The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug

[pixletwin]

Hey guys wasn't DOS supposed feature some massive battle? With like four or five armies? I though I remembered reading that somewhere.

 

[Irvy]

What's the total extra added time for this one? I have AUJ but might just wait for the complete EE set.

 

[Khev]

What's the total extra added time for this one?

25 minutes which still just puts it at 186 minutes including credits. Not even three hours for the whole movie which is another reason this "EE" just feels like what we're accustomed to with normal theatrical editions. Doesn't feel bloated or meandering at all.

 

[Centurion]

Hey guys wasn't DOS supposed feature some massive battle? With like four or five armies? I though I remembered reading that somewhere.

LOL!

 

[Fritz]

I probably would have picked up the Dwarf Key edition but it wasn't available with 3D so I just picked up the 3D/Bluray/Ultraviolet version. I probably should have ordered the Weta/Amazon version though.

 

[Khev]

Does anyone know if there are plans to release DOS:EE theatrically prior to TBOTFA?

 

[pixletwin]

5th link down.

 

[Khev]

I'm not seeing any mention of theatrical releases. Could you just post the direct link?

 

[pixletwin]

Even more specific: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug Double Feature (2013) | Fandango

 

[pixletwin]

Doesn't look like it's the EE though.

 

[Khev]

Ah, okay. Thanks. I remember for LOTR they realeased FOTR and TTT EE prior to the theatrical release of ROTK.

 

[Bo Shrek]

I haven't picked up DOS EE yet but I have started my marathon by watching AUJ EE last night.
I gotta say LOTR or The Hobbit.....I love going back to Middle Earth.

 

[JAWS]

I thought what they added back in helped improve an already solid movie. The moments they put back in slowed the pace down to a level we're more used to with these Middle-earth films.

I would love to see them in 4K.

I thought the EE really improved the film.. As you know and as we discussed before I did not care for the original version and I saw it twice in theaters and did not care for it either time. I tried to watch it once on blu ray and gave up.... I knew I would see it again after the EE version came out. Much like TTT I thought that this film was greatly improved by the extra footage.

My opinion is that it took a greatly flawed film and made it flow better and like you said Josh... Made it feel more like the Middle Earth we were use to... Take the Shape Changer guy... Hated him in the original version... Thought he was great in the EE version... I just felt that almost everything was improved to to the added scenes... Like I said... It just flowed better.. Hell in made Super Legolas bearable to me... Due to the added length of the film... He did not seem in it as much or as big of a part.

Having said that I still have a major issues.

I Hate that Gandalf knows about and fights Sauron... Unless they wipe his memory banks I don't see this flowing well with the original LOTR films.

 

[pixletwin]

I Hate that Gandalf knows about and fights Sauron... Unless they wipe his memory banks I don't see this flowing well with the original LOTR films.

I don't recall anything in LotR that suggested anything different. What scene are you thinking about there?

 

[DiFabio]

I don't recall anything in LotR that suggested anything different. What scene are you thinking about there?

In the LOTR films, Gandalf never faced Sauron before. All the news is given to him by Saruman cuing him in. It takes him by surprise. Gandalf has no background on Sauron, he even goes to Minas Tirith to link Sauron and the one ring together before heading off to Saruman for counsel. He needs Saruman and Elrond to cue him in on Sauron's history and appearance.

Elrond and Galadriel too. They'll be fighting Sauron, but it will look pretty silly in the context of LOTR considering Elrond KNOWS that the only way to truly defeat Sauron is to cast the one ring into Mt. Doom. The White Council in the Hobbit films (not the book) are going to look pretty silly in the context of LOTR, especially since it's only 60 years later. It'd work if Sauron was the "Necromancer", but no, everyone in the films knows that he's Sauron and calls him Sauron by name. You even have the Witch King in the mix. Then again, we could just chalk it up to Gandalf's love of pipe weed and foggy memory. We also see in the new trailer that Gandalf is pretty smashed up from the fight.

Someone could easily make up a reason for it though so that it fits. Gandalf/Sauron isn't as bad as Frodo in the Hobbit. In the Fellowship of the Ring, Frodo is just chilling reading his book. Bilbo doesn't know where he is (even thinks he's at Bag End). In the Hobbit however, Frodo is all like "I'm gonna go wait for Gandalf Uncle Bilbo, see you soon!". The flow with the original LOTR films is already off, best to just not think about it.

 

[pixletwin]

Interesting points. I haven't seen The Hobbit enough to really comment one way or the other.

Bookwise, Gandalf would definitely have known who Sauron was prior to the events in The Hobbit and he surely would have learned the identity of the Necromancer by the time they drove him out of Mirkwood. The big revelation in LotR wasn't the return of Sauron (both Gandalf and Aragorn were well aware that Sauron had returned to Mordor, at the very least, when they tracked Gollum there) but more importantly that Bilbo's ring was The One.

 

[JAWS]

Interesting points. I haven't seen The Hobbit enough to really comment one way or the other.

Bookwise, Gandalf would definitely have known who Sauron was prior to the events in The Hobbit and he surely would have learned the identity of the Necromancer by the time they drove him out of Mirkwood. The big revelation in LotR wasn't the return of Sauron (both Gandalf and Aragorn were well aware that Sauron had returned to Mordor, at the very least, when they tracked Gollum there) but more importantly that Bilbo's ring was The One.

Hmmmm I did not think that Gandalf knew Sauron was back... Was there any mention of this in the book... He seems to not realize his return until he figures out that Bilbo has the ring. Which he only seems to be nervous about in LOTR... Why not before that?

I know he knows who Sauron is.. But thought he was believed to be dead... In the films he states that Saruman the white tells him he is dead.

It just seems that

A. People should be a little more on edge in FOTR if Sauron is back
B. Gandalf must be an idiot not to put the fact that the same time Sauron returns Bilbo finds a ring of power. Sure he does not know about it at first but he knows about it before the events of FOTR and then figures out finally that the Ring might be the one ring... Why.. Because Bilbo got mad?? I don't know... Seems like a lapse in Logic...


From what I have read Gandalf did not know that the Necromancer was in fact Sauron... There have been some complaints of that on line... I am no expert but I don't think it flows well from Hobbit to FOTR.

 

[JAWS]

Well shows what I know..... However I think Gandalf may still be considered.... Unwise for not piecing the whole ring thing together.


SPOILERS



From some Hobbit Wiki site.
The White Council long feared the power in Dol Guldur might be Sauron, but Saruman opposed assaulting it, because he knew that the Necromancer was Sauron, and he wanted to wait for him to grow in power until the One Ring revealed itself to him, so Saruman could then take it for himself, but Gandalf later went to Dol Guldur himself and discovered that the Necromancer was indeed Sauron. He then informed the White Council, and Saruman was unable to protest. The White Council attacked Dol Guldur, and Sauron, not yet powerful enough to challenge them, fled to Mordor.

Sauron continued to increase his power over the next 100 years and search for the Ring.


More spoilers from another site..
Short answer: The Necromancer is Sauron.

Long answer: In the book version of The Hobbit the Necromancer is a periphery character. He’s only mentioned in passing by Gandalf as an explanation not only for where he disappears to every once in a while, but also why the company has to travel through the very dangerous Mirkwood instead of travelling around it. Beyond that, Tolkien believed that the mention of a greater evil beyond his protagonists’ abilities would add depth and realism to the story.

It’s important to understand, though, that The Hobbit was written before Tolkien had even come up with the concept of The Lord of the Rings. He’d already created Sauron (the events of the First Age are the first things Tolkien wrote, though none of it was published until The Silmarillion, after his death), and he knew that the Necromancer was actually Sauron, but he didn’t bother making this connection known in The Hobbit, since he didn’t think it was useful to the reader. And it really wasn’t, until he later wrote and published LOTR.

But anyway, Sauron as the Necromancer: After Sauron was defeated in the Battle of the Last Alliance at the end of the Second Age, his bodiless spirit floated about for some time (if it helps, for those Harry Potter fans out there, think of Voldemort after he unsuccessfully attacks baby Harry.) It’s believed that he spent the first couple thousand years in the far east, regaining strength. He later returned to one of his old fortresses in the south of Greenwood, Dol Guldur. As his presence and power grows, the Watchful Peace begins in the year 2063.

It’s Gandalf who finally realizes that the Necromancer is, in fact, Sauron in the year 2850. But the White Council (led by Saruman) refuses to act until 90 years later (during the events of The Hobbit.) ((POSSIBLE HOBBIT SPOILERS)) The White Council attacks Dol Guldur, driving the Necromancer out, and Sauron returns to Mordor and starts rebuilding Barad Dur, thus ending the Watchful Peace.

 

[The Josh]

In the LOTR films, Gandalf never faced Sauron before. All the news is given to him by Saruman cuing him in. It takes him by surprise. Gandalf has no background on Sauron, he even goes to Minas Tirith to link Sauron and the one ring together before heading off to Saruman for counsel. He needs Saruman and Elrond to cue him in on Sauron's history and appearance.

That's not true at all. Gandalf never mentions the events of The White Council. The news he gets from Saruman deals with the ring and the Nazgul not cuing him into that Sauron has returned. He goes to Minas Tirith to figure out the ring that Bilbo found years ago is the main ring it has nothing to do with Sauron returning, which as Pixle said below he knew because of the events of The White Council. He does not need either of those to clue him into Sauron. That may be how YOU took it but that isn't how it is.

Elrond and Galadriel too. They'll be fighting Sauron, but it will look pretty silly in the context of LOTR considering Elrond KNOWS that the only way to truly defeat Sauron is to cast the one ring into Mt. Doom. The White Council in the Hobbit films (not the book) are going to look pretty silly in the context of LOTR, especially since it's only 60 years later. It'd work if Sauron was the "Necromancer", but no, everyone in the films knows that he's Sauron and calls him Sauron by name. You even have the Witch King in the mix. Then again, we could just chalk it up to Gandalf's love of pipe weed and foggy memory. We also see in the new trailer that Gandalf is pretty smashed up from the fight.

Why will he or Galadriel look silly? When they fight the Necromancer in BOFTA it will be no different than the book events. Elrond will have helped fight him in the second age knowing the ring had to be destroyed and then fights the Necromancer knowing Sauron has returned. The events will play out and look the same as it does in the book. Again, it may look silly to people who have connected the incorrect dots but that is on the viewer not the material itself.

Someone could easily make up a reason for it though so that it fits. Gandalf/Sauron isn't as bad as Frodo in the Hobbit. In the Fellowship of the Ring, Frodo is just chilling reading his book. Bilbo doesn't know where he is (even thinks he's at Bag End). In the Hobbit however, Frodo is all like "I'm gonna go wait for Gandalf Uncle Bilbo, see you soon!". The flow with the original LOTR films is already off, best to just not think about it.

Bilbo has forgotten that Frodo left as he writes in The Red Book of Westmarch. I don't The flow of the LOTR films is just fine for those of us who know what we're talking about.

Interesting points. I haven't seen The Hobbit enough to really comment one way or the other.

Bookwise, Gandalf would definitely have known who Sauron was prior to the events in The Hobbit and he surely would have learned the identity of the Necromancer by the time they drove him out of Mirkwood. The big revelation in LotR wasn't the return of Sauron (both Gandalf and Aragorn were well aware that Sauron had returned to Mordor, at the very least, when they tracked Gollum there) but more importantly that Bilbo's ring was The One.

Well said and the points apply to the movies as well. Some people try to spin their incorrect detective work to make things appear as they aren't.

Well shows what I know..... However I think Gandalf may still be considered.... Unwise for not piecing the whole ring thing together.

At least now you know I was telling you the truth when we discussed this a while back. When talking about Middle-earth it is safe to trust in the info I'm giving. There was no reason for Gandalf to know that was the Ring. It had been with Gollum for 600 years and was assumed to have washed down the Anduin into the sea.

 

[Adolfo]

In the LOTR films, Gandalf never faced Sauron before. All the news is given to him by Saruman cuing him in. It takes him by surprise. Gandalf has no background on Sauron, he even goes to Minas Tirith to link Sauron and the one ring together before heading off to Saruman for counsel. He needs Saruman and Elrond to cue him in on Sauron's history and appearance.

Elrond and Galadriel too. They'll be fighting Sauron, but it will look pretty silly in the context of LOTR considering Elrond KNOWS that the only way to truly defeat Sauron is to cast the one ring into Mt. Doom. The White Council in the Hobbit films (not the book) are going to look pretty silly in the context of LOTR, especially since it's only 60 years later. It'd work if Sauron was the "Necromancer", but no, everyone in the films knows that he's Sauron and calls him Sauron by name. You even have the Witch King in the mix. Then again, we could just chalk it up to Gandalf's love of pipe weed and foggy memory. We also see in the new trailer that Gandalf is pretty smashed up from the fight.

Someone could easily make up a reason for it though so that it fits. Gandalf/Sauron isn't as bad as Frodo in the Hobbit. In the Fellowship of the Ring, Frodo is just chilling reading his book. Bilbo doesn't know where he is (even thinks he's at Bag End). In the Hobbit however, Frodo is all like "I'm gonna go wait for Gandalf Uncle Bilbo, see you soon!". The flow with the original LOTR films is already off, best to just not think about it.

Holy crap...Is this the new TDKR thread...NOOOOOOOOOO!