Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[cerealkeller]

I’ve seen it twice now. First time Tuesday night at midnight. I was really let down that night. I felt like it had a completely different cinematic language than what a Star Wars film should be. I liked a lot of it, especially the desperation of the Resistance being hunted down to almost nothing. But ultimately it made me realize that Star Wars going forward is not going to made for us “long timers” Disney is looking at the future and I get that.

I thoroughly enjoyed it the second time. I don’t know why but the way the story was told seemed to settle better with me. I still think Canto Bight is a wasted section and could have been used to possibly go into Snokes background and how he seduced young Ben Solo to begin with. But the time on the Jedi island is terrific. Mark Hamill gave such a brave performance. I loved the flashes of Luke come out when he saw R2.

I will be seeing it several more times and my opinion may change. But for right now I am taking away the ownership I feel over these characters and realizing that new filmmakers are taking over Star Wars and it will never be the same. I like where they are taking the story, but will never be as obsessed as I once was because for me Star Wars will always be the story of the Skywalkers and the further they move away from that the less interest I will have.

Would give it a 7.5 out of 10 currently.


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[matticus]

Thoughts

Spoiler

Wow. This movie sucked and I am offended being a Star Wars fan in seeing this. And as in Star Wars fan, I mean OT and EU dedicated. I actually bought PT merch just cause I get amped for a new SW movie. TFA hurt me bad, but this one was the dagger to the heart. There were so many that doesn't make any sense moments throughout the movie, I couldn't stop shaking my head time and time again. The Canto Banto or whatever the name is plotline was TOTALLY worthless. The jokes to "lighten" the movie were awful. The most UNFORGIVABLE mistakes is the let downs. Snoke...Knights of Ren....The first Luke moment...The rest of the Luke moments. I can at least respect Abrams action...but I was bored half the movie and seen others just looking around multiple times as well. Zero creativity!

 

[Otomofan]

These movies are made for dumb people.

Couldn't agree more. ALL of these "cinematic universes" are dumbed down for imbeciles. SW, Marvel, DC, Jurassic World....all of it. The days of even slightly cerebral mainstream films are long gone.

 

[Luminous]

I watched it another time before deciding to post here. I must admit that this is not the SW movie I was expecting. I went in without expectation and I was surprised by every decision the movie made.

It is a big break from the mythology and basically taking sw into uncharted territory.

The verdict is that I loved it. Maybe not as much as empire but I love it more than any of the PT, ROTJ and even ANH.

This is probably the first realistic SW movie (ala Battlestar Galactica) where your heroes are flawed, make mistakes, live is not always rosy, plans don't always go your way, lots of people die during a war, and your leaders will not always be able to make the popular decision in order to survive.

I don't count RO as a realistic SW movie because while I enjoyed it, for their plan to succeed, they are more like the luckiest group out people out there.

This is surely a divisive SW movie for the fandom and judging by the posts on my FB wall from my other fellow SW fans, a surprisingly large amount is having a meltdown now. These are fans who love the OT so much that they just could not fathom the possibility of a main SW movie that is not about the Skywalkers. TLJ is surely not a movie for those with their own head canon on how SW should be.

I am glad that Luke Skywalker got a great character arc and a great send off. Some argued that he was killed unceremoniously but I don't see it that way. He went the way of Yoda and Obi Wan and has become one with the Force, his last act an ultimate sacrifice so that the Resistance will have a fighting chance.

Basically his character arc mirrors that of Yoda and Obi Wan where they are men haunted by their failures and ultimately finding hope again in the new generation.

Kylo Ren is a great villain, and he is what Anakin should have been. In fact he succeeded where Vader failed thus elevating his character to probably the first true Sith we have ever seen in the franchise where he is now only driven by pure rage instead of the cliche galactic domination.

Rey parentage reveal turns out to be nothing and that is a good thing. All this theory about her bloodline while fun ultimately is not necessary. While the Skywalkers are strong in the force it doesn't make it exclusive to them and it is important to establish that for the future of the franchise.

Time will tell that TLJ is the SW movie that really propels the franchise into bold new direction.

Even ESB wasn't universally loved back then due to its break from the usual sequel formula. The appreciation of ESB came later.

You summed up my thoughts exactly. You also hit the nail on the head about the fandom outcry. It wasn't their vision for how things would play out so therefore the entire film is a "travesty". The fandom cries about how "unoriginal" TFA was, but then they finally get a film that defies expectations and suddenly it doesn't feel like a Star Wars film. This is the sort of behavior you see from an insane person.

The film isn't perfect and I don't expect everyone to love it, but how about we look past our own fan fiction fantasies and objectively talk about the film. Cuz the fan bitching and moaning got old long ago.

 

[KBA]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Just felt like they made him renege on his catharsis he had from nearly killing his father in front of the Emperor. Square plug/round hole stuff that’s poor character writing for me that can’t easily be summed up as a brief moment of weakness.

 

[Kamandi]

Couldn't agree more. ALL of these "cinematic universes" are dumbed down for imbeciles. SW, Marvel, DC, Jurassic World....all of it. The days of even slightly cerebral mainstream films are long gone.

Have you noticed the website you're on? It's for people who collect figures from fantasy and sci-fi and comic books. Why are you here with us "imbeciles"? Go find a discussion about Friedrich Nietzsche somewhere since you're too good for all of this.

 

[Mandible]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

These arguments about Star Wars "fans" (and SW in general) are irrelevant:

It was a poorly written and executed film.

If you turned this exact script in at film school, you would have your ass kicked from here to yesterday. There are so many obvious narrative and structural problems with it, that it's mind-blowing how it made it to production.

 

[Ropen]

Well they can make it into whatever they want to, but in all reality whats left, all that EU, old PT, you guys bashed lucas for trashing the PT you got a new trilogy and now what? Miss SW? this film was an incoherent mess of who knows what, there was no motivation for anyone, if this is aimed towards a new audience be as it may but clearly the guy who made that video about SW merch and people not caring all the less lol, it was hard to care for anyone on this film. I honestly cannot find anything to buy from this movie other than getting the new final poster from disney my rewards store and thats about it.

Snoke proves my point. You have this guy who can inject connections between two force-beings, why, how, wtf? Then that happens and you get left with more questions than answers...


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[Asta]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

They even snuck in an homage to The Martrix.

 

[dan350zr]

I just got done seeing it and thought it was pretty good... Sure it had issues here and there and some cringe worthy moments... But I had fun watching it.... Hardcore fans will probably be disappointed because it wasn't how they wanted it to play out... I would probably rank it in the middle of all the Star Wars movies... I was disappointed with TFA because I went in wanting a more mature and darker version of Star Wars so I was disappointed when I first saw it... now few years later watching it on Blu-Ray I actually like it more... I think with The Last Jedi I knew what I was going to get based on TFA, so that allowed me to enjoy the movie more..

Both my nieces who are 11 and 12 loved it, my 17 year old nephew thought it was awesome... so even if older hardcore fans are disappointed the younger crowds will probably see it several times making it a success money wise.

I will say I'm glad I didn't buy that Captain Phasma PF given what I saw of her in the first two movies... What a disappointment there..

 

[noisetrigger]

Sounds like most of the critics in that article liked it. Critics back then never loved Star Wars. They were from a generation weened on different films, not cartoons. So most of there compliments are hard-earned. You have to consider the time period. Those are not bad reviews.

Movie-goers loved Empire. Right from the start. There was no "appreciation grew over time".

No one is saying ESB was a bad movie back then or that it was badly reviewed. The point I was trying to make was that it wasn't hailed as a masterpiece or a game changer back then and the reviews were decidedly lukewarm compared to how fans raved about it today. Heck I too did not like ESB when I first saw it. It was a movie where the hero actually lost and it turns out the baddie was his father and my young mind couldn't fathom that back then.

I actually loved ROTJ and considered that the best SW film ever for the longest time.

I even remember my film school lecturer telling me how he and his friends didn't like it back then cause it was such a downer of a movie after the high note of ANH but he learned to appreciate it later after ROTJ came out. He really hated ROTJ for being essentially a kids movie.

It is the same with BR. It was a flop when it came out but now it is hailed as a masterpiece. Personally I still think it is a boring movie that is overrated and the sequel is the far superior movie.

Time will ultimately decide whether TLJ will be hailed as the game changer that ESB was or another misstep like the PT.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Just got out, my god what a movie.

Only one scene I didn’t quite like, other than that this ticked all my boxes in what I was hoping for.

 

[dan350zr]

No one is saying ESB was a bad movie back then or that it was badly reviewed. The point I was trying to make was that it wasn't hailed as a masterpiece or a game changer back then and the reviews were decidedly lukewarm compared to how fans raved about it today. Heck I too did not like ESB when I first saw it. It was a movie where the hero actually lost and it turns out the baddie was his father and my young mind couldn't fathom that back then.

I actually loved ROTJ and considered that the best SW film ever for the longest time.

I even remember my film school lecturer telling me how he and his friends didn't like it back then cause it was such a downer of a movie after the high note of ANH but he learned to appreciate it later after ROTJ came out. He really hated ROTJ for being essentially a kids movie.

It is the same with BR. It was a flop when it came out but now it is hailed as a masterpiece. Personally I still think it is a boring movie that is overrated and the sequel is the far superior movie.

Time will ultimately decide whether TLJ will be hailed as the game changer that ESB was or another misstep like the PT.

George Lucas has stated several times that he made the Star Wars Universe for kids.... And Kids love the Star Wars movies, although when those kids grow up they expect Star Wars to grow up also in terms of Story and Content which can lead to disappointment. But if you can accept the movies for what they are you can have fun watching them even as an adult.

 

[matticus]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

My thoughts:

Wow, this sucked.

Major letdowns: Rey's parents, Snoke, NO KNIGHTS OF REN?!?!?!, The huge first moment of Luke and Rey destroyed by a "witty" joke. Read a rumor that a big battle on Luke's planet that Kylo and the Knights of Ren show up and a huge fight happens. Wow, could've used that. And I could care less, but Phasma. Build her up and gone in no time.

Things that did not make sense: Most of this movie. Why not just tell everyone on the ship of the plan to make it to the Crate planet? The whole Canto Bight story line was terrible and a huge waste of time.
Hux was acted terribly. Like mustache twirling bad. So you lead me to believe he's dead then he just shows up again?
The Rose character. Let's give her time over Luke and Leia? WHAT?
The ship chase. So the big a** destroyer is faster than the other smaller FO destroyers following it? Um, you don't just send fighters to blow them up? And didn't the bridge just get destroyed?
The Snoke ship torn in half. If the ship in Finn's section is all blown up around it, wouldn't space be sucking them out?
The big gun. Why does it need to be dragged to a certain spot? Wouldn't the big gun shoot pretty far?
How the hell did Rey get off Snoke's ship? WTF?
Joe Cameron taking on a dreadnought by myself? Yeah, okay. And his X-Wing cannot jump to lightspeed? Leia didn't jump to lightspeed and just sat there to be blown up?
So Rose saves Finn and says something heroic, yet opens the door for everyone else to be killed?
Leia's Force...Space pull. Now that's way out there.
Del Toro's character. Wha Wha What?
Yoda. REALLY? REALLY?!

The Good: Chewie.
Rey and Kylo "force connection". Totally bought into them being siblings.

No originality with too many ESB connections. I really didn't like TFA, but at least Abrams had some good action and gave us some mystery. Disney has made this into a cash cow and is simply for SJW's now. As a life long fan, PT sucked and TFA was the glimmer of hope I had. But TLJ was a dagger to the heart. I'm sure Luke will be a Force Ghost in the next one, but they wasted him and sold the movie on him just like Disney did with TFA and Han.

Got to be thinking giving Rian Johnson reins to a new trilogy is an awful idea now. Now with Ford, Carrie's passing and Luke probably just a Force Ghost now, we'll really get to see how well the new characters sell in Ep IX.

 

[Ropen]

Damn, they literally tearing this movie up with user review based websites.


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[ShadowX81]

Regardless of intention, they were never purely kids films. At least not the OT. They hit that magic spot of being universally appealing, and were able to be appreciated by the same people that watched them as kids as they grew up.

To say that star wars is not for grown fans but belongs to a new generation is frankly stupid. Star wars belongs to everyone. New and old fans alike. To say that we as older fans have been left behind by the series and that is ok is incredibly insulting.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Just got out.

What a piece of ****. **** me.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Just got out.

What a piece of ****. **** me.

your snoke theory was cut in half, hopefully this makes you less of an arrogant ass.

force vampire LMAOSMDH

 

[SNIKT1950]

your snoke theory was cut in half, hopefully this makes you less of an arrogant ass.

force vampire LMAOSMDH

Arrogant for having a theory better than the garbage they came up with? Lol sure.

 

[KBA]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Did anyone else find it kind of funny how increasingly inhabited Luke's island became throughout the movie?

First it's a barren island with just Luke.
Then it's a barren island with just Luke and porgs.
Then it's a barren island with just Luke, porgs, and big-***** sea giraffes.
Then it's a barren island with just Luke, porgs, big-***** sea giraffes, and a population of Stations from Bill and Ted 2.

Luke lives on clown car island.

And why did the sea giraffes have breasts and not udders? Is this a David Cronenberg movie?

A friend said the sea giraffes were representative of us in the cinema, right down to the slightly annoyed and disapproving expression on their faces. 'Yes, we will sit here, and we will allow ourselves to be milked, but we don't have to like it.'

And were porgs even name-checked in the movie? Why do I know what they are called? Why did we spend a whole scene on Chewie learning to have sympathy for them? Where was the payoff for that? I mean he allows them on the ship, fine. And later he has to slap one off the dash when he's doing an obligatory 'fly the Falcon through a tunnel' scene. But so is that the payoff? He learns sympathy for porgs so he can spend a second slapping one off the dash later? That's an arc, is it? What was the point of that porg sympathy scene? Did it add something to Chewie's character that we needed to know? Just one of many 'so where is this going, exactly?' moments.

Why did we have three scenes about having sympathy for three cute animal species? Like, with freeing the cat-horses. Is that a theme? I guess resistance=freedom=something ... But if that's why those scenes are there, as an allegory for the resistance and their ethos, then that's pretty heavy-handed. And those cat horses were rounded up that same NIGHT, I guarantee you. Those casino planet guys have spaceships and multiple kinds of electric stun weapons. We saw them use the stun weapons. Freeing those cat horses so they can run onto that nearby hill for ten minutes was utterly pointless. They inspired the child animal husbanders, I guess, but still ... Are the child animal husbanders going to be a huge part of the next movie? God, I hope not. We already have way too many characters. Anyway. The movie's a mess.

This post killed me. Too many good parts. Thank you for the lols.