The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[csutkakoma]

Would what?..Batman at this point in the film was clumsy. I am happy with the movie as is just, i think it would have been nice to see Blake as a extraordinary character not just by the way he thinks but, physical drive as well, more then his fellow officers.

Yea, i know he took out the contractors working for Bane but, still.

Blake showing up at Wayne Manor telling Bruce he always thought he was Batman using the Orphan theory and Bruce dismissing it only to have Blake throw in that he tracked him and discovered he was Batman would have added more insult and reason why Bruce/Batman lost his touch as he was soon to be shown the hard way by Bane and really,this could only add more to the reason why Blake could be a good prospect to be Bruce's successor.

I know what you are trying to say and it is actually not a bad idea looking at the movie. I am just a little frustrated because of Rises. It was a huge and overhyped let down for me.

 

[DiFabio]

It's completely plausible that an orphan who was obsessed with a man, and focused on said man, and who had the mind set of a detective like he obviously does, would be able to deduce after however many years from he time he first met Bruce until the time he has the conversation that he was Batman.

But Blake said the other orphans were fascinated with him too. Blake wasn't a detective then, or are you saying a young kid that has a "detective mind" was destined to have that line of work later in life? That sounds even crazier. So, not everyone that follows Bruce Wayne closely would discover that Bruce was Batman? Coleman Reese did and he was only an employee for Wayne Enterprises and figured it out in a couple of months of Batman's existence. He didn't seem to have a "detective mind set".

Sounds pretty convoluted to me. Like we're just making up reasons for someone like Blake to figure it out since it's so random in the film.

The fact is, Gordon, who has way more experience as a cop, has had multiple run ins with Bruce Wayne (the most well known person in Gotham) and knows Batman better than most, couldn't believe his true identity (whether he cared to know or not), but a young kid who just happened to see Bruce Wayne, his eyes and his Lamborghini at a random event that was written into the plot, could?


Where's that Narrows kid with the bad home life from Begins? I bet he knows too. He has Wayne Enterprises tech after all.

but what purpose would it serve the story to start knocking on the doors of Gotham's citizens to ask them if they had a guess of who Batman was?

Ummmmm, the end of the Dark Knight where Batman is supposedly on the run and being hunted by the authorities for killing Dent, cops and other citizens? You know, things like an investigation instead of just forgetting about him? Get people in for questioning that were involved with that oh so important night that I guess somehow inspired an "Act" that keeps criminals in prison?

 

[Maglor]

Yeah and I'd argue that this one doesn't either, not compared to Begins and The Dark Knight. I look at the three films and TDKR clearly stands out as this unusual entry for "da trilogy".


The city being closed off, characters making several trips from long distances in a short amount of time, the huge nuclear bomb MacGuffin (that ALL blockbusters seem to be relying on these days), some flying thing that I guess the military is using, NONE of this feels real.

Weirdest thing in Begins was the microwave emitter. Weirdest thing in TDK was the sonar device. None of those were as grandiose and in your face as the things listed above though. TDKR is like they threw every idea they had and used them with little thought.

UNKNOWN PIT PRISONS, BLOWING UP STADIUMS THAT KILL PLAYERS (and people still listen to this masked idiot), EVERY COP IN THE CITY TRAPPED UNDERGROUND IN THE THOUSANDS, MAGICAL VEHICLES, MAGICAL KNEE BRACES THAT CAN BREAK BRICKS, A CLEAN ENERGY DEVICE TURNED NUCLEAR BOMB, etc. etc.

That's a lot of over the top stuff for the audience to believe in. Parred with unrealistic characters, tons of plot holes in each act and contradiction or rewritten inserts into what previously happened, I don't see how this is a good thing other than pure visual spectacle.

When I say "feels real" I literally mean feelings. You are all head and no heart. I agree that the plot has issues (although I believe you are being over-critical - and not wholly accurate), but that doesn't change the way I feel. How do you account for the fact that this movie has so deeply moved me and many others? Do you really think we are all just a bunch of Nolan worshipers? Do you think my mother is a Nolancom****? Or is it possible that Nolan actually did do something right, and you are just too cynical to see it?



[Edit] WTF, "p.o.o.p." is blocked now? What are we, 5 year olds?

 

[Maglor]

But Blake said the other orphans were fascinated with him too. Blake wasn't a detective then, or are you saying a young kid that has a "detective mind" was destined to have that line of work later in life? That sounds even crazier.

Pretty sure that's the implication. I assumed you got that...

 

[DiFabio]

How do you account for the fact that this movie has so deeply moved me and many others? Do you really think we are all just a bunch of Nolan worshipers? Or is it possible that Nolan actually did do something right, and you are just too cynical to see it?

You could say this for any film. I ain't deeply moved by Twilight, but I'm sure a good number of people are. Doesn't mean I care or agree. Fact of the matter is, there are others, including myself that aren't "deeply moved" by this movie.

I'm sure some people were invested and upset when Harry Osborn died by sacrificing himself for his friend Peter. That relationship was three films in the making. I keep going back to Spider-Man 3 because, other than a ridiculous 70s dance number, it's pretty similar to The Dark Knight Rises. The box office success, the convoluted script, retcons, character changes, not well liked and debated by fans, doesn't live up to the first two, etc.

I think there's a reason TDKR's quality is being debated everywhere you go. It's not just here. I can't understand how anyone could possibly defend or gush over this movie while I'm sure you can't understand why someone would look down on it and criticize it. That's just how it is I guess.

 

[ZaCHw117]

****.




What the hell?


Just rename the site:

We can't say p.oo.p? Fo real?

 

[DiFabio]

Pretty sure that's the implication. I assumed you got that...

ov caawse.

 

[Maglor]

You could say this for any film. I ain't deeply moved by Twilight, but I'm sure a good number of people are. Doesn't mean I care or agree. Fact of the matter is, there are others, including myself that aren't "deeply moved" by this movie.

I'm sure some people were invested and upset when Harry Osborn died by sacrificing himself for his friend Peter. That relationship was three films in the making. I keep going back to Spider-Man 3 because, other than a ridiculous 70s dance number, it's pretty similar to The Dark Knight Rises. The box office success, the convoluted script, retcons, character changes, not well liked and debated by fans, doesn't live up to the first two, etc.

I think there's a reason TDKR's quality is being debated everywhere you go. It's not just here. I can't understand how anyone could possibly defend or gush over this movie while I'm sure you can't understand why someone would look down on it and criticize it. That's just how it is I guess.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/spiderman_3/

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_dark_knight_rises/


Just sayin'.

I know it doesn't prove anything, but I'm a tiny bit offended by the comparison.

You don't think that at least the performances in TDKR are more visceral and real feeling than Spiderman??? [Talia's death scene doesn't count...]



Not saying Spiderman 3 objectively sucks, but in terms of the way the majority are hit in the feels, TDKR has to win.

 

[DiFabio]

and you are just too cynical to see it?

Then I never want to see anyone criticize anything ever again. We both know that's impossible.

You're basically saying to like this for it's own merits, be more open minded, well, shouldn't we do that with everything? Look for the best, positive qualities and shrug off criticism and say "that ain't so bad".

That's not how I am. I either like it or I don't. When I first saw this, I wasn't sure what to think, I was like "huh, not sure if I liked that". Upon each viewing, it just fell apart. Can't help but think how I feel you know? You call that cynicism, I call that reality. Now a days, I see films get blasted for the same issues this one has. It's usually comic book or superhero films too. I just don't understand how or why this gets a pass for doing the same crap but others are ridiculed for it.

 

[intothevoid]

I recently watched the entire trilogy in two days. Batman Begins (BEGINS) on the first day, and The Dark Knight (TDK) and The Dark Knight Rises (RISES) the next day. Also, I have since watched RISES again for our annual movie party. Below are my thoughts. These are mostly about RISES, but they also touch on the entire trilogy.

• All 3 films have the characters making assumptions that require the audience to suspend disbelief to some extent.
  
  1. BEGINS: Ra's assumes Bruce Wayne is Batman (easily the most believable assumption).
  2. TDK: Joker intuits that Batman loves Rachel because of how he ‘threw himself at her’. He is so sure of this that he builds his entire plan on it, yet he never thinks to look up Rachel’s past? Surly it wouldn’t be too difficult to narrow down Batman’s true identity.
  3. RISES: Blake uses his “orphan powers”/early detection skills to discern Batman’s true identity. Is this sillier than the 2 examples above? Probably, but we suspend disbelief in service of the story.
  
  
• I asked my wife if she thought RISES diminishes the ending of TDK at all. She said, ‘the trilogy is a journey, not a fairy tale with one moral’. I couldn’t have said it any better than that. Although I can’t help but feel empowered by Gordon’s “watchful protector” speech at the end of TDK, it has a certain poignancy now. Although sacrificing the truth can serve a purpose for a while, it is not without consequences.
  
  
• On the subject of Escalation: The ending of BEGINS has given many the impression that Nolan’s Batman was always going to be fighting Joker-like nutcases, but I just see Gordon’s line as a way to introduce the slightly improbable character of the Joker while simultaneously building fan excitement for the next movie.
  
  
• Watching the three together definitely gives the impression that Bruce Wayne always meant to put down the cape and cowl when the under-world of Gotham was cleared out. His hope was always to have a normal life. Of course there is more to his motivations than that, and walking away from the Bat after the Dent act makes him miserable. Rachel’s comment about the true mask being Bruce Wayne is true. The billionaire playboy is just an act. The only thing that is real about him as an adult is Batman. However, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a real Bruce Wayne deep down that can be saved. That Bruce Wayne fell into darkness when his parents died. Batman is a crutch until he truly learns the meaning of “why do we fall?”
  
  
• Heath Ledger deserver the Academy Award for best supporting actor, living or dead.
  
  
• After multiple viewings, I don’t see how anyone could think that Bane was only Talia’s thug. Do you really think Talia orchestrated the plane attack at the beginning? Or the hit on the stock exchange? Bane is clearly a tactical mastermind. Both Bane and Talia are thoroughly indoctrinated by the League of Shadows and they saw what they were doing as fulfilling Ra's Al Ghul's destiny.
  
  
• Although I went into my 3rd viewing of RISES with an open mind with regard to Bane having impure motives in protecting the young Talia, I just didn’t see it all. Bane saw the innocence of the child as their redemption and something to be valued and protected. Only the most cynical would interpret that as him being a pedophile. His feelings for her were like those a father has for a daughter, of a brother has for a younger sister. If the feelings ever grew into more than that, she was much older (perhaps during the time that they were both pupils of the League of Shadows). I actually feel real pity for Bane when I watch RISES now.
  
  
• On a related note, it’s interesting that each time I watch RISES different things stand out as being particularly moving. The first time it was Bruce Wayne’s climb from the pit. The second time it was Alfred’s tears at the grave. The third time it was the ending as it relates to the reveal that Bruce is alive. The 4th time I was most moved by all the flash-backs showing Talia’s protector, along with Bane’s tears. In my opinion, if a film can stand up to repeated viewings in this particular way, it means both the characters arcs, and performances are excellent.
  
  
• While Bane is fighting Batman the first time, he mentions that he didn’t see the light until he was already a man. It should have been obvious that he was not the child that climbed out of the pit, but those are the kind of details that you miss on a first viewing.
  
  
• Watching TDK again, I definitely got the impression that only about a year (or less) passed since the end of BEGINS. However, during Bruce Wayne’s hallucination in the pit “Ra's” says something about how Bruce spent “years” trying to save Gotham with ‘all his resources, all his strength’. Not sure what to make of that. I guess even if he was only regularly putting on the cape and cowl for a couple years, he was still Gotham’s Dark Knight for much longer, including the 7-year training period. And (as I said earlier in this thread) even during the 8-year gap he was still a legend in the minds of the people of Gotham.
  
  
• On a 3rd and 4th viewing of RISES, I gave serious consideration to the impression I get from Batman in the suit.
  
  1. Because I was looking for it, it did sound like he was suffering with a plugged nose in a couple scenes (thanks to DiFabio for drawing attention to that. ) It’s most noticeable in his conversation with Catwoman on the roof. I forgot to listen for that problem in TDK, but I have a feeling it’s just always been the nature of the suit. Weird that they couldn’t just give him some better breathing holes.
  2. Although its cool to see all his new toys, Batman does look off his game in the movie’s first act, which I noticed the first time I saw it. But this is intentional. I like what Alfred says about him giving the police a ‘merry chase with a lot of Fox’s new toys.’ Same with the first fight with Bane. Batman looks out of his element as he should.
  3. In the third act he looks awesome IMO. The second fight with Bane is the first time we’ve seen Batman in full daylight, so he doesn’t give off the same dark predatory feel we are used to seeing, but that feels right to me given the themes of the film along with the knowledge that dark is no advantage when fighting Bane. Some might just prefer to see Batman in the dark. I like both and if I want to see that I can pop BEGINS in any time I want.
  
  
• It is very apparent that Batman dislodges a hose on Banes mask only by using one of his gauntlets. First he tries direct punches, then his elbow, and he finally uses a backhanded swipe to hook the hose with a gauntlet blade. He only gets that one hose. If he had not caught it Bane would have beaten him again. As it should be, Bane is Batman’s physical superior.
  
  
• I never realized until a 4th viewing that Bruce found Selina by means of the trackable pearls. I’m sure that means I’m daft, but it was cool realization for me. This is another example of something referenced earlier in the film disproving the theory that Nolan changed the ending to have Bruce live.
  
  
• Which of the three is my favorite? I see it this way: BEGINS feels the most faithful to the source material, and as such I might call it the best comic book movie ever made. TDK is probably the best film of the three on it’s own merits. Heath Ledger’s performance is pure bliss to watch, and the script is nice and tight. But RISES is still my personal favorite. The other two just cannot compare when it comes to emotional impact, and for me that’s what makes a film a personal favorite.

Agreed with everything.

And that's exactly how i'd describe my feelings on the 3 in terms of rankings.

BB - Best Comic Book Film / Best realization of a comic book character on screen

TDK - Best Film

TDKR - My favourite.

Not saying Spiderman 3 objectively sucks, but in terms of the way the majority are hit in the feels, TDKR has to win.

Spiderman 3 objectively sucks. The end.

 

[Maglor]

Then I never want to see anyone criticize anything ever again. We both know that's impossible.

You're basically saying to like this for it's own merits, be more open minded, well, shouldn't we do that with everything? Look for the best, positive qualities and shrug off criticism and say "that ain't so bad".

That's not how I am. I either like it or I don't. When I first saw this, I wasn't sure what to think, I was like "huh, not sure if I liked that". Upon each viewing, it just fell apart. Can't help but think how I feel you know? You call that cynicism, I call that reality. Now a days, I see films get blasted for the same issues this one has. It's usually comic book or superhero films too. I just don't understand how or why this gets a pass for doing the same crap but others are ridiculed for it.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Seriously. There is nothing more for me to say.

Agreed with everything.

And that's exactly how i'd describe my feelings on the 3 in terms of rankings.

BB - Best Comic Book Film / Best realization of a comic book character on screen

TDK - Best Film

TDKR - My favourite.

Glad to see the whole post quoted. I spent hours on it, and all the focus has been on the first point.

Spiderman 3 objectively sucks. The end.

Oh snap!

 

[DiFabio]

No, you say "sorry for your loss" if someone loses a family member or something more serious. Not about a ****ing movie that people don't enjoy.

I lost nothing, still got Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Batman '89 and Batman Returns. (Batman Forever too, I'd argue that despite having a 20 year old orphan that sported nipples on the costume, the character was written way better than Nolan's Robin)


You guys that are head over heels over this just have bad, bad taste and would have settled for anything.

I'm sorry for your over eagerness to claim "best movie ever".

 

[thenammagazine]

 

[intothevoid]

No, you say "sorry for your loss" if someone loses a family member or something more serious. Not about a ****ing movie that people don't enjoy.

I lost nothing, still got Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Batman '89 and Batman Returns. (Batman Forever too, I'd argue that despite having a 20 year old orphan that sported nipples on the costume, the character was written way better than Nolan's Robin)


You guys that are head over heels over this just have bad, bad taste and would have settled for anything.

I'm sorry for your over eagerness to claim "best movie ever".

The hype ensnared you and you went into each showing as mindless, drooling fools. You also will defend it any chance you get and make claims like, "well, my dog liked it and gave it a positive rating on rottentomatoes, so that must mean it's good". Now you can't wait to blow your hard earned cash on crappy, expensive merchandise (that will never be good enough) for a movie that won't age well and be considered the worst of the three in years to come, especially when a better Batman film comes out.

Yepp, sorry for your loss.

 

[DiFabio]

Void, you cried upon seeing Trailer 2, your argument is invalid!


I can imagine Maglor's reaction when Not-Batman flew across Gotham Harbor and seemingly sacrificed himself for a city.

 

[thenammagazine]

Void, you cried upon seeing Trailer 2, your argument is invalid!

This is true!

 

[ironwez20]

People are still argueing about this on the eve of the new year? The movie sucked as a batman film,bring on the next one.

 

[Maglor]

How do you account for the fact that this movie has so deeply moved me and many others? Do you really think we are all just a bunch of Nolan worshipers? Do you think my mother is a Nolancom****? Or is it possible that Nolan actually did do something right, and you are just too cynical to see it?

No, you say "sorry for your loss" if someone loses a family member or something more serious. Not about a ****ing movie that people don't enjoy.

I lost nothing, still got Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Batman '89 and Batman Returns. (Batman Forever too, I'd argue that despite having a 20 year old orphan that sported nipples on the costume, the character was written way better than Nolan's Robin)


You guys that are head over heels over this just have bad, bad taste and would have settled for anything.

I'm sorry for your over eagerness to claim "best movie ever".

The hype ensnared you and you went into each showing as mindless, drooling fools. You also will defend it any chance you get and make claims like, "well, my dog liked it and gave it a positive rating on rottentomatoes, so that must mean it's good". Now you can't wait to blow your hard earned cash on crappy, expensive merchandise (that will never be good enough) for a movie that won't age well and be considered the worst of the three in years to come, especially when a better Batman film comes out.

So we've resorted to "your mom" insults. What a worthless post.


I'm out of this thread.

 

[Maglor]

You guys that are head over heels over this just have bad, bad taste and would have settled for anything.

I'm sorry for your over eagerness to claim "best movie ever".

The hype ensnared you and you went into each showing as mindless, drooling fools. You also will defend it any chance you get and make claims like, "well, my dog liked it and gave it a positive rating on rottentomatoes, so that must mean it's good". Now you can't wait to blow your hard earned cash on crappy, expensive merchandise (that will never be good enough) for a movie that won't age well and be considered the worst of the three in years to come, especially when a better Batman film comes out.

Christ, this has to be one of the most insulting posts I've ever read here.

 

[Sachiel]

The Flaming Rises