The Amazing Spider Man 2 (2014)

[Silrian]

Naaa if Harry was gonna be Venom they would've done it.

Considering how many people become Venom and how frustrated people were about the last version, it seems weird that they didn't utilise him in two movies?

God I wish this film had been Chris Cooper flying around on a glider throwing pumpkins.

 

[jye4ever]

Naaa if Harry was gonna be Venom they would've done it.

Considering how many people become Venom and how frustrated people were about the last version, it seems weird that they didn't utilise him in two movies?

God I wish this film had been Chris Cooper flying around on a glider throwing pumpkins.

This would've been better.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Loool, Uncanny that signature dude! Brilliant.

Oooh I hope DoFP spawns some great Fassbender memes.

Thanks a lot

 

[Silrian]

Where did you get that picture of MagFassbender!? I can't recall that from trailers.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Google image. Not sure the source

 

[Silrian]

Righto, thanks!

 

[GasparZizou]

Electro in this movie felt a pointless inclusion from a writing point of view. Or at least it felt too much combined with the fact that Harry needed an entire setup as well.

Well it wasn't pointless, both served a purpose and in fact I felt the motivations for Electro were far more effective.

I don't think the Marvel VS DC thing comes from either side wanting the other to fail.

It seems to me it's more frustration that Marvel has proved able to adapt anything to the screen where as DC seems incapable(or at very least struggles big time) even with a template to follow right in front of them and more universally recognized properties. Who in the whole world, in any country, hasn't heard of Superman? So why did his movie do worse than Thor?

What Thor movie? Because MoS did WAY better than ANY origin story in the Marvel universe and Batman Begins...

Most people in the casual audience actually dislike Superman, they either think he's boring or he's overpowered, they're wrong of course but that's what they think, so MoS's box office is actually quite a deed.

 

[Silrian]

Lol, a movie reviewer points to the incredible coincidence that

Spoiler

the guy who gets bitten by a radio-active spider by complete and utter accident (they can't retcon that bit from ASM1), happens to be the son of the person who experimented with them and used his own blood which was the only blood that worked.

Isn't that like... just a bit too coincidental?

 

[krec9]

Saw it twice now I actually like MOS over this I dunno if they will ever get a spidey film right.

 

[a-dev]

Lol, a movie reviewer points to the incredible coincidence that

Spoiler

the guy who gets bitten by a radio-active spider by complete and utter accident (they can't retcon that bit from ASM1), happens to be the son of the person who experimented with them and used his own blood which was the only blood that worked.

Isn't that like... just a bit too coincidental?

Yeah. While it eliminates the question that remained in Raimi's films* it requires a big coincidence in the new films.

*What if someone else was bitten by the same spiders too? In fact, when Spiderman turned up, why wasn't the spider venom suspected (they knew one of their spiders had gone missing) and deliberately used in other human subjects?

 

[JAWS]

Actually no, my opinion of what you summed up is largely the same. And Lois Lane was forced in Man of STeel too, I agree.

The problem is you mention Zod next to Harry but Zod was THE villain of Man of Steel. Any conflict in the entire film was basically his to dominate character-wise except for one battle scene with Faora. To boot, Faora is nothing but a drone of Zod, she basically represents his beliefs and therefor extends Zod's character development vicariously. She's his soldier under his regime. Harry in ASM2? Not so much. Neither of any of those things. Goblin and Electro received an almost equal treatment in character setup, that had absolutely NOTHING to do with each other except that Harry at some point is like 'yow dude help me out man. This spiderguy sucks!' and the result is that neither got enough time to deal with their arc in a good way. That is to say Electro got the better end of the deal imo because his arc stands on its own, but Harry had only one, ONE scene with his father (the cause of both his physical and mental status)? What the frig? ONE scene!? Really?

It's completely incomparable. Zod was very well established in Man of Steel and he had at the very least half the film to do it. Harry has at best a fourth of this film dedicated to him and that's saying it kindly. I never compared the villains in one to the other. Only reason I mentioned man of steel was because that film has the tonal issue once, at the end, that ASM2 has the entire film through.

Also it's factually incorrect Norman threw Harry away, on the contrary, he hopes Harry can live on where he couldn't. Nothing else is said except that Norman clearly isn't a cool father.

And there's nothing else to set him up. There's nothing that shows what kindof of a dude Harry is. Zod has freakin 18 minutes, that Krypton prologue is 18 freakin minutes to establish his entire origin and then he has the entire second act of the entire film. Harry gets one setup scene in a film he shares with what is considered the MAIN villain, Electro, who ALSO needs an entirely new setup.

Come on man, it's completely incomparable. ASM2 juggled way too many things, within a tonally inconsistent structure. Also 'tone' is not whether good or bad stuff happens, it's not ups and downs in situations the character finds himself in, it's the vibe of the film and how it engages its characters, how it lets them respond to ups and downs. Iron Man is a lighthearted tone even though some super heavy **** goes down in that film. Winter Soldier is a dramatic tone but still has plenty of solid lighter moments that it weaves in perfectly. But it's consistent in how it approaches everything. Same with most CB movies these days. Whether I liked them or not, most CB movies these days have quit a solid consistency in their approach.

But ASM2 was an indescribable mess from a directing point of view.

Ah well, I'll read any replies and then probably get out this thread. I've had my say anyway. No need to be repetitive.

It's all about quality not quantity. Sure Zod may have been in the first 15 min... but I did not care about his character one way or the other. I got more out of Harry Screaming "I need you, I know what it is like to be thrown away" then I ever did... "I am doing this for my people"

Harry was not the main villain but yet what little time he was there had a bit more impact then Zod did in the whole last hour of Superman. Zod may have been set up but it was just repeating the same thing over and over.

Not saying that Harry was perfect in any way. His friendship with Peter was forced but I had no problem excepting that they had a friendship before he was sent away.


But hey the movie did not do it for you just as MOS did not do it for me. Oh well. Here is too hoping that both films get a better sequel so we are all happy

 

[Deckard]

Yeah. While it eliminates the question that remained in Raimi's films* it requires a big coincidence in the new films.

*What if someone else was bitten by the same spiders too? In fact, when Spiderman turned up, why wasn't the spider venom suspected (they knew one of their spiders had gone missing) and deliberately used in other human subjects?

It's not really a coincidence at all. He's investigating his father's work which leads him to OSCORP. All that physically remains there of his father's contributions are those Spiders which they use to manufacture the web stuff. There are hundreds of those spiders and one bites him. It's a lot less coincidental than a field trip with a single magic loose spider that never got anyone else. It's also why he's not really stealing his web shooters from OSCORP. His father is the guy that contributed the web fluid, he takes his father's invention to the next level with the shooters.

 

[Silrian]

Okay Jaws that is fine! To me it's Zod that got to me pretty hardcore, mainly because Shannon is a brilliant actor imo.

That said Harry got to me as well, I like DeHaan too, I just feel he should've had the whole film, he should've been the main character. Just him and a better Rhino setting up the sinister six would've been so much better imo.

But yeah I hope the sequels are better of course. Although I have zero expectations for this franchise anymore. (Which is why I'll be leaving this thread alone after this.)

Obviously that makes two of us Krec9!

 

[a-dev]

It's not really a coincidence at all. He's investigating his father's work which leads him to OSCORP. All that physically remains there of his father's contributions are those Spiders which they use to manufacture the web stuff. There are hundreds of those spiders and one bites him. It's a lot less coincidental than a field trip with a single magic loose spider that never got anyone else. It's also why he's not really stealing his web shooters from OSCORP. His father is the guy that contributed the web fluid, he takes his father's invention to the next level with the shooters.

........Do you mind? I'm trying to punch holes in these films. Let me be

 

[DiFabio]

I think the fact that Richard Parker is working on spiders in the first place is lame. It makes the whole spider bite thing with Peter less interesting and special.

Peter Parker in the comics and in the Raimi films is an everyman. By happenstance, that spider bit HIM. He doesn't have some super secret parents that were devising ultra top secret "Spider-Man and Sinister 6 team" biological weapons. He was just an ordinary orphan kid who lived with his aunt and uncle in queens. All this Oscorp garbage makes Peter/Spider-Man less special in my opinion. Hell, it's not just Spider-Man now either, it's all of his villains! Why is Lizard Lizard? Thanks to Parker's research and Oscorp. Why is Electro Electro? Thanks to Oscorp. Why is Harry the Green Goblin? His daddy and Oscorp. Now Ock, Vulture, Kraven, Mysterio and/or Chameleon? Oscorp, Oscorp, Oscorp.

For me, I always thought these characters were extraordinary enough. I liked the fact that Peter was just an ordinary kid that was gifted by a chance spider bite. I liked when Superman was just baby Kal-El, rocketed to our planet. But nah, now they have to have "special blood" or some contrived genetic codex ********. It's lame. I think part of the appeal with Spider-Man, particularly with kids is that anyone could have been under that mask. Well, not now. Only Peter Parker with his daddy's special blood and spiders can be Spider-Man.

 

[jye4ever]

If it wasn't for Oscorp Uncle Ben would still be alive.

 

[DiFabio]

Yup. That spider blood causes cravings to chocolate milk.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Saw it twice now I actually like MOS over this I dunno if they will ever get a spidey film right.

I thought you liked it, or perhaps I'm confusing you with another

It's not really a coincidence at all. He's investigating his father's work which leads him to OSCORP. All that physically remains there of his father's contributions are those Spiders which they use to manufacture the web stuff. There are hundreds of those spiders and one bites him. It's a lot less coincidental than a field trip with a single magic loose spider that never got anyone else. It's also why he's not really stealing his web shooters from OSCORP. His father is the guy that contributed the web fluid, he takes his father's invention to the next level with the shooters.

That's true, if he wasn't looking into his Fathers work he would t have been there at all. The only coincidence is that he got bitten when he was the only one who was able to survive it relatively unscathed

 

[Deckard]

I think the fact that Richard Parker is working on spiders in the first place is lame. It makes the whole spider bite thing with Peter less interesting and special.

Peter Parker in the comics and in the Raimi films is an everyman. By happenstance, that spider bit HIM. He doesn't have some super secret parents that were devising ultra top secret "Spider-Man and Sinister 6 team" biological weapons. He was just an ordinary orphan kid who lived with his aunt and uncle in queens. All this Oscorp garbage makes Peter/Spider-Man less special in my opinion. Hell, it's not just Spider-Man now either, it's all of his villains! Why is Lizard Lizard? Thanks to Parker's research and Oscorp. Why is Electro Electro? Thanks to Oscorp. Why is Harry the Green Goblin? His daddy and Oscorp. Now Ock, Vulture, Kraven, Mysterio and/or Chameleon? Oscorp, Oscorp, Oscorp.

For me, I always thought these characters were extraordinary enough. I liked the fact that Peter was just an ordinary kid that was gifted by a chance spider bite. I liked when Superman was just baby Kal-El, rocketed to our planet. But nah, now they have to have "special blood" or some contrived genetic codex ********. It's lame. I think part of the appeal with Spider-Man, particularly with kids is that anyone could have been under that mask. Well, not now. Only Peter Parker with his daddy's special blood and spiders can be Spider-Man.

I like it. It gives him a connection to his father. Spiderman was never about it being anyone under the mask, he isn't Nolan's Batman.

His father was working on curing diseases, OSCORP made the Sinister Six stuff, not Richard Parker. He may have contributed to the Venom suit, but that was also out of trying to find a cure for cancer. His father was a great scientist and he looks up to him.

OSCORP is responsible for everything is a problem? Are you at all familiar with the Marvel Universe? You realize most of the characters are a result of trying to replicate the Captain America SS Serum right? Even Raimi's Spiderman hinted at that being Goblin's origin trying to develop super soldiers for the military.

 

[jye4ever]

What you're saying is all technically correct Deckard, and some might like it this way.

But it does change the PP/SM character and it even changed the focus away from Ben's death lesson onto Capt Stacey and to an extent PP father.

That being said, even with PP/SM no longer being that everyman teen, he still has great power and his responsibility is to now protect his fathers work from getting into the wrong hands.

So all this Oscorp stuff is not all at a lost.

I hope the directors cut removes Zimmer's Boyfriend (German Doctor), his scenes were pointless.