Terminator Genisys (July 1st, 2015)

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

This conversation has me skull****ed. I can only imagine what it's like to read if you're not part of it.

It's like experiencing that near fatal fever Cameron had in Rome while dreaming this whole thing up 35+ years ago.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

My main takeaway from this thread: holy eff, time travel is confusing. Can't we just streamline it down to, like, taking a hot tub back ten years and winning the powerball? All of this **** about who fathered who and did this dude experience what this dude experienced, and is variable "A" tangentially related to variable "Y" squared, as it's related to the approximated value of level "hoo-ha" stuff makes my brain itch. LOOK AT WHAT YOU'VE DONE, CAMERON! WITH ALL YOUR INTELLIGENT SCI-FI "THESE ARE THE RULES SET IN PLACE;EVERY ACTION TAKEN IN THE PAST HAS RIPPLE EFFECTS IN THE FUTURE" HOOEY. SAME GOES FOR YOU RODDENBERRY!

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

Screw that noise batfan, i'm down for a DiFabio scripted Terminator movie.

It can't be any worse than T3/T4.

Unless i'm wrong and you're also saying that you're down for a DiFabio Terminator movie.

If so then please accept my apologies.

I'm making up a t-shirt that says:

"DiFabio Saved the Terminator Franchise"

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

I'd like to see a co-write.

A-dev, P. - & Jye for comic relief.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

My main takeaway from this thread: holy eff, time travel is confusing. Can't we just streamline it down to, like, taking a hot tub back ten years and winning the powerball? All of this **** about who fathered who and did this dude experience what this dude experienced, and is variable "A" tangentially related to variable "Y" squared, as it's related to the approximated value of level "hoo-ha" stuff makes my brain itch. LOOK AT WHAT YOU'VE DONE, CAMERON! WITH ALL YOUR INTELLIGENT SCI-FI "THESE ARE THE RULES SET IN PLACE;EVERY ACTION TAKEN IN THE PAST HAS RIPPLE EFFECTS IN THE FUTURE" HOOEY. SAME GOES FOR YOU RODDENBERRY!

It's not that confusing as long as it's understood that the future never happens the same exact way after each time jump. The father thing? Well, it's not really a conundrum. If Kyle Reese was born after Judgment Day occurred (during the war) and John Connor was born decades before Judgment Day occurred (before Skynet), then that means John and Kyle are atleast 20 years apart. Which means in the very first instance of Skynet sending a Terminator back in time, Kyle Reese couldn't have possibly been John Connor's dad. Someone else had to have been John's dad, before the war.

Some where along the line, Kyle Reese ****ed up the time continuum by getting emo and ****ing Sarah. In a sense, Kyle Reese terminates that original John Connor. The thing that really makes this whole time travel thing trippy is, essentially that second John Connor and second Skynet are continually creating themselves. If Skynet wins, it won't exist as it is (Future Skynet) because it offed Sarah and Sarah couldn't kill Terminator which would have led to future Skynet. If John Connor wins, he won't exist as his future self, i.e. he won't become a great military leader/general and won't meet Reese. HELL, Kyle Reese won't even ****ing exist because if Judgment Day doesn't happen, BAM, ain't no meeting Kyle Reese because he was never born.





The whole thing is moot though. You could easily say ALL the films suck because it's made clear that in each story, John Connor is the one reacting to Skynet who has already sent a Terminator back in time. Considering John Connor never goes Marty McFly and doesn't just disappear out of existence, WHY do any of these stories matter? Why would John Connor care if he doesn't exist in a different time line? It doesn't effect him. Hell, Skynet is a supercomputer. What the **** does it care if it exists somewhere else and wins when, in it's current mind, it's dead and lost? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

I'd like to see a co-write.

A-dev, P. - & Jye for comic relief.

I think there'd be some conflict of interest with P. looking to overwrite T2 and me, Difabio and Jye looking to preserve it. Actually I don't think P. would be on board at all, he would probably subscribe to what Kara and Khev have been arguing today, that T1 is entirely self-contained and closes itself. No further films possible.

It's not that confusing as long as it's understood that the future never happens the same exact way after each time jump. The father thing? Well, it's not really a conundrum. If Kyle Reese was born after Judgment Day occurred (during the war) and John Connor was born decades before Judgment Day occurred (before Skynet), then that means John and Kyle are atleast 20 years apart. Which means in the very first instance of Skynet sending a Terminator back in time, Kyle Reese couldn't have possibly been John Connor's dad. Someone else had to have been John's dad, before the war.

In a way the name John Connor becomes a title rather than a name. Since the original John ceases to exist, and an entirely different man is born but is nevertheless given that name. I really do like that idea.

The Kyle Reese born John Connor's wouldn't know anything about the original John, they would assume what is was always so.

 

[The Skull]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

This conversation has me skull****ed. I can only imagine what it's like to read if you're not part of it.

 

[Khev]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

That's what I've been saying this whole time. That's why T2 can happen. If T1 can happen with the weird "what came first, the John Connor or the Kyle Reese" problem, then T2 is valid.


This is how I see it,



Timeline 1

- (hypothetically) Sarah Connor gets pissed that she's stood up by her boyfriend. She goes off to that pizza place or whatever, and maybe, by fate, goes to Tech Noir. She finds some dude and has a one night stand with him. She gets knocked up and has a son, John Connor. Through a variety of reasons and circumstances, she becomes disgustingly militant. That passes on to John. While this is happening, Skynet is invented by Cyberdyne Systems. It becomes self aware and Judgment Day happens. John is one of the survivors, he's sent to those extermination camps/prisons where he has to dispose of fellow humans. There he meets Kyle Reese, a fellow prisoner. John's background allows him to break out of the camps and rally a rag tag resistance that includes Reese. Decades of fighting ensues. John and his team find out that Skynet sent a Terminator back in time as a last ditch effort to defeat Connor. Connor needs a volunteer to go back in time, Kyle Reese who wants a chance at "meeting the legend" and some soldier named Sumner (Deleted Scene from T1) volunteer and go back in time. John gives Reese and Sumner a photo so they have a face to the name. After decades of fighting, the resistance storms Skynet's compound, smashes it's defense grid and win. John sends Reese and Sumner back.


Timeline 2


- The Terminator, Reese and Sumner arrive in 1984. Sumner dies when he's fused to objects in the alley way(Deleted Scene from T1). Sarah Connor gets pissed that she's stood up by her boyfriend. She goes off to that pizza place then sees the Sarah Connor killings. She goes to Tech Noir after being stalked by Reese. It plays out like the film shows. Sarah and Kyle have sex, Kyle dies, the Terminator gets crushed, etc. Sarah goes into hiding, training John. Judgment Day happens, John has extensive knowledge on the war now thanks to Reese circumventing the time line and becoming his father. Now when he meets Reese, he doesn't see him as a buddy, but as his dad. Now he HAS to send Kyle back to exist as his current self. They win the war, yadda, yadda, yadda, Kyle Reese is sent back in time thinking he volunteered. Since Connor doesn't know about Sumner, there's no point in sending him too.

Timeline 3


- The Terminator film as we know it. The Terminator and Reese arrive in 1984. Sarah Connor gets pissed that she's stood up by her boyfriend. She goes off to that pizza place then sees the Sarah Connor killings. She goes to Tech Noir after being stalked by Reese. It plays out like the film shows. Sarah and Kyle have sex, Kyle dies, the Terminator gets crushed, etc. Cyberdyne finds the arm and chip from the Terminator. This expedites the development of Skynet. Miles Dyson is brought on board. Sarah goes into hiding and trains John to be a great "military leader". She then tries to blow up a computer factory and is sent to Pescadero. Since she knows Judgment Day is two years away thanks to Kyle, she escapes, takes John back (against his will) and they go into hiding. Judgment Day happens. John has extensive knowledge on the war now thanks to Reese circumventing the time line and becoming his father. Skynet is even more advanced than prior iterations of Skynet thanks to the arm and the chip from the Terminator. Now when Connor meets Reese, he doesn't see him as a buddy, but as his dad. Now he HAS to send Kyle back to exist as his current self. Likewise, Skynet HAS to send the Terminator back to exist in it's current state. Now that it's more advanced, the T-1000 is the newest/latest prototype and it sends it back to 1995 to kill a young John Connor, just in case the T-800 fails to kill Sarah. John finds out about this new development. They win the war, yadda, yadda, yadda, Kyle Reese is sent back time thinking he volunteered. Since John Connor never knew about the T-1000 until the last minute, he and his men send back a reprogrammed Terminator to protect him. So now, Skynet just doesn't send the T-800 back, but a T-1000 as well (for added measures). Likewise, John just doesn't send Reese back, he sends the last ditch, reprogrammed T-800 back as well.

- Terminator 2 as we know it. Plays out like in the movie. Now that the T-800 and T-1000 are thrown into the mix, this is literally the FINAL battle. Now that Sarah and John have the reprogrammed T-800, they know who is responsible for Judgement Day. If the T-1000 and T-800 weren't sent back, Sarah would have still escaped Pescadero, found John and hid. Since the reprogrammed T-800 intervened, they're able to destroy Cyberdyne Systems and all of it's research, Skynet no longer exists. The End.

Okay a few things.

1. Nice job filling in blanks. Probably about as good a job as you can do. I'll even say that as far as filmed footage and so forth it can make T1 and T2 jive together if you want them to.

2. However the opening text of T1 exists outside of space and time and any and all timelines. It stated that the final battle took place in 1984. So everything after that is moot.

3. Getting back to your breakdown, something that always seemed off to me is that I would assume that the T800, Reese, and then the T1000 and reprogrammed T800 would have all gone through the time displacement machine all very shortly after one another. Don't you picture the capture and reprogramming of a mind-blowingly advanced T800 to be somewhat of a lengthy process? Capturing it (without damaging it AT ALL) and then subduing it to the point of studying and reprogramming it. Even if they did stumble on a dormant assembly line and didn't have to fight it. Do you see that all being done in mere minutes? Did they have the good T800 in their back pocket unbeknownst to Reese all along in case Skynet got crafty and sent something more advanced? I'm just curious what your take on that is.

4. Once more, good job. That was a fun read. Seriously.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

Khev first to buy the t-shirt.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

3. Getting back to your breakdown, something that always seemed off to me is that I would assume that the T800, Reese, and then the T1000 and reprogrammed T800 would have all gone through the time displacement machine all very shortly after one another. Don't you picture the capture and reprogramming of a mind-blowingly advanced T800 to be somewhat of a lengthy process? Capturing it (without damaging it AT ALL) and then subduing it to the point of studying and reprogramming it. Even if they did stumble on a dormant assembly line and didn't have to fight it. Do you see that all being done in mere minutes? Did they have the good T800 in their back pocket unbeknownst to Reese all along in case Skynet got crafty and sent something more advanced? I'm just curious what your take on that is.

Once more, good job. That was a fun read. Seriously.

Thanks.

The reprogrammed T-800? Hmm. Judging by T2's deleted scene, it shouldn't be too time consuming. Couldn't the resistance have found one of the infantry T-800's on the battlefield way before Skynet's defeat, captured it's chip and reprogram it (just the chip), then put it into any infiltrator body they wanted? That's what I think happened. They had an existing chip from one of the endoskeleton's on the battle field, scrapped the body, took the chip, rewrote the information on it (to protect John Connor). Then when they got to Skynet's complex, they sent Reese back, went to the cold storage room and put the chip inside the new 101 body. That would explain the shaved, spiked hair the T-800 sports in T2. The resistance had to shave it to access the chip. Or maybe like you said, they had one at the ready unbeknownst to Reese. A better question would be, how does John know how to, A. use the time displacement equipment, B. know that Skynet sent Terminators back in time?


This is how it all went down originally in T2's prologue (if Cameron had an unlimited budget with Carolco pictures),


Extended future war - Battlefield/Defeat of Skynet (Future war with more Hunter Killers)
T1 infiltrator Franco Columbu Infiltrator
Rotten faced CSM model from prolonged war

Time Displacement Complex (Kyle Reese volunteers, asks John if he knew he would, John says yes, John tells the rest of the resistance that Reese is his father)

Cold storage facility(John Connor says there's one more thing to do, they go past racks and racks of different CSMs until they're at the 101 rack)




The thing I don't get is, Skynet clearly sends the T-800 and T-1000 back first. John sends Reese and the reprogrammed Terminator last. If John is late to the party . . . and still exists, why does it even matter if he sends Reese and the Terminator back to protect himself and his mom? Who cares? Isn't there some hypothetical alternate reality where the T-800 and T-1000 succeed in their mission since John sends Reese and the Terminator through after Skynet is done? We're dealing with time travel here. If it takes them a minute to send Reese back, can't anything happen in that minute? What does future John have to lose by not sending a protector back? I mean, it's not like the T-800 and T-1000 disappeared when Cyberdyne was destroyed or lost their files in their head (about Dyson and Judgment Day). It's not like John Connor fades away Marty McFly style. Why does this "final battle" matter in any of the films?

In a way the name John Connor becomes a title rather than a name. Since the original John ceases to exist, and an entirely different man is born but is nevertheless given that name. I really do like that idea.

Yup, and that messiah like characterization where he knows what is going to happen because it was told to him because of other John Connors.

The interesting thing about T2 though is that, originally, the extended Future Prologue scene that would have shown Skynet's defeat, Kyle Reese and the reprogrammed Terminator being sent back would have had a John Connor that had already experienced the events of T2. That is nuts to me. If he already experienced it, then how did Judgment Day happen in his original life time? Unless he experienced the T-1000 in his youth without the reprogrammed T-800 and maybe the T-1000 killed his mom? Maybe that possessed him to send a reprogrammed T-800 to his youth? To help his younger self and save his mom?

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

My head ****ing hurts, screw this, i'm watching Conan the Barbarian tonight.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

My head ****ing hurts, screw this, i'm watching Conan the Barbarian tonight.

If you think that's bad, try reading (and understanding this ****). I quit after the first couple of paragraphs.



https://www.mjyoung.net/time/terminat.html

 

[a-dev]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

The interesting thing about T2 though is that, originally, the extended Future Prologue scene that would have shown Skynet's defeat, Kyle Reese and the reprogrammed Terminator being sent back would have had a John Connor that had already experienced the events of T2. That is nuts to me. If he already experienced it, then how did Judgment Day happen in his original life time? Unless he experienced the T-1000 in his youth without the reprogrammed T-800 and maybe the T-1000 killed his mom? Maybe that possessed him to send a reprogrammed T-800 to his youth? To help his younger self and save his mom?

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

I think there'd be some conflict of interest with P. looking to overwrite T2 and me, Difabio and Jye looking to preserve it. Actually I don't think P. would be on board at all, he would probably subscribe to what Kara and Khev have been arguing today, that T1 is entirely self-contained and closes itself. No further films possible.

Ehh.. it'd be funny to watch you guys do the Larry, Moe & Curly routine at least.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

The thing I don't get is, Skynet clearly sends the T-800 and T-1000 back first. John sends Reese and the reprogrammed Terminator last. If John is late to the party . . . and still exists, why does it even matter if he sends Reese and the Terminator back to protect himself and his mom? Who cares? Isn't there some hypothetical alternate reality where the T-800 and T-1000 succeed in their mission since John sends Reese and the Terminator through after Skynet is done? We're dealing with time travel here. If it takes them a minute to send Reese back, can't anything happen in that minute? What does future John have to lose by not sending a protector back? I mean, it's not like the T-800 and T-1000 disappeared when Cyberdyne was destroyed or lost their files in their head (about Dyson and Judgment Day). It's not like John Connor fades away Marty McFly style. Why does this "final battle" matter in any of the films?

This is why I've always wondered why not just send the T1000 back to intercept John sending Reese through. Skynet wins.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

This is why I've always wondered why not just send the T1000 back to intercept John sending Reese through. Skynet wins.

Considering T-1000 was autonomous, I always wondered why it followed Skynet commands anyway. It was learning just like the T-800, even more so. Why didn't it just think, "eh, who gives a **** about John Connor" and do it's own thing?

Cameron and Bill Wisher said the T-1000 was Skynet's last ditch effort to save itself, and that even Skynet feared the T-1000 prototype. If that's the case, it might have been interesting if T-1000 went AWOL.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

Considering T-1000 was autonomous, I always wondered why it followed Skynet commands anyway. It was learning just like the T-800, even more so. Why didn't it just think, "eh, who gives a **** about John Connor" and do it's own thing?

Cameron and Bill Wisher said the T-1000 was Skynet's last ditch effort to save itself, and that even Skynet feared the T-1000 prototype. If that's the case, it might have been interesting if T-1000 went AWOL.

It would've. It definitely gave a headscratcher to T3. The TX seemed more like backward technology with the mimetic polyalloy around the endo when that wasn't even necessary for the T1000.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

If you think that's bad, try reading (and understanding this ****). I quit after the first couple of paragraphs.



https://www.mjyoung.net/time/terminat.html

Considering T-1000 was autonomous, I always wondered why it followed Skynet commands anyway. It was learning just like the T-800, even more so. Why didn't it just think, "eh, who gives a **** about John Connor" and do it's own thing?

Cameron and Bill Wisher said the T-1000 was Skynet's last ditch effort to save itself, and that even Skynet feared the T-1000 prototype. If that's the case, it might have been interesting if T-1000 went AWOL.

cut to T1000 mowing the lawn.

 

[Indiana]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

In the video game Dawn of Fate, (fun little game) it explains that John and Kyle get to this complex inside Skynet's main base, and discover the first T-800 sent through. John reasons it is the time machine and the complex they are in is somehow resistant to time "distortions" or whatever. It doesn't explain anything about the T2 terminators, but I think it is a good jumping off point.

I have always liked the thought that there is only one timeline, it is a paradox, and John is the only one to really realize it. And he has accepted it since all he and his mother could do never stopped it. + T3 never would've happened, which is cool with me.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: Terminator: Genesis (July 1st, 2015)

I'm scrolling past all this nerd-fu. You guys are analyzing it too much. Jeff Daniels hit the nail on the head in Looper.

'This time travel crap, just fries your brain like a egg.'