Star Wars: The Acolyte

[Kebron]

Question: was TROS making 1.077 billion in regards to ticket sales? In that case, you need to factor in the theatres cut before you can say over 200 million profit. Theatre takes vary but I have seen theatre cuts stated before from 10% to 50% ticket price.


Just an example of the sorts of costs not usually being taken into account.


As for "why do they keep making merch" you do remember how little merch there was for TROS don't you. The hasbro 3.75 inch line was non existent IIRC and barely any 6 inch figures either. HT did a few. As for why any get made, well, in order to keep the licence they need to make something once in a while. They will be contractually obliged to make certain things to maintain their license. If they want to make Mando product they need to make occasional ST figures in the main non tie in line. The cost of those peg warmers hopefully gets offset by the Grogus, Clones and MandoS.

I see you are focusing on figures and collectibles, where I'm talking merch overall which includes apparel, shirts, mouse ears, etc etc. Also a lot of the merch is made by Disney themselves, there is no license mandate for them the license holder to make it. Heance why I said in our previous now deleted conversation you find all sorts of merch for the sequel trilogies in the parks. And they continue to make it. I'm in the parks quite often, so when you say things like "how little merch" My experience was different because I don't limit to just Hasbro and HT. There was quite a bit of merch, and merch for the sequal trilogies is still being made.

I don't know if it was ticket sales or not. I could research it but does it really matter? Over the last couple days I've provided you with multiple links containing information that supports my points, it's clear despite facts being given you just don't want to accept them. You have made your mind up and you just refuse anything that doesn't align with it. Our entire conversation from last night was deleted and I expect this one will be deleted too.

It's been almost 10 years since the first sequel movie came out. People have been screaming the end of SW, and Disney is going broke/losing money for at least that long, or longer. In 10 more years I expect that will continue, I just wonder how many years it will actually take for people to realize Disney isn't going broke, and SW still makes them money.

 

[jaztermareal]

Notice my claim was not disney going broke or no merch selling, it was that the sequel trilogy merch failed and that the movies have not been as profitable as needed for ROI yet. I imagine that if Disney have made back their investment (accounting for all costs) it has likely taken far longer to break even than intended due to the sequel trilogy and everything based on it not being as successful as it should have been. It was a series of diminishing returns.


Even now, toy stores in my area are packed with toys but only a couple even have star wars sections, and said sections went from aisles to part of a single shelf and most of that stuff is on clearance sat unsold for many months (could grab a TLJ Rey for 50 pence if I wanted a 3rd). Other stores no longer have any star wars toys putside of lego which seems to do ok.


Also, non toy merch has diminished considerably where I am and everywhere I have visited. It is a surprise to even see someone outside a disney park wearing a star wars shirt nowadays.


On used toy sales sequel merch is dirt cheap and dealers seem unable to offload it. OT and some PT/CW stuff either sells quick is priced too high for my budget. I went from zero TFA 3.75 inch figures and vehicles to an almost complete collection. Average price per figure was maybe 20 pence. Vehicles a few quid. Rogue One figures however were average maybe £1-2 loose and used. Same for Solo. Still some R1 and Solo stuff I am missing.


Over past couple years I managed to get (at last count) maybe 700-800 disney era figures. Pre disney stuff was not so easy as usually anything OT or PT is closer to RRP even loose.



That all tells me that outside the parks (which have self selecting fans making up bulk of attendance) the brand has faded. Almost no one I know IRL is a fan any more. I am back to being the weirdo who collects Star Wars stuff when everyone else long since sold off what they had.

 

[Kebron]

Notice my claim was not disney going broke or no merch selling, it was that the sequel trilogy merch failed and that the movies have not been as profitable as needed for ROI yet. I imagine that if Disney have made back their investment (accounting for all costs) it has likely taken far longer to break even than intended due to the sequel trilogy and everything based on it not being as successful as it should have been. It was a series of diminishing returns.


Even now, toy stores in my area are packed with toys but only a couple even have star wars sections, and said sections went from aisles to part of a single shelf and most of that stuff is on clearance sat unsold for many months (could grab a TLJ Rey for 50 pence if I wanted a 3rd). Other stores no longer have any star wars toys putside of lego which seems to do ok.


Also, non toy merch has diminished considerably where I am and everywhere I have visited. It is a surprise to even see someone outside a disney park wearing a star wars shirt nowadays.


On used toy sales sequel merch is dirt cheap and dealers seem unable to offload it. OT and some PT/CW stuff either sells quick is priced too high for my budget. I went from zero TFA 3.75 inch figures and vehicles to an almost complete collection. Average price per figure was maybe 20 pence. Vehicles a few quid. Rogue One figures however were average maybe £1-2 loose and used. Same for Solo. Still some R1 and Solo stuff I am missing.


Over past couple years I managed to get (at last count) maybe 700-800 disney era figures. Pre disney stuff was not so easy as usually anything OT or PT is closer to RRP even loose.



That all tells me that outside the parks (which have self selecting fans making up bulk of attendance) the brand has faded. Almost no one I know IRL is a fan any more. I am back to being the weirdo who collects Star Wars stuff when everyone else long since sold off what they had.

Notice I didn’t say you I said people. Plus this a continuing conversation from yesterday where I was talking the same points, points like in this conversation.

If as you propose the sequel trilogies took longer to make their money back, and that the profits were less, then why hasn’t there been a change of direction? (Which do you have links showing this proposal as fact?) I see people on this forum ask that same question often. I see people wondering why Kennedy is still in charge.

Sorry your anecdotal evidence doesn’t match up with my own. Where I am SW is everywhere and people are fans. Sure they have varying degrees in what they like or don’t like but they are fans and show it proudly.

As for aftermarket figure prices I’m not sure where you are buying them, but keep going back cause you are getting great prices. A simple eBay search pulled this up. Prices much higher the pences and a few pounds.

What is apparent is you are basing your views on where you live, as well as your personal opinions on the movie and extrapolating that into how the franchise and Disney is doing despite a lot of evidence to the contrary.

If I was to do the same as you based on where I live and people walking the streets you’d think SW was the biggest thing since sliced bread and drowns out all other IPs. Where I am I’m the weirdo for wearing and collecting Trek and Indiana Jones while everyone else is sporting SW clothes with rooms full of various merch.

 

[jaztermareal]

Disney did seem to cancel many projects... I think that tells you that they had to try to course correct a little. The Rey movie might be the only thing truly doubling down on the sequels. Lets see if 1 it happens and 2 it is actually a success.

 

[jye4ever]

Disney parks are super hated now due to their convoluted predatory structure.

There is no way in hell they made any money with Acolyte just no freaking way.

Disney is a huge machine that can’t pivot on a dime when an iceberg is up ahead.

It seems…just maybe…JUST MAYBE… that they are SLOWLY reversing course on their horrific business practices.

Word again behind the scenes is that KK is out of SW.

There weren’t enough candles at my local church for me to light to make that wish come true lol

 

[Kebron]

Disney parks are super hated now due to their convoluted predatory structure.

There is no way in hell they made any money with Acolyte just no freaking way.

Disney is a huge machine that can’t pivot on a dime when an iceberg is up ahead.

It seems…just maybe…JUST MAYBE… that they are SLOWLY reversing course on their horrific business practices.

Word again behind the scenes is that KK is out of SW.

There weren’t enough candles at my local church for me to light to make that wish come true lol

Is that KK rumor from the same places that said she was out after Indy And out after Obi, and out after BoBF, and out after TROS? That she hasn’t had control of SW after those same projects I mentioned?

Disney doesn’t play around like that. If someone under performs they just get rid of them. Bob Chapek comes to mind. There have been others like the guys who Ron Howard replaced on Solo. That was done very quickly when they didn’t like the direction it was going.

You’d think the predatory nature Disney has been taking with the parks would stop people from going. It hasn’t really parks still crowded. There’s been a dip in attendance but that’s across all theme and amusement parks in general.

 

[Otomofan]

KK is OUT this time...for REAL....I really mean it....not like all those other times....THIS time it's finally gonna happen......oh yeah....we're gonna be SOOO happy....goodbye KK.......for realsies.

 

[Khev]

KK is OUT this time...for REAL....I really mean it....not like all those other times....THIS time it's finally gonna happen......oh yeah....we're gonna be SOOO happy....goodbye KK.......for realsies.

Reminds me of the Double Toasted guys making fun of Reva interrogating Leia.

"Talk or I'll push this button! I'm serious! You're seconds away from being tortured! I mean it, now talk! Getting closer, okay now I'm *really* about to push the button. Here it comes! Last chance! Okay last chance right *now*. I mean now. Oh this is so imminent! My hand is moving closer now. Closer, almost there!"

"Sister Reva! We're receiving reports of someone slapping the living hell out of Stormtroopers in Sector 3!"

"I'm on it!" (To Leia) "You are SO lucky because I was just about to press it. You're as good as tortured when I get back."

 

[jye4ever]

Is that KK rumor from the same places that said she was out after Indy And out after Obi, and out after BoBF, and out after TROS? That she hasn’t had control of SW after those same projects I mentioned?

Disney doesn’t play around like that. If someone under performs they just get rid of them. Bob Chapek comes to mind. There have been others like the guys who Ron Howard replaced on Solo. That was done very quickly when they didn’t like the direction it was going.

You’d think the predatory nature Disney has been taking with the parks would stop people from going. It hasn’t really parks still crowded. There’s been a dip in attendance but that’s across all theme and amusement parks in general.

I guess you missed my “maybe…JUST MAYBE” part of my post lol

 

[loki2371]

I see you are focusing on figures and collectibles, where I'm talking merch overall which includes apparel, shirts, mouse ears, etc etc. Also a lot of the merch is made by Disney themselves, there is no license mandate for them the license holder to make it. Heance why I said in our previous now deleted conversation you find all sorts of merch for the sequel trilogies in the parks. And they continue to make it. I'm in the parks quite often, so when you say things like "how little merch" My experience was different because I don't limit to just Hasbro and HT. There was quite a bit of merch, and merch for the sequal trilogies is still being made.

I don't know if it was ticket sales or not. I could research it but does it really matter? Over the last couple days I've provided you with multiple links containing information that supports my points, it's clear despite facts being given you just don't want to accept them. You have made your mind up and you just refuse anything that doesn't align with it. Our entire conversation from last night was deleted and I expect this one will be deleted too.

It's been almost 10 years since the first sequel movie came out. People have been screaming the end of SW, and Disney is going broke/losing money for at least that long, or longer. In 10 more years I expect that will continue, I just wonder how many years it will actually take for people to realize Disney isn't going broke, and SW still makes them money.

Forbes wrote an article earlier this year that outlined everything Disney has spent on and outlaid for Star Wars and all of the Lucasfilm properties (the cost of the Parks expansion, the disastrous hotel, the movies, merch...everything). The writer had deduced that after all was said and done, it's possible Disney is still in the red. You can search for the article. And there was another article by another "trusted/regarded source" that said the same.

Here's the Forbes article...

Disney ‘Star Wars’ Box-Office Profits Fail To Cover Cost Of Buying Lucasfilm

 

[Kebron]

Forbes wrote an article earlier this year that outlined everything Disney has spent on and outlaid for Star Wars and all of the Lucasfilm properties (the cost of the Parks expansion, the disastrous hotel, the movies, merch...everything). The writer had deduced that after all was said and done, it's possible Disney is still in the red. You can search for the article. And there was another article by another "trusted/regarded source" that said the same.

Here's the Forbes article...

Disney ‘Star Wars’ Box-Office Profits Fail To Cover Cost Of Buying Lucasfilm

I’ve read that article before. Doesn’t talk about costs or profits from the parks, merchandise, Blu rays, the Starcruiser. It just focuses on the movie costs and profits. It even says it in the title of the article. “Box office Profits fail to cover cost of Buying Lucasfilm”. I just skimmed it again. I only saw numbers covering the movies. But by all means if missed something in that article about the parks, merch, etc feel free to correct me.

 

[Kebron]

I guess you missed my “maybe…JUST MAYBE” part of my post lol

I saw it. I just think they aren’t doing much course correcting. Cause if they were they’d just do it like in the examples I gave above.

 

[loki2371]

I’ve read that article before. Doesn’t talk about costs or profits from the parks, merchandise, Blu rays, the Starcruiser. It just focuses on the movie costs and profits. It even says it in the title of the article. “Box office Profits fail to cover cost of Buying Lucasfilm”. I just skimmed it again. I only saw numbers covering the movies. But by all means if missed something in that article about the parks, merch, etc feel free to correct me.

The Forbes article just touches on it...

Of course, the calculation above doesn't include the huge profits Disney makes on the Star Wars merchandise, DVDs and Blu Rays. However, it also doesn't include the massive marketing costs of the movies as well as the costs of the Star Wars streaming shows and theme park attractions which also don't have revenue streams directly connected to them as visitors get access to all of the rides for the price of a single ticket.

I said there was another article that went into more detail. But I don't remember the source. It might've been the website JediTempleArchives. The guy on there goes into great detail breaking down stuff.

Has Disney Made Any Actual Profit With Star Wars Since 2012?

He also references the Forbes article, and just touches on the parks being a big factor.

Here's another fact, $1 Billion to build Galaxies Edge and maybe another for Starcruiser Hotel.

How much did Star Wars land cost? Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge at Disneyland in Anaheim, California and Walt Disney World near Orlando, Florida cost $1 billion to build at each location Feb 3, 2024

Estimates of the cost to build Disney's Star Wars: Galactic Starcruiser hotel ranged from $350 million to $1 billion. The hotel, which opened in March 2022 and closed permanently in September 2023

 

[Kebron]

Disney did seem to cancel many projects... I think that tells you that they had to try to course correct a little. The Rey movie might be the only thing truly doubling down on the sequels. Lets see if 1 it happens and 2 it is actually a success.

They did cancel a lot of projects across all their IPs not just SW. It has less to do with course correction and more to do with profits. The company has been doing a lot of canceling, reshuffling, and laying people off.

IMO the Rey story is done. It doesn’t need another chapter. But I also though the OT was done and didn’t need another chapter.

 

[Kebron]

The Forbes article just touches on it...



I said there was another article that went into more detail. But I don't remember the source. It might've been the website JediTempleArchives. The guy on there goes into great detail breaking down stuff.

Yes but you said this.

“Forbes wrote an article earlier this year that outlined everything Disney has spent on and outlaid for Star Wars and all of the Lucasfilm properties (the cost of the Parks expansion, the disastrous hotel, the movies, merch...everything). The writer had deduced that after all was said and done, it's possible Disney is still in the red”

That’s not what the article said at all. It was just in the movies.

The article did say this though.
Of course, the calculation above doesn't include the huge profits Disney makes on the Star Wars merchandise, DVDs and Blu Rays.

Without any numbers given one could take that to mean that even though the movies may not have pay all of the price for Lucasfilm, the other stuff could have.

This also brings me back to what I was talking about yesterday. Disney makes the movies to sell the merch, just like Lucas did. It’s a formula Disney uses across the board. Everyone is focused on the what the movies make, when really they should be looking at the merch, theme parks, etc.

 

[loki2371]

Yes but you said this.

“Forbes wrote an article earlier this year that outlined everything Disney has spent on and outlaid for Star Wars and all of the Lucasfilm properties (the cost of the Parks expansion, the disastrous hotel, the movies, merch...everything). The writer had deduced that after all was said and done, it's possible Disney is still in the red”

That’s not what the article said at all. It was just in the movies.

The article did say this though.
Of course, the calculation above doesn't include the huge profits Disney makes on the Star Wars merchandise, DVDs and Blu Rays.

Without any numbers given one could take that to mean that even though the movies may not have pay all of the price for Lucasfilm, the other stuff could have.

This also brings me back to what I was talking about yesterday. Disney makes the movies to sell the merch, just like Lucas did. It’s a formula Disney uses across the board. Everyone is focused on the what the movies make, when really they should be looking at the merch, theme parks, etc.

I found the article and added it. Then I looked for the JTA one. But that also just touched on it. There's a more in depth with figures, I just don't remember. And I just added above the cost of Galaxies Edge and the failed Starcruiser hotel. Adding almost another $2billion in costs.

But whatever. The take on all this is that it's Highly Likely Disney has still not made a profit off of buying all of Lucasfilm from George Lucas after 12 years.

 

[Kebron]

I found the article and added it. Then I looked for the JTA one. But that also just touched on it. There's a more in depth with figures, I just don't remember. And I just added above the cost of Galaxies Edge and the failed Starcruiser hotel. Adding almost another $2billion in costs.

But whatever. The take on all this is that it's Highly Likely Disney has still not made a profit off of buying all of Lucasfilm from George Lucas after 12 years.

I disagree from what I’ve read it looks like they already made their money back from purchasing Lucasfilm. Pretty sure merchandise alone would cover that cost. But I’m tired and heading to sleep so forgive me for not looking it up.

If Disney is losing money then why are they expanding? They just announced at D23 major expansions across the board. In Florida alone they are spending 8 billion over the next 10 years expanding the parks. Construction has already begun. That’s not something a company losing money does.

 

[Sassafras]

Writing is more important than production value. If it was well written people would have forgiven the poor production value. It DOES matter what thoughts and intentions are behind the show. Far far more than budget.

The show was just bad, it had bad acting, bad and especially illogical writing, immoral messaging and worst of all, was downright boring for much of its runtime. It also treated established lore as an inconvenient thing to ignored.

When a great show is cheaply made people forgive the effects etc, when a bad show is poorly made people do not forgive. When the cheap looking poorly made whow has a huge budget people feel downright cheated.

Well, yeah, who doesn't love a story. I've sat through complete *&^% which I will never watch again, 'coz I was engaged enough might as well slog to the end.
Like, Rebel Moon.

When someone interviews Headland & co. - and apparently Headland did/had some writing ability - SOME - at least in the past - nobody seems to bluntly point out to her the obvious writing/editing issues, as well as casting issues, directing issues.

You've got one, maybe two cast members who actually had any charisma. A few nice visuals. The rest, agree with what's already been posted. There were actual hints of some good ideas here, that just fizzled in execution. But, at least there were some hilarious YT vids.

 

[Wor-Gar]

It says a billion to build at each location. So that's 2 billion for the 2x Galaxy Edge parks... and up to another 3rd billion for that crappy hotel.

 

[Johnny Utah]