The Batman - Part II (October 3rd, 2025)

[BigWayne]

I think any move away from the grounding in reality theme here is going to have to start with the batman character first.

At some point, like any other superhero, the pattinson batman is going to have to do something physically extraordinary, and there’s either going to have to be a technical reason why he can do it, or a good deal more muscle to make it somewhat believable. Personally, I’d much prefer the latter, but if they’re going to stick with (IMO) a “skinny batman”, then he’ll no doubt have some sort of gadget that will have to be explained.

If they ultimately present a batman that is physically dominating, then you can have villains that are more fantastical that he can match up with. If not, then it’s just his “big brain” and gadgets, all of which will take more time explaining.

I just don’t see this pattinson batman winning a fight against Tom Hardy’s Bane. I hope that changes.

 

[Luisenigma1]

I think any move away from the grounding in reality theme here is going to have to start with the batman character first.

At some point, like any other superhero, the pattinson batman is going to have to do something physically extraordinary, and there’s either going to have to be a technical reason why he can do it, or a good deal more muscle to make it somewhat believable. Personally, I’d much prefer the latter, but if they’re going to stick with (IMO) a “skinny batman”, then he’ll no doubt have some sort of gadget that will have to be explained.

If they ultimately present a batman that is physically dominating, then you can have villains that are more fantastical that he can match up with. If not, then it’s just his “big brain” and gadgets, all of which will take more time explaining.

I just don’t see this pattinson batman winning a fight against Tom Hardy’s Bane. I hope that changes.

The funny thing is even if it was Tom Hardy's Bane or Comic Venom fuelled Bane he will still get his back broken. Lol no seriously only way I imagine it is Pattinson puts on more muscle for The Batman 2. I also wouldn't say his body type in the first is skinny but more athletic like a track racer or swimmer. Which works for young Bats in his second year. But if we go into year 4-5 depending how far the second film is then yeah he would need to bulk up a bit and that goes for how much his Batsuit changes also.

 

[sj2106]

Yeah I dunno. I liked The Batman a lot it’s just I’m personally kind of over the idea of grounding Batman in reality. You can still do a darker take on the character and keep it more comic book style.

Something similar to the Arkham universe might be best. Certainly dark but not really grounded in reality.

 

[batfan08]

I’ll be honest, I don’t really see The Batman as needing to be “grounded.” It’s “realistic,” but it’s also arguably one of the greatest depictions of comic book Batman we’ve seen put to screen. It has the same DNA as a Year One or a Long Halloween, but sometimes I feel like people forget that Year One wasn’t some insulated graphic novel. It was a story arc in Batman #404-407.

I think, while unlikely, it would be bold of Matt Reeves to introduce the surrealist Gotham and its rogues to viewers as he introduces them to Batman, himself. Don’t tell people to expect it, don’t even tell them to understand it: tell them “it’s here whether you like it or not and now you have to try and force your rational mind to comprehend what it all means.” Arguably my all-time favorite Batman comic is Gotham Central, specifically because Brubaker and Rucka highlight that dichotomy. “What’s it mean to be a beat cop or a detective in Gotham City?”

One minute, you’re responding to a simple domestic disturbance; the next, Mr. Freeze is freezing your partner solid and pushing his fragile husk down a flight of stairs. I like the logic of rational Batman. Especially a Batman who hasn’t met Superman, yet, and I like the idea of a guy who’s trained his mind to explain everything slowly coming to realize that he can’t. With that in mind, I feel like the storytelling potential of Battinson coming face to face with a shapeshifting clay man is infinitely more interesting than him facing off with psychotic Lon Chaney.

Stephen King had a book HBO adapted to a series a few years ago called The Outsider, where a detective has to try and track down a shapeshifter, but doing that requires him to challenge all his preconceptions of what he knows vs. what he thinks he knows. Imagine Battinson, already doubting himself after being lead on a wild goose chase by The Riddler and missing his master plan, coming face to face with a threat that makes him question his own reality. How do you catch a killer who can be anyone, anywhere, at any time and how do you stop him when he physically outmatches you in every way?

I feel like finding a way to make that play within the framework they created would be far more challenging and, ultimately, creatively rewarding than being like “how can we make this work like you’d see it on the news?” If that were the case, there’d be no supervillains. Everybody would either be a master thief, a serial killer, a terrorist, or a mass shooter.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Everybody would either be a master thief, a serial killer, a terrorist, or a mass shooter.

I agree with alot of what you said. It's a really delicate balance though, so often done wrong.

In regards to that last line -- there's nothing wrong with those base examples, but you can still be a larger-than-life villain without crossing into the impossible -- in the end, Hans Gruber was just a thief, so was Goldfinger, Ledger Joker was just an anarchist with a sick sense of humor -- it's all in how its played and how big their impact is on society.

 

[batfan08]

I agree with alot of what you said. It's a really delicate balance though, so often done wrong.

In regards to that last line -- there's nothing wrong with those base examples, but you can still be a larger-than-life villain without crossing into the impossible -- in the end, Hans Gruber was just a thief, so was Goldfinger, Ledger Joker was just an anarchist with a sick sense of humor -- it's all in how its played and how big their impact is on society.

I absolutely agree with that in an isolated sense, but, when you look at the broader spectrum of superhero fatigue, I think it’s where you run into problems because whatever you do will invite comparisons. How do you do a Joker that hits those same beats as Ledger without invariably paling in comparison to him? How do you have your next two villains be serial killers with their own gimmick (like Riddler’s) without it seeming one-note and derivative?

I feel like you start to slowly betray the core identity of comic books when you reduce all these colorful villains to copy & pasted “gritty” archetypes.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I absolutely agree with that in an isolated sense, but, when you look at the broader spectrum of superhero fatigue, I think it’s where you run into problems because whatever you do will invite comparisons. How do you do a Joker that hits those same beats as Ledger without invariably paling in comparison to him? How do you have your next two villains be serial killers with their own gimmick (like Riddler’s) without it seeming one-note and derivative?

I feel like you start to slowly betray the core identity of comic books when you reduce all these colorful villains to copy & pasted “gritty” archetypes.

Oh no, I agree. I wouldn't go "serial killer" for the next The Batman villain -- I might go just "criminal with a master plan" type. Or maybe "vengeful terrorist", which might work for Freeze -- though if you keep his interest in diamonds (ice), he's also part thief.

You certainly can't do Ledger Joker (Anarchist) again -- you need to "reinvent" the character wholly much like they did going from Nicholson's version to Ledger's. The key there was grounding Ledger's Joker as an Anarchist. Ledger is still larger-than-life, but you can justify where he gets his clothes, his gimmicks, his strength, etc. He's not improbable. Whereas, with Jack, I always wondered where he got those wonderful clothes. Or how his face healed into a grin virtually overnight, or who makes his unique toys, etc...

 

[Chopper Face]

Oh no, I agree. I wouldn't go "serial killer" for the next The Batman villain -- I might go just "criminal with a master plan" type. Or maybe "vengeful terrorist", which might work for Freeze -- though if you keep his interest in diamonds (ice), he's also part thief.

You certainly can't do Ledger Joker (Anarchist) again -- you need to "reinvent" the character wholly much like they did going from Nicholson's version to Ledger's. The key there was grounding Ledger's Joker as an Anarchist. Ledger is still larger-than-life, but you can justify where he gets his clothes, his gimmicks, his strength, etc. He's not improbable. Whereas, with Jack, I always wondered where he got those wonderful clothes. Or how his face healed into a grin virtually overnight, or who makes his unique toys, etc...

I hope they’re saving Joker up for an Arkham Asylum: A Serious House On Serious Earth type story. Battinson and Joker have already had a run/in or two and are developing a twisted relationship with Joker behind bars/glass.

Batman can spend another film or two rounding up more of Gotham’s most deranged and then Joker can take over the Asylum and use everything he’s extracted from his interactions with Batman to psychologically torment him just for his amusement.
Continue the Joker’s portrayal evolution from the eccentric crime boss, to master strategist anarchist, to… bling king, emotionally absusive boyfriend (whatever Leto was,) to the symptom of an non-compassionate, cruel and unjust society, to essentially becoming the devil himself, sending other wave of demented beings after his nemesis.

 

[Wor-Gar]

What is Joker's goal in the comics?

 

[jye4ever]

What is Joker's goal in the comics?

To irritate darthkostis-victor to no end.

 

[jye4ever]

batfan08 no need for fancy words and complex juxtapositions just come out and say it you want Batman to fight Darkseid in The Batman II.

It’s ok Wor-Gar won’t get mad.

 

[Chopper Face]

What is Joker's goal in the comics?

In my mind, I guess if you strip away all the schemes, elaborate plans, gimmicky mass attacks on Gotham with laughing toxin, clown fish, circus freakery, and behind the constant criminality and turf-warring with the other crime lords of Gotham, I think his goal is to prove that no man’s morality is infallible.

Batman is his greatest project because Batman refuses to kill and essentially possesses the strongest will in their world. Joker just wants to break that will.

Joker is entirely fixated with Batman. He believes the only thing differentiating the two is this one line Batman won’t cross so he continually provokes, antagonises, ridicules, enrages the Bat and commits increasingly horrific acts to punish Batman for failing to do the only thing that can cure the world of the Joker- kill him.

He wants to get the last laugh. In his heart, he knows once Batman has killed, even though Joker will be dead, he’ll have unleashed a monster more terrible than he could ever have become and he believes Batman knows and fears this too.

That first murderous act would be the passing of the torch; the simultaneous death of a villain and a hero.
It would then lead first to the deaths of all Batman’s rogues gallery, then all corrupt politicians and police, and after that who knows. Maybe Batman would even take his own life from the guilt.
All Joker knows is, that’s how he wins.

 

[ZE_501]

Yeah I dunno. I liked The Batman a lot it’s just I’m personally kind of over the idea of grounding Batman in reality. You can still do a darker take on the character and keep it more comic book style.

I think I agree with this. I'd like to see a fusion of the Burton sensibility with what we saw in The Batman. Which is almost what I imagine Del Toro might do with it, given the chance.

I think any move away from the grounding in reality theme here is going to have to start with the batman character first.

At some point, like any other superhero, the pattinson batman is going to have to do something physically extraordinary, and there’s either going to have to be a technical reason why he can do it, or a good deal more muscle to make it somewhat believable. Personally, I’d much prefer the latter, but if they’re going to stick with (IMO) a “skinny batman”, then he’ll no doubt have some sort of gadget that will have to be explained.

I've seen plenty of martial artists do physically extraordinary things and they're not particularly big.

 

[ZE_501]

He wants to get the last laugh. In his heart, he knows once Batman has killed, even though Joker will be dead, he’ll have unleashed a monster more terrible than he could ever have become and he believes Batman knows and fears this too.

That first murderous act would be the passing of the torch; the simultaneous death of a villain and a hero.
It would then lead first to the deaths of all Batman’s rogues gallery, then all corrupt politicians and police, and after that who knows. Maybe Batman would even take his own life from the guilt.
All Joker knows is, that’s how he wins.

But would it?

Maybe he just turns into the Punisher in a bat suit. Castle's been depicted a few different ways and he's definitely a murderer by definition, but a monster more terrible than the Joker? Not by a longshot. Why would Batman be worse? It's not like he's going to start murdering innocent people.

 

[Wor-Gar]

That's a pretty dumb goal.

 

[jye4ever]

That's a pretty dumb goal.

Wor-Kostis

Grant it with 2,350 less words.

 

[BigWayne]

I've seen plenty of martial artists do physically extraordinary things and they're not particularly big.

When I say “physically extraordinary” I’m not referring to simply breaking boards or doing gymnastics. I’m using it in the context of a super hero. Some examples of this are running through a wall or lifting a car or even tearing apart a structure to save someone. When it comes to batman, IMO, there’s no substitute for brute strength to go with his sheer determination. Again, just my opinion, but in the end, batman has to have some bulk and raw power to him.

“You have nothing! Nothing to threaten me with! Nothing to do with all your strength” - Heath Ledger as The Joker

 

[Wor-Gar]

I thought Joker was the Clown Prince of Crime.

Crime.

Wanting to trick Batman into committing murder is fine, as a personal goal. But in the end, he's just a criminal.

This is a response going back to the 'core' of what these Bat-villains are: criminals, terrorists, thieves and killers.

 

[Chopper Face]

I thought Joker was the Clown Prince of Crime.

Crime.

Wanting to trick Batman into committing murder is fine, as a personal goal. But in the end, he's just a criminal.

This is a response going back to the 'core' of what these Bat-villains are: criminals, terrorists, thieves and killers.

Ye the Batman / Joker relationship has morphed into some star-crossed, twisted romance as it’s developed. Of course, like most of the Bat’s rogues gallery, he began as just another criminal with a gimmick.

A lot of of the villains have a personal vendetta against Batman and a simple desire to prove their superiority to him in one way or another; Bane physically, Riddler intellectually, Joker Ideologically.

But would it?

Maybe he just turns into the Punisher in a bat suit. Castle's been depicted a few different ways and he's definitely a murderer by definition, but a monster more terrible than the Joker? Not by a longshot. Why would Batman be worse? It's not like he's going to start murdering innocent people.

Sure, to us rational folk, we don’t see why killing someone undeniably deserving to be taken out of the picture like the Joker would be such a bad thing for society or Batman himself but, for some reason, Batman has his one rule and refuses to break it, even though it seems illogical and to actually perpetuate crime and mass death in the city he claims to want to protect.

Murdering villains is not a big deal to us but it is to him. Why is that?
Is killing the one thing he feels truly differentiates him from all the other costumed freaks? Does he think it makes him better than them or other heroes who do kill?
Does he feel it would disgrace his parent’s memory allowing their murders to turn their son into a killer?
Does he deep down lust for blood and identifies this as a craving akin to any other substance abuse where, if he were to indulge just once, he’d forever be chasing the next and more potent high?
Is he simply afraid or unwilling to succeed and clean up Gotham for good- because what would his purpose be in a city without crazies- so he merely captures the villains until they inevitably escape and he is required again to ‘save the day.’
Maybe he actually an optimist and truly believes in rehabilitation and if his worst day didn’t make him a psychotic murderer, there’s hope for everyone?

Batman is a pretty different animal to Punisher in psychological terms, even though they both have strict moral codes, seemingly similar motivations as reactions to traumatic losses and use certain imagery and tactics to evoke fear; Punisher still kills pretty much every criminal in his way and Batman never kills.

For Frank, killing is completely dissociative. He was trained to kill as a tactical necessity. He’s simply removing threats and dealing in simple black and white terms. You bad- you die. It’s all in service of the mission so he doesn’t have to feel any guilt for lives he takes. You choose your side in his game and, if you stand against what Frank stands for, you get what’s coming.

Batman hides it well and controls it most the time but he’s way more emotionally driven. It’s always personal because he’s never not the 10 year old boy standing in that damp alley watching his parents die for nothing.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Ye the Batman / Joker relationship has morphed into some star-crossed, twisted romance as it’s developed. Of course, like most of the Bat’s rogues gallery, he began as just another criminal with a gimmick.

A lot of of the villains have a personal vendetta against a Batman and a simple desire to prove their superiority to him in one way or another; Bane physically, Riddler intellectually, Joker Ideologically.

Agreed.