire" at Lucas Ranch, he was lost. Divorced. Isolated. Gary Kurtz-less. And surrounded by yes-men. This was early on. ROTJ and Temple of Doom suffered for it. And then we got Howard The Duck. Not satisfied yet? Willow followed -- the ultimate rip-off of LOTR. He retreated further into his world, still believing he was right. And he lost many friends. Finally, he announced the return of Star Wars... and sold a lot more toys.

Lucas was lost a long time ago...

 

[Prime Clone]

 

[wormlander]

Once Lucas built his own "Empire" at Lucas Ranch, he was lost. Divorced. Isolated. Gary Kurtz-less. And surrounded by yes-men. This was early on. ROTJ and Temple of Doom suffered for it. And then we got Howard The Duck. Not satisfied yet? Willow followed -- the ultimate rip-off of LOTR. He retreated further into his world, still believing he was right. And he lost many friends. Finally, he announced the return of Star Wars... and sold a lot more toys.

Lucas was lost a long time ago...

Gary Kurtz is overrated. Fight me...

 

[pixletwin]

Gary Kurtz is overrated. Fight me...

Maybe.

His effect on George Lucas is not. I'll fight you.

 

[Sachiel]

If you can't "manage" the girls one handed you should stop playing with lightsabers. Just saying...

 

[Prime Clone]

https://www.tumblr.com/rochenn/740251712808484864

 

[wormlander]

Maybe.

His effect on George Lucas is not. I'll fight you.

I'm not saying he didn't play an important part in creating Star Wars, but after having watched the "Light & Magic" documentary I nolonger believe he had much artistic influence at all over either SW or ESB. According to several people involved in the productions Kurtz was little more than a silent bystander, who allowed Kirshner almost free (economic) reign on ESB. While this undoubtedly helped make the movie an all time classic it also went so much over budget that it seriously jeopardized the whole upcoming production of ROTJ. It seems to me like it was the hiring of Marquand that made ROTJ suffer unnecessarily in both the directorial and (later) editorial departments. Just like back in 1977 Marcia Lucas once again managed to "save" large parts of ROTJ in the cutting room. That said, while the finished movie occationally does have some pretty glaring flaws (when compared to SW and ESB), It's still easily the most bad-ass entertaining 3:rd chapter of any franchise ever made.

 

[Sixth Scale Man]

In 1983 ROTJ was the most glorious thing this 12 year old had ever witnessed. With the passing of time, the flaws are more obvious. The somewhat lacklustre performances. Particularly Ford, but he wasn’t given much to do. The directing was pretty flat too. But I have to say that it feels like Hamill still gave a crap and is the heart and soul of the movie.
Also, so much creativity! The creatures in Jabba’s palace, Jabba himself, the vehicles and ships. ILM and the creature shop (Tippett is a mad god!) Yes, it was a merchandiser’s dream, but damn I loved collecting the toys. My Christmases were amazing. Great memories. I’m grateful for that

 

[chrisstbh]

 

[choombaz]

The directing was pretty flat too.

Agree. But ..

I really like the entire sequence in throne room. It’s beautifully shot and I love the way the lightsaber fight moves around the room. The music helps a lot as well. Gripping stuff.

 

[Mondragon]

Where is Jarjar...?

View attachment 688679

 

[Sixth Scale Man]

Agree. But ..

I really like the entire sequence in throne room. It’s beautifully shot and I love the way the lightsaber fight moves around the room. The music helps a lot as well. Gripping stuff.

Yes, definitely some well staged sequences. The Throne Room being a stand out, which was really the crescendo to the whole thing. Hamill and McDairmid were great, combined with the Williams score and James Earl Jones bringing it. The sail barge escape was fun and the first speeder bike chase is still amazing. There's just some interactions with Fisher and Ford that don't have the rag-tag camaraderie of Star Wars or the bickering/flirty shenanigans of Empire.

 

[Sixth Scale Man]

Disney hoping the meme generator will fill the coffers after constantly screwing the Gundark. I guess it will be nice for the fans who grew up with it on home video to see it on the big screen. It does have some amazing visuals

 

[Otomofan]

There was already a re-release right before Disney bout Lucasfilm.....in 3D!!

They were gonna re-release all 6 movies in 3D, one at a time, but it got scrapped immediately. I felt bad for my buddy that went to go see it cause he really just wanted to see the OT, and they didn't get around to it.

He's still never seen the OT on the big screen. It's a shame.

 

[wormlander]

There's just some interactions with Fisher and Ford that don't have the rag-tag camaraderie of Star Wars or the bickering/flirty shenanigans of Empire.

Yup, they grew up...

 

[Prime Clone]

He will find us and he will kill us:


https://www.nme.com/news/film/liam-...nks-backlash-after-the-phantom-menace-3586002

 

[Prime Clone]

^ Reminds me, until I saw Icons Unearthed I had no idea George wanted to double down on Jar Jar in Episode II despite the backlash. Jonathan Hales obviously had enough clout to dissuade him.