The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug

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I think TTT probably does.

Interesting, only because I keep reading that the climatic apex of Helms Deep is eliminated with the EE.

For me it's not, but I get where that point of view comes from.

The reason I prefer the EE is because I'm in no rush for the movie resolution to arrive, I prefer to get to know each and everyone of the character motivations as much as possible, I don't feel that slowing down the pace of the movies has a negative impact on the overall narrative flow of the story, nor that it reduces the weight and gravitas from the pivotal moments.

I also need to add that the first 45 minutes of FOTR has to be one of the most perfect cinematic moments ever put on film, scratch that, the entire damn movie is perfect.
 
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Interesting, only because I keep reading that the climatic apex of Helms Deep is eliminated with the EE.

For me it's not, but I get where that point of view comes from.

The reason I prefer the EE is because I'm in no rush for the movie resolution to arrive, I prefer to get to know each and everyone of the character motivations as much as possible, I don't feel that slowing down the pace of the movies has a negative impact on the overall narrative flow of the story, nor that it reduces the weight and gravitas from the pivotal moments.

I also need to add that the first 45 minutes of FOTR has to be one of the most perfect cinematic moments ever put on film, scratch that, the entire damn movie is perfect.

Fellowship ia still my favorite of the series as well. Hard to think of a movie as close to perfection as that one.

Maybe Empire.
 
Fellowship ia still my favorite of the series as well. Hard to think of a movie as close to perfection as that one.

Maybe Empire.

Empire, while great, needs part 1 to elevate it to greatness.

Raiders of the Lost Ark is perfection to me, it needs nothing, self contained greatness.

FOTR is even more special than Raiders because unlike Raiders, it is followed by 2 other "almost near" perfect movies.

Raiders is followed up with nothing but crap, TOD is no TT.

I prefer the EEs. They fill in some gaps for me.

:lol :lol
 
weenie needs help filling in gaps?

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Interesting, only because I keep reading that the climatic apex of Helms Deep is eliminated with the EE.

For me it's not, but I get where that point of view comes from.

The reason I prefer the EE is because I'm in no rush for the movie resolution to arrive, I prefer to get to know each and everyone of the character motivations as much as possible, I don't feel that slowing down the pace of the movies has a negative impact on the overall narrative flow of the story, nor that it reduces the weight and gravitas from the pivotal moments.

I also need to add that the first 45 minutes of FOTR has to be one of the most perfect cinematic moments ever put on film, scratch that, the entire damn movie is perfect.

I choose TTT because of the impact alone made on Faramir. He's fairly unlikeable in TTT TE and because of the EE he more resembles the honorable character you get in the book. I don't think anything about TTT is hurt by what was done in the EE. I'm with you that I love that these movies are long because you get to just spend so much great time in a fantastic world with fantastic characters. As you said you get to know them and all the motivations that are going into why things are being done. It's why I watch them every year and why I read the books every year.
 
The EE better represent the source material. This is why they're the definitive versions of the films for fans of the source material. It's also why I'd say 9/10 people would say those are the proper versions of the movie is because they're just a bit better than the TE. Jackson's reasons and yours are totally different.

See Josh, you don't speak for all fans of the source material, no more than I speak for all fans of SW, Captain America, or LOTR either. You can only speak for the opinions of yourself. These are not books or movies that all people like for the same reasons. Don't kid yourself into thinking that they are and that you are their spokesman.

I love LOTR/The Hobbit, and I love the books, and I even love all the vintage animated tellings, including the maligned Bakshi 1978 film which was my first exposure to Tolkien back in the day. I can just as easily turn it around and say why any one version is the "definitive version" for all people who think "x" or whatever. But that would be silly.

I get that you like the EE's because you just want as many scenes from the book to play out on screen and that you want to spend as much time as possible viewing Middle-Earth regardless of how well it flows or makes sense in the context of other movie scenes. Middle-Earth is your "baby" and like a soldier in some foreign land who gets sent home video footage of his newborn son you don't care about the quality of the footage, you want to see your son, for hours and hours and hours even if he's filling his diaper and spitting up his food. :)

But Middle-Earth isn't so sacred that I'll take any and everything. I still love the art of packaging the stories into tight, efficiently told cinematic tales. And you CAN have tight, efficient tales that hit the three hour mark, just like the theatrical FOTR. I just think that once you pass three hours, it becomes damn hard to keep that quality going. Hell, most films can't maintain it for two hours or even 90 minutes.

And I do agree with PJ with regard to FOTR and TTT. If you're watching these films in one sitting and want the best possible experience then theatrical is the way to go. If you're dividing the movies up over three nights and clinking your tea glasses with your friends in the "Finer Things" club and are just watching some scenes here and there then yeah, the context and dramatic flow is less important and you get more mileage out of the EE's for the first two films. That's what PJ said and I 100% agree with it. But I don't do that. When I sit down to watch a movie I watch a movie. I don't sit with the book open in my lap turning the pages with the film, nodding in approval when some scene plays out on screen and scowling when something is skipped over. Forget that, and if it means some characters change from the book to the page or you lose some cool line of dialogue from the book so be it.

For whatever it's worth I agree that the EE's are superior for three out of the five films. As much as I hate the ROTK EE spoiling the fact that the ghosts help attack the pirates you just can't have ROTK without seeing Saruman meet a satisfying end or the Mouth of Sauron making his gnarly speech. And the AUJ and DOS EE's add nothing but good IMO. So it's really just the first two films that we disagree on, and NOT because you "understand" or get things better than I do, you simply have different criteria that you personally are looking for when you sit down to watch them.
 
I also need to add that the first 45 minutes of FOTR has to be one of the most perfect cinematic moments ever put on film, scratch that, the entire damn movie is perfect.

FOTR is truly a special thing.

It's a bit hard for me to decide which EE is the most "necessary" of all the films but right now I'd probably lean toward DOS. More than any other TE it really did feel like whole characters and locales were just glossed over in order to move the heroes to the next action sequence. I never felt like anything was rushed in the previous four films other than Saruman's off hand dismissal at the beginning of ROTK. Hmm, and he was such a major force to just hand wave away. Man that's tough, it really is a toss up between DOS and ROTK.
 
See Josh, you don't speak for all fans of the source material, no more than I speak for all fans of SW, Captain America, or LOTR either. You can only speak for the opinions of yourself. These are not books or movies that all people like for the same reasons. Don't kid yourself into thinking that they are and that you are their spokesman.

I know I don't. I've never said that and there are plenty of hardcore folks that don't like these movies at all. I just think I've got a pretty good idea of what works for a lot of folks who like these movies and are quite familiar with the books. I don't think we all like them or dislike them for the same reason. Again, that isn't something I've said. I'm not their spokesman but as one of the members of the board that has a pretty good grasp of what does and doesn't work I'll chime in when I see fit.

I love LOTR/The Hobbit, and I love the books, and I even love all the vintage animated tellings, including the maligned Bakshi 1978 film which was my first exposure to Tolkien back in the day. I can just as easily turn it around and say why any one version is the "definitive version" for all people who think "x" or whatever. But that would be silly.

That's great. I'm glad you enjoy Middle-earth. I really am. I just think if you took a poll the EE would be chosen by most fans as I said.

I get that you like the EE's because you just want as many scenes from the book to play out on screen and that you want to spend as much time as possible viewing Middle-Earth regardless of how well it flows or makes sense in the context of other movie scenes. Middle-Earth is your "baby" and like a soldier in some foreign land who gets sent home video footage of his newborn son you don't care about the quality of the footage, you want to see your son, for hours and hours and hours even if he's filling his diaper and spitting up his food. :)

I like the EE because they are without a shadow of a doubt the better versions of each film. They take the quality of what makes the TE works so well and expand upon them with more great material from the source. Everything Jackson put back in these movies flows and makes perfect sense within the other scenes of these movies that is why these take that next step in how great this series is. So no I just don't take whatever I can get. My standards are higher than that.

But Middle-Earth isn't so sacred that I'll take any and everything. I still love the art of packaging the stories into tight, efficiently told cinematic tales. And you CAN have tight, efficient tales that hit the three hour mark, just like the theatrical FOTR. I just think that once you pass three hours, it becomes damn hard to keep that quality going. Hell, most films can't maintain it for two hours or even 90 minutes.

I won't either. I expect it to be high quality items like we've gotten back in for most of these films (the Dwarves bathing in AUJ is a bit silly as an example of what not to add in). That's fine that you want the readers digest version of Middle-earth. I have no problem with that. There are I'm sure lots of people who want to get in and out of the experience fairly quickly. Then you have others like myself who want a high quality experience with the source material and we get that with the EE.

And I do agree with PJ with regard to FOTR and TTT. If you're watching these films in one sitting and want the best possible experience then theatrical is the way to go. If you're dividing the movies up over three nights and clinking your tea glasses with your friends in the "Finer Things" club and are just watching some scenes here and there then yeah, the context and dramatic flow is less important and you get more mileage out of the EE's for the first two films. That's what PJ said and I 100% agree with it. But I don't do that. When I sit down to watch a movie I watch a movie. I don't sit with the book open in my lap turning the pages with the film, nodding in approval when some scene plays out on screen and scowling when something is skipped over. Forget that, and if it means some characters change from the book to the page or you lose some cool line of dialogue from the book so be it.

I disagree with PJ. I don't always agree with him so it's ok. :lol I've sat through multiple EE runs in one day either at home or the theater. That is the absolute best possible experience. There really isn't any room for debate on this issue. That's not to say a TE marathon is bad because it sure as hell isn't but it isn't the best way to experience The Lord of the Rings in one long story. I don't think I know anyone who does that either. Maybe purists but I sure as hell am not one of those. So I don't mind changes to the books at all within certain limits.

For whatever it's worth I agree that the EE's are superior for three out of the five films. As much as I hate the ROTK EE spoiling the fact that the ghosts help attack the pirates you just can't have ROTK without seeing Saruman meet a satisfying end or the Mouth of Sauron making his gnarly speech. And the AUJ and DOS EE's add nothing but good IMO. So it's really just the first two films that we disagree on, and NOT because you "understand" or get things better than I do, you simply have different criteria that you personally are looking for when you sit down to watch them.

ok.
 
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That's fine that you want the readers digest version of Middle-earth. I have no problem with that. There are I'm sure lots of people who want to get in and out of the experience fairly quickly.

Comments like this show that you just aren't following along. I have stated several times that I prefer the EE for 3 out of the 5 films, the majority of the series. And you say that I'm all about the Reader's Digest and that I want in and out the experience quickly. You just aren't following bud. I don't crave short movies and I don't crave long ones. I crave quality. Which is why I recognize that for some the shorter is the better film and others (like the 17 hour ROTK EE) the longer is better. You just want long. The end. All EE all the time. And if you're just going to go Extended, day in day out no matter the film then that suggests you just like quantity of footage and not quality. You can say "oh no the longer version just happens to be better uh, like 100% of the time" but I don't buy it. There's no way that PJ was 5 for 5 in making the longer films better. You can claim it until you're blue in the face but again, I don't buy it. :)

In cutting FOTR and TTT down to make for more feasible one-sitting experiences he naturally trimmed what he saw as the weakest parts of the narrative. And he was right and ended up with better films for it. ROTK was SO long that when he trimmed it down he took out too much good with the bad. So that's why its EE is actually superior.

I haven't watched enough of the AUJ EE to analyze why exactly I think he cut what he cut but I don't think there are any weak scenes and that the nature of that particular film benefits from a meandering approach because it echoes the group's journey.

With DOS I think he overcompensated against complaints that AUJ was too long or boring and cut way too much good stuff and made it way too short. So again, EE wins out with that one too.
 
I'm following along just fine. You get the "quality" you're looking for with the TE that's fine. Myself and others get it with the EE. So I can say easily he's 5/5 with the EE. I don't event blink when thinking/saying it. You don't agree that's fine. I really don't care. Enjoy Middle-earth however you want to enjoy it. :)
 
I'm following along just fine.

So stubborn Josh. :lol You literally claim that I'm looking for Reader's Digest versions of the stories when I had already stated that I actually prefer the long version most of the time and yet you can't acknowledge that your assumptions were off base. All right dude, who am I to convince you otherwise. Clearly you know my preferences better than I do. :duff
 
Josh, stop deleting my posts. Seriously, this is a discussion board.

I'm pretty sure the other mods and Dave wouldn't agree with some of your actions as of late. You can't just put posts back up that a user deletes when you feel like retorting it or delete posts that you don't agree with. I can see when a user is breaking the rules, but what you're doing is clearly an abuse on your part. This isn't your forum, you just moderate it. These aren't your threads, not even these Hobbit ones. Take it easy. Next post of mine that is reinserted, deleted or edited by you, I'm making a stink about it in the forum suggestions thread.
 
I deleted the one post because you were trolling. Don't like it. Don't do it. I'll continue to do so if you continue to do so. Clear enough for you? Besides I thought you stomped your feet and quit the board? That's what we usually do with the cancel tag under usernames so you may want to change that.
 
Josh just said he deleted it Snoopy?

It wasn't trolling (or not my intent anyway), it's the truth. Josh DOES get worked up around this time of year when a new movie is about to hit. I've never seen a mod act like this before. Not Khev, not Kara, not you. He is dabbling in foul play because this particular interest (Middle Earth, Jackson, Tolkien, etc.) I'm not the only one that has noticed.
 
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I know. That wasn't a menopause joke though or a dig. It was sincere and following up Khev's post. November and December right before a new Hobbit movie Josh gets extremely touchy and sensitive about this subject matter.
 
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