Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[wormlander]

There's just so much to hate in 'Jedi'.

How Star Wars '77 went from an awe-inspiring space fantasy to a Saturday morning cartoon in just 6 years.

You're just too goddamn old...

 

[jye4ever]

You're just too goddamn old...

Nope not at all.

I was there opening night.

It was legit super disappointing experiencing the introduction of the Ewoks knocking out armored troopers with rocks as if no armor was being used at all and witnessing Ford phoning it in as Solo under a horrible character arc and script.

Yes the climatic space battle and the emperor ultimately saves the movie and gives it its iconic status but 55% of the movie is super cringe.

Well yeah sure Wor-Gar is still an old fart lol

 

[ZE_501]

I was 10 when I watched it and I don't think I loved the Ewoks but kinda rolled with it, because the Sarlacc battle, the Speeder Bike chase, final duel and space battle were the scenes I loved, the Rancor too I guess ... Jabba's palace wasn't a favourite but I liked the atmosphere.

I forgot about it for years like a lot of people; no Internet keeping it in the public mind via memes or discussion, only so many times I was going to watch a VHS tape when it was time to get older, forget comics for a while, chase girls etc.

Only revisiting it as an adult, the nostalgia wears off and you kinda cringe. But it was of its time.

 

[The Buffinator]

Then by that logic, Alec Guiness's age doesn't match with Ewan McGregor's either.

Watch the Ep3 making of and even Ewan says it's only been 2 years from Ep2 and that he jokes it must have been a rough 2 years because they've aged him so dramatically to look more like Guiness.

People need to keep in mind that any age mismatch is the fault of what Lucas created in the PT. The OT came first, so an older Sebastian Shaw in ROTJ is what Lucas' prequel trilogy should have worked toward. Obi-Wan referred to Anakin as his friend in Star Wars not his padawan. so my expectation for the PT was that they would be peers (especially given that Guinness and Shaw weren't that far apart in age). As soon as they trotted out Jake Lloyd as Ani next to McGregor, everyone with a brain knew things didn't add up. I guess Lucas wasn't capable of writing a story where Palpatine turned a full-fledged, mature Jedi at the height of his powers so he decided the math didn't matter.

 

[jye4ever]

People need to keep in mind that any age mismatch is the fault of what Lucas created in the PT. The OT came first, so an older Sebastian Shaw in ROTJ is what Lucas' prequel trilogy should have worked toward. Obi-Wan referred to Anakin as his friend in Star Wars not his padawan. so my expectation for the PT was that they would be peers (especially given that Guinness and Shaw weren't that far apart in age). As soon as they trotted out Jake Lloyd as Ani next to McGregor, everyone with a brain knew things didn't add up. I guess Lucas wasn't capable of writing a story where Palpatine turned a full-fledged, mature Jedi at the height of his powers so he decided the math didn't matter.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

People need to keep in mind that any age mismatch is the fault of what Lucas created in the PT. The OT came first, so an older Sebastian Shaw in ROTJ is what Lucas' prequel trilogy should have worked toward. Obi-Wan referred to Anakin as his friend in Star Wars not his padawan. so my expectation for the PT was that they would be peers (especially given that Guinness and Shaw weren't that far apart in age). As soon as they trotted out Jake Lloyd as Ani next to McGregor, everyone with a brain knew things didn't add up. I guess Lucas wasn't capable of writing a story where Palpatine turned a full-fledged, mature Jedi at the height of his powers so he decided the math didn't matter.

This is fair, but using clues in Gunniess’ dialogue, he was amazed by Anakin’s talent, took it upon himself to train him, even Yoda’s comment that Luke is too old to begin the training- indicate Anakin would have been younger than Ben.

Shaw is almost a decade older than Guinness. Great actor and perfect for the unmasking, but Hayden’s casting or Anakin’s prequel age aren’t that far out of the left field either.

 

[The Buffinator]

View attachment 727129

 

[jye4ever]

This is fair, but using clues in Gunniess’ dialogue, he was amazed by Anakin’s talent, took it upon himself to train him, even Yoda’s comment that Luke is too old to begin the training- indicate Anakin would have been younger than Ben.

Shaw is almost a decade older than Guinness. Great actor and perfect for the unmasking, but Hayden’s casting or Anakin’s prequel age aren’t that far out of the left field either.

That’s a very good point I might have to cancel my support for Buffinator, god i’m so fickle lol

 

[jye4ever]

 

[The Buffinator]

This is fair, but using clues in Gunniess’ dialogue, he was amazed by Anakin’s talent, took it upon himself to train him, even Yoda’s comment that Luke is too old to begin the training- indicate Anakin would have been younger than Ben.

Shaw is almost a decade older than Guinness. Great actor and perfect for the unmasking, but Hayden’s casting or Anakin’s prequel age aren’t that far out of the left field either.

True, but Obi-Wan said that in ESB and what Lucas gave us in TPM didn't even align with that given the whole Qui-Gon making him promise to train him and the Jedi Council approving it. It really wasn't Obi-Wan's decision at all. If it wasn't Qui-Gon's dying wish he probably would have dropped off Ani at the nearest adoption agency lol. Plus, in ESB didn't Obi-Wan also point out that Luke wasn't much older than he was when Yoda first trained him? So Lucas really didn't have to begin Anakin's arc at such a young age either.

If the PT had started with a ROTS-aged Hayden I think that would have been better, as the age difference with Obi-Wan would have been less jarring, he and Portman's relationship wouldn't have been seen as creepy and it would have better aligned with the OT Obi-Wan/Vader dynamic.

Regarding the Shaw/Guinness age difference, yes Shaw was older but all you really saw of his Anakin was an extremely disfigured head. Given his injuries and scars one could buy his being either older or younger than Obi-Wan. As for his Jedi Ghost look, given what he went through becoming Vader it stands to reason he wouldn't age as well as Obi-Wan lol.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

True, but Obi-Wan said that in ESB and what Lucas gave us in TPM didn't even align with that given the whole Qui-Gon making him promise to train him and the Jedi Council approving it. It really wasn't Obi-Wan's decision at all. If it wasn't Qui-Gon's dying wish he probably would have dropped off Ani at the nearest adoption agency lol. Plus, in ESB didn't Obi-Wan also point out that Luke wasn't much older than he was when Yoda first trained him? So Lucas really didn't have to begin Anakin's arc at such a young age either.

If the PT had started with a ROTS-aged Hayden I think that would have been better, as the age difference with Obi-Wan would have been less jarring, he and Portman's relationship wouldn't have been seen as creepy and it would have better aligned with the OT Obi-Wan/Vader dynamic.

Regarding the Shaw/Guinness age difference, yes Shaw was older but all you really saw of his Anakin was an extremely disfigured head. Given his injuries and scars one could buy his being either older or younger than Obi-Wan. As for his Jedi Ghost look, given what he went through becoming Vader it stands to reason he wouldn't age as well as Obi-Wan lol.

Right. Shaw’s casting as the unmasked Vader is perfect. I never had an issue with it.

Ultimately there are inconsistencies in the lore/dialogue from film to film, even in the OT, as Lucas’ ideas were constantly changing.

That’s why I’m content being along for the ride and letting Lucas do his thing. It can all be true, from a certain point of view.

 

[The Buffinator]

Right. Shaw’s casting as the unmasked Vader is perfect. I never had an issue with it.

Ultimately there are inconsistencies in the lore/dialogue from film to film, even in the OT, as Lucas’ ideas were constantly changing.

That’s why I’m content being along for the ride and letting Lucas do his thing. It can all be true, from a certain point of view.

Works for me.*





* - Except for that Acolyte excrement. That was just a bad dream.

 

[jaztermareal]

I shall put inconsistent aging down to environmental factors and time dilation.


If the prequels were to be re-made, I would have anakin be the age he was in AOTC during the Phantom Menace and have Obiwan be a decade older too. That would line up more neatly and you could have 3 movies to buiĺd up their relationship with an entire movie set during the clone wars. Just have the wars begin a decade earlier toward the end of TPM and finish during ROTS. Also, I would ensure that if I did a Kenobi show remake that the actor had grey hair to signify passage of time between ROTS and Kenobi so that it would line up with ANH.

Basically Lucas made both characters too young in the prequels and he skipped most of the clone wars where their relationship would have been able to be fleshed out.

 

[Mondragon]

I'm a person and my name is Anakin!
\

... David Prowse ....Who had physically played the character under the mask for {most of] three films.
Then they even cast somone who somewhat looks like a young Prowse to play him when he's young.

In the end they were all interchangeable, and now even more subgect to any frivoulosu CG and voice synth "replacements".

As to the narrative "problems", he waved it away as he exists as Anakin in spirit, as he was before he became Vader.
Yet than who is the older persona who consciously saves his own son (and daughter), and finally kills the Emperor, are they not who is in fact redeemed?

I was more bothered with things like Yoda, who for years I imgained a spiritual tempered being whose true power, beauty and skill, manifest through absolute calm, serene state of being.
Sudenley fliping around like a lunatic doing somersaults, cartwheels and spins, like a frikin loony-toon.

Release the all Prowse cut!:
That is with a CG-deep-faked young Prowse inserted into the Prequals
And an older Prowse inserted into the unmasking.
(though I haven't seen it, I think there is actually a honarary fan film, which had him physically recreate and perform the ROTJ unmasking scene- https://www.collectorfreaks.com/thr...eturn-of-the-jedi.246175/page-4#post-10727016 )

Then from all the on-set takes where Prowse actually spoke all Vaders dialogue, synth-merge all his dialogue with Jones, and give Vader his true stilted delivery and ___ accent!

 

[Wor-Gar]

You're just too goddamn old...

But I thought that in 1983 when I was young too. Have never changed my opinion.

 

[Wor-Gar]

When I was a kid and had the Revenge of the Jedi poster, I always thought it referred to Luke becoming a Jedi and getting revenge - but then Lucas reconsidered the tile as "it's not right for a Jedi to seek revenge" (or something to that effect).

That's the truth. Everything since has been embellishment.