The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug

[The Josh]

Wife and I just finished DOS EE, my 3rd viewing of this movie, her 2nd.

This movie definitely improved with the EE, things that bothered me the first time no longer did and the additions kick ass, movie makes more sense now to us non book readers.

We both really enjoyed revisiting this movie.

When all is said and done by the time Five Armies EE is released, we will have 6 middle earth EE movies to take us on an emotional and thrilling roller coaster journey.

Sure there will be the usual peaks and valleys of the parts we love, but what an incredible journey as a whole.

Not even Marvel's grand MCU world building plan will be enough to topple the Middle Earth 6 part journey PJ has given us.

I'm so happy that PJ, and not GDT, stayed at the helm.

 

[The Ween]

Tickets on sale tomorrow!

 

[Adolfo]

seems believable

That's what Tolkien said .

 

[Khev]

Crazy Wrong!

TTT was empty before the EX cut... Who the hell was Faramir or his Father before the EX cut....

He was a Son of Gondor who got in the way of Frodo's mission, just like his brother. Boromir didn't need any extended backstory in FOTR and neither did Faramir. I do like those scenes but the movies aren't about Faramir. TTT doesn't hit it's stride until Helm's Deep and the EE is inferior because it makes the first half drag even longer. And interrupting the "Where is the Horse and the Rider" speech with more TREEBEARD instead of cutting directly to Aragorn suiting up is just criminal.

TE FTW.

 

[pixletwin]

Careful. Khev thinks a lot about his opinions.

 

[pixletwin]

The books are not just about Frodo and the ring or even Aragorn. The tapestry which tolkien wove is much richer than that and I think the extended editions reflect that a lot better than the theatrical editions.

 

[Khev]

Movies /= Books. You can't make them the same way.

 

[pixletwin]

Movies /= Books. You can't make them the same way.

True. Luckily I didn't say one could.

 

[Fritz]

He was a Son of Gondor who got in the way of Frodo's mission, just like his brother. Boromir didn't need any extended backstory in FOTR and neither did Faramir. I do like those scenes but the movies aren't about Faramir.

I disagree, Faramir was not just another Son of Gondor. Those scenes further develop the characters involved (Boromir, Faramir and Denethor) and they enhance the story as much as anything else. The movies are about the one ring and it's journey and Faramir is a part of that just like the other characters are.

...TTT doesn't hit it's stride until Helm's Deep and the EE is inferior because it makes the first half drag even longer.

I enjoy every minute of the trilogy and wish there was more. Nothing in there drags for me. For example, I liked seeing more of what happened with Theodred.

...And interrupting the "Where is the Horse and the Rider" speech with more TREEBEARD instead of cutting directly to Aragorn suiting up is just criminal. TE FTW.

This is valid but to me it's more positioning of the scene than the content.

 

[The Josh]

The books are not just about Frodo and the ring or even Aragorn. The tapestry which tolkien wove is much richer than that and I think the extended editions reflect that a lot better than the theatrical editions.

Bingo! Khev has the right to his opinion but I think he looks at is as more of just a movie fan with no true understanding of the material. I don't mean that to sound as jerky as it sounds but for those of us who have spent a fair amount of time with the material it is why we feel the EE are the definitive versions.

I disagree, Faramir was not just another Son of Gondor. Those scenes further develop the characters involved (Boromir, Faramir and Denethor) and they enhance the story as much as anything else. The movies are about the one ring and it's journey and Faramir is a part of that just like the other characters are.



I enjoy every minute of the trilogy and wish there was more. Nothing in there drags for me. For example, I liked seeing more of what happened with Theodred.



This is valid but to me it's more positioning of the scene than the content.

to all of this.

 

[Khev]

Bingo! Khev has the right to his opinion but I think he looks at is as more of just a movie fan with no true understanding of the material. I don't mean that to sound as jerky as it sounds but for those of us who have spent a fair amount of time with the material it is why we feel the EE are the definitive versions.

Peter Jackson has gone on record as saying that the LOTR TE are what he considers to be the definitive versions. Does he not understand the material either?

Though I do wonder if he feels the same about The Hobbit. AUJ and DOS EE's are *so* much better than the TE's IMO. The EE's don't just add extra fluff, but critical changes to the pace and characters, all for the better.

It seemed like with LOTR he just added in pretty much every extra scene that they shot, for better or for worse whereas for The Hobbit he's being more selective with the added material and only extending it with more good stuff. There was a preview clip of DOS last April or so that showed Bilbo on Bard's barge complaining about the cold and how he never should have left the Shire. Where was that on the EE? I think PJ decided it would have detracted from the film.

 

[Fritz]

Peter Jackson has gone on record as saying that the LOTR TE are what he considers to be the definitive versions. Does he not understand the material either?

For the regular movie goer. He's also gone on record saying the EE were for the fans.

...It seemed like with LOTR he just added in pretty much every extra scene that they shot, for better or for worse whereas for The Hobbit he's being more selective with the added material and only extending it with more good stuff. There was a preview clip of DOS last April or so that showed Bilbo on Bard's barge complaining about the cold and how he never should have left the Shire. Where was that on the EE? I think PJ decided it would have detracted from the film.

I'm not sure that's the case, there are some scenes that I can remember that weren't added, like the Moria Orcs chasing the Fellowship and Arwen at the battle of Helms Deep off the top of my head.

 

[The Josh]

Peter Jackson has gone on record as saying that the LOTR TE are what he considers to be the definitive versions. Does he not understand the material either?

He is on record saying that the TE are his definitive version. He also explains that the EE are for fans of the books but I didn't say Jackson lacks any understanding because he thinks the TE are the definitive versions. He believes that because as a director he has a certain pace and feel he wants to his films. I know he understands the material because he put material back in that enhances the story for fans of the source material. Nice try though.

Here's the full quote for Jackson on how he look the two.

The extended versions are interesting because I do the extended versions for the fans, really. To me every time I put a scene in it, it's mucking up the momentum. The theatrical versions are very carefully worked out. We spent a whole year trying to get the best possible cut. I do the extended cuts because we have 30-40 minutes of footage that people are interested in, fans of the books. It's usually related to something that's in the book. It's a legitimate part of the adaptation of the Lord of the Rings and you can either have it lost forever or you can put an extended cut out. So I do these extended cuts thinking that people will like to see these scenes. But I'm aware every time I put something in [that] the momentum of the scene going to be slow. This is going to slow the first act down. Every time I think I'm spoiling the film, but I'm doing it because people want to see it and they'll see it in their home. The DVD has a different dynamic. You can watch it over two nights or you can pause it and make a cup of tea. The whole pacing on the DVD seems to have a different requirement or level of commitment from the audience. Then I read these reviews that say this is so much better than the theatrical version. And I think, 'Oh God!' The big question is, if you took this 3 hour and 40 minute version of the Two Towers and released it in the cinemas, what would people have thought of it? Everyone would have criticized it for being too long. Yet on video, they think it's better. I'm finding it fascinating because it's new. It's a whole different development in filmmaking that's because of the new technology and the way DVDs are establishing themselves. Packages for fans, the documentary materials, it's interesting. I don't know quite what the rules are.

 

[Khev]

You can't pick and choose who you deem as "understanding" the material based on whether they prefer the TE's or the EE's, especially since the director himself disagrees with you Josh. You like the EE's because you want every scene from the book up on the screen regardless of whether or not it makes for a better film. I get that. I have no problem with you having a lack of understanding on what scenes are best for the movie vs. those left on the page.

 

[The Josh]

You can't pick and choose who you deem as "understanding" the material based on whether they prefer the TE's or the EE's, especially since the director himself disagrees with you Josh. You like the EE's because you want every scene from the book up on the screen regardless of whether or not it makes for a better film. I get that. I have no problem with you having a lack of understanding on what scenes are best for the movie vs. those left on the page.

The EE better represent the source material. This is why they're the definitive versions of the films for fans of the source material. It's also why I'd say 9/10 people would say those are the proper versions of the movie is because they're just a bit better than the TE. Jackson's reasons and yours are totally different.

 

[jye4ever]

I haven't seen the TE of LOTR since the theater viewings, I'm so used to the EE that I keep thinking that the EE were the TE.

 

[The Josh]

I haven't seen the TE of LOTR since the theater viewings, I'm so used to the EE that I keep thinking that the EE were the TE.

I have multiple copes of both (not shocking I know) and I can't recall the last time I watched the TE of any of the films. To be fair I've lost count how many times I've seen the films in general.

 

[jye4ever]

Josh

which of the 3 do you think benefits the most from the EE?

 

[The Josh]

Josh

which of the 3 do you think benefit the most from the EE?

I think TTT probably does.

 

[rushmore223]

I love the EE's, for me they are the only version of the film now. It's not because more = better, but the added material fleshes out the characters and the world they live in far better than the TE did. I can think of one scene I would not have wanted to be included in Fellowship, and that is the Tom Bombadil/Barrow Wight scene. The character of Tom Bombadil didnt really fit in with the tone that Jackson was setting and to be honest, didnt feel like it had any real bearing on the story.

As far as I recall, I don't even think that scene was filmed, but had it been, I dont think it would have meshed well with the overall film. So, more is not always better.