The Iceberg Lounge aka GeneralZodLives's Phantom Zone

[GeneralZodLives]

I agree. I really like Cavill and want to see him given the chance to be Superman. I think he can pull it off, but DC isn't giving him anything to work with.

 

[dario2739]

I agree. I really like Cavill and want to see him given the chance to be Superman. I think he can pull it off, but DC isn't giving him anything to work with.

Again... agree to disagree... loved his Superman so far – seems more real, not a cartoon... nice to see Superheroes treated with reverence tbh.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

Again... agree to disagree... loved his Superman so far – seems more real, not a cartoon... nice to see Superheroes treated with reverence tbh.

Again...

 

[dario2739]

I'm tired of DKR being the bible for Batman now. That story has its place, but it shouldn't be the go-to story line for Batman. There are decades of better stories WB could draw on that are better IMO.

WB is rushing things with their new films. Say what you want about Marvel, but they built their universe right. Giving us individual films first to introduce the characters and this new film universe then bringing them together for the "oh, ****" spectacle of a team film took time but it was worth it. WB is just throwing **** on the screen and cramming too much into each film. The films are convoluted and horribly written and the characters are unlikeable--not just to fans but to the general audience. If WB wants to be successful, they're going to have to turn the general audience into fans that feel like they're invested and have to see these films. You're not going to do that with the current DC formula. Marvel understands this and has made a ridiculous amount of money by doing it. It's sad to see these DC characters wasted in what WB is putting out. They could have absolutely destroyed Marvel, but they don't have their **** together.

Well all very amusing... I'm at work right now, on top of that I really can't be bothered to go to that much effort to put together counter argument gifs!
There are plenty though of Nicholson and Ledger's Jokers not being very Joker-like... and that scene to me came over pretty disturbing, you could feel the unease of Common's character because Leto's Joker is so unpredictable... as the scene played out and proved!

I take it though you watched the Darth Vader origin movie, the Obi Wan Kenobi movie and the Han Solo origin film before you watched the original 1977 Star Wars movie... did that spoil your enjoyment of that?

You point to the MCU way of making movies as the right way... again I disagree –*they made movies that way, not because they HAD to introduce the characters... basically because outside of the relatively small comic-book reading community, because Hulk aside, nobody had ever heard of them!!!
Notice how Spidey is introduced into CW without any form of introduction.... why? Because we know who he is!

I'm sorry you don't like the movies or the DCEU.... but that is your opinion, and your opinion does not make what you think true... anymore than my opinion makes my view point right –*For instance, I hate the way the Marvel universe has gone, to the point where I didn't even watch GoTG2 all the way through... turned it off when Starlord met his dad!

 

[dario2739]

No, he doesn't.

Thankfully someone online already covered this so I don't have to scan my extremely battered copy of DKR.

https://legendsrevealed.com/enterta...ually-kill-anyone-in-the-dark-knight-returns/

Yes... he does!!!

You have posted a link to somebody's "thoughts" on it – that's not gospel... there are equal amounts of articles on him killing the mutant!
The guy argues he never kills because he's not wanted for murder... but the comic itself is intentionally vague – there's a shot, there's blood on the wall... and the comic doesn't say he doesn't kill him.... I say he did... you can't prove otherwise!

The funniest thing is that the people that argue that Batman did not kill here...

are the same people who generally argue that Batman did kill Anatoli Knyazev here...

 

[Jameson Rook]

I just wanna say, this is my bible.

 

[dario2739]

Again...

30 years you say?

You say that in one breath and praise the MCU in the other? You think the MCU is true to it's characters? Ant-Man? Doctor Strange? Thor ffs?!!!
Have you read a GoTG comic, because they are not comedy characters!?!
Give me Snyder, Nolan... Burton's vision over the Marvel Way any day!

 

[dario2739]

I just wanna say, this is my bible.

Superb series

 

[GeneralZodLives]

Well all very amusing... I'm at work right now, on top of that I really can't be bothered to go to that much effort to put together counter argument gifs!
There are plenty though of Nicholson and Ledger's Jokers not being very Joker-like... and that scene to me came over pretty disturbing, you could feel the unease of Common's character because Leto's Joker is so unpredictable... as the scene played out and proved!

I take it though you watched the Darth Vader origin movie, the Obi Wan Kenobi movie and the Han Solo origin film before you watched the original 1977 Star Wars movie... did that spoil your enjoyment of that?

You point to the MCU way of making movies as the right way... again I disagree –*they made movies that way, not because they HAD to introduce the characters... basically because outside of the relatively small comic-book reading community, because Hulk aside, nobody had ever heard of them!!!
Notice how Spidey is introduced into CW without any form of introduction.... why? Because we know who he is!

I'm sorry you don't like the movies or the DCEU.... but that is your opinion, and your opinion does not make what you think true... anymore than my opinion makes my view point right –*For instance, I hate the way the Marvel universe has gone, to the point where I didn't even watch GoTG2 all the way through... turned it off when Starlord met his dad!

Exactly--which is why I said we have to agree to disagree. You like what you like, I like what I like, and never the twain shall meet when it comes to these films. Just for future reference, thinking someone that doesn't like or "get" the DC films isn't a fan or doesn't know the comic history isn't going to buy you any friends or make your argument any stronger. If anything, liking these versions of the characters only shows your lack of knowledge of their history. Doesn't mean you can't prefer them, but the traits the film versions have certainly aren't indicative of who these characters have been for the majority of the last 80 years. "Gritty" or "real" has its place, but you can't lose what makes these characters recognizable to the general public if you want to make that big box office.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

I just wanna say, this is my bible.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

30 years you say?

You say that in one breath and praise the MCU in the other? You think the MCU is true to it's characters? Ant-Man? Doctor Strange? Thor ffs?!!!
Have you read a GoTG comic, because they are not comedy characters!?!
Give me Snyder, Nolan... Burton's vision over the Marvel Way any day!

I can praise Marvel's business model because it works. I'm more lenient with the Marvel films because I don't care about them. I'm simply not as invested in the characters like I am with DC's. DC jumped into the middle of the comic book movie boom (that Marvel did all the work to create) and has consistently ****ed it up. They have the most recognizable characters in the world and are unable to capitalize on it because they make horrible decisions.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Yes... he does!!!

You have posted a link to somebody's "thoughts" on it – that's not gospel... there are equal amounts of articles on him killing the mutant!
The guy argues he never kills because he's not wanted for murder... but the comic itself is intentionally vague – there's a shot, there's blood on the wall... and the comic doesn't say he doesn't kill him.... I say he did... you can't prove otherwise!

The funniest thing is that the people that argue that Batman did not kill here...

are the same people who generally argue that Batman did kill Anatoli Knyazev here...

https://www.cbr.com/movie-legends-r...ually-kill-anyone-in-the-dark-knight-returns/

https://moviepilot.com/posts/3879064

This has been discussed to death for years and the conclusion is that Batman either shoots at the wall around the mutant gang member to frighten them, or shoots them through the shoulder.

Also congratulations. You've won the dubious honour of being the first person on this forum - ever - to be added to my ignore list

 

[Snake Plissken]

Also congratulations. You've won the dubious honour of being the first person on this forum - ever - to be added to my ignore list

OH MAH GAWN SOMEONE STOP THE DAMN MATCH!

 

[GeneralZodLives]

DONTDELAY for $5

 

[Snake Plissken]

Thanks!

 

[batfan08]

I'm tired of DKR being the bible for Batman now. That story has its place, but it shouldn't be the go-to story line for Batman. There are decades of better stories WB could draw on that are better IMO.

WB is rushing things with their new films. Say what you want about Marvel, but they built their universe right. Giving us individual films first to introduce the characters and this new film universe then bringing them together for the "oh, ****" spectacle of a team film took time but it was worth it. WB is just throwing **** on the screen and cramming too much into each film. The films are convoluted and horribly written and the characters are unlikeable--not just to fans but to the general audience. If WB wants to be successful, they're going to have to turn the general audience into fans that feel like they're invested and have to see these films. You're not going to do that with the current DC formula. Marvel understands this and has made a ridiculous amount of money by doing it. It's sad to see these DC characters wasted in what WB is putting out. They could have absolutely destroyed Marvel, but they don't have their **** together.

I think that’s the problem with DC. They take whatever good thing they have, they learn all the wrong things from it, and then they push it on people until they **** up. I’ll be honest, I hate what Watchmen has become. When I read it, I was 12, and it was the coolest **** ever. Rorschach was the ultimate badass, Doctor Manhattan was like the Spazz of that universe with his “nothing matters, everything is an illusion” schtick; I was into it, and, apparently, so was Zack Snyder. Fast forward ten years, and I think that Rorschach isn’t a celebration of superheroes, but an indictment of them. He is the manifestation of what kind of personality it would take to dress up in costume and fight crime in the real world; a psychopath who subscribes to a rigid form of moral objectivism to guide his actions and who would damn the world to prove himself right. All of it has this underlying satirical element that people seem to lose sight of; when I read “Hurm. Dog died in an alleyway last night, tire tread on burst stomach,” I think of Gordon’s speech at the end of TDK, in that no one ****ing talks like that. And DC is like that goofy kid that hangs out with the jocks in high school because he thinks he’s one of them, but, in reality, he’s just there so they can keep making fun of him. Except rather than realizing what’s going on and saying “**** you guys,” DC never developed that self-awareness, so, he doubled down on his annoying *** personality that everybody always made fun of because he thought it was cool and, now, it ruins every relationship he tries to form with other people.

Fact is, I’m okay with Snyder’s movies, but I also think that there’s a degree of pretentiousness to it. You can’t “deconstruct” these heroes while still trying to make a superhero tent pole with giant monsters because no one you want to is going to take it seriously and everyone you don’t is going to be pissed off that you had Batman frying people to prove how human he is. I didn’t have a problem with it, personally. I thought MoS and BvS were different takes than we were used to, and I liked them for what they were, but I understand why people don’t. One of the common descriptors I always hear is “Marvel heroes are what happens when you give you or I superpowers, DC is what we would strive to be with Superpowers.” Simply put: no one wants to see Batman fail to live up to his code and falter, today. It’s telling that, at a time of such uncertainty, people almost lash out, combatively, at comic book movies that don’t have some underlying theme of optimism, and I don’t blame them one bit.

Personally, I think they need to look back at the Reeve films and try to gain an understanding of what makes that character great. Camp and ‘70s fashion aside, Superman was ****ing epic. It had humor, yes, but it had a lot of heart, you had Brando doing ****ing Shakespeare on ice for, like, the first 45 minutes of the thing, and, more importantly, it made you believe a man can fly. I look at BvS and I want to like Superman, but he’s like everyone else; he’s so self-absorbed, caught up in what people are thinking of him. Human? Absolutely, but not Superman. You can take these characters seriously and still remain true to their character. I would love for someone to adapt that moment where he hugs the suicidal girl in All-Star and comforts her because, to me, that is the perfect distillation of what Superman is. He’s the big brother to the earth; the guy who’s always there for you, even when you aren’t there for yourself, and I feel like that works on a metatextual level, as well, because I’m hard pressed to think of a time where I’ve picked up a Superman comic and haven’t felt invigorated by it, in the sense that, as a character, he does give people hope. Hell, it’s a testament to that that everyone felt so strongly about its absence in Snyder’s universe.

And, in some ways, I feel like the advent of Justice League has made Snyder’s DCEU age terribly, because, now, it rings even more inauthentic than it did. You value your art and your deconstruction, and, yet, this thing looks about as commercially-driven as a Transformers movie. It robs BvS of any gravity when Batman is cracking jokes, rather than struggling to reconcile the hero he’s trying to be with the murderer he was. In some ways, I feel like Wonder Woman was the worst thing that could’ve happened to DC because it showed them that there were actually parts of this universe worth salvaging. I’d have rather they just let Snyder put a big bow on it and get it the **** out of there.

 

[batfan08]

...and, in case anyone thought it beared mentioning, **** Suicide Squad.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

I think that’s the problem with DC. They take whatever good thing they have, they learn all the wrong things from it, and then they push it on people until they **** up. I’ll be honest, I hate what Watchmen has become. When I read it, I was 12, and it was the coolest **** ever. Rorschach was the ultimate badass, Doctor Manhattan was like the Spazz of that universe with his “nothing matters, everything is an illusion” schtick; I was into it, and, apparently, so was Zack Snyder. Fast forward ten years, and I think that Rorschach isn’t a celebration of superheroes, but an indictment of them. He is the manifestation of what kind of personality it would take to dress up in costume and fight crime in the real world; a psychopath who subscribes to a rigid form of moral objectivism to guide his actions and who would damn the world to prove himself right. All of it has this underlying satirical element that people seem to lose sight of; when I read “Hurm. Dog died in an alleyway last night, tire tread on burst stomach,” I think of Gordon’s speech at the end of TDK, in that no one ****ing talks like that. And DC is like that goofy kid that hangs out with the jocks in high school because he thinks he’s one of them, but, in reality, he’s just there so they can keep making fun of him. Except rather than realizing what’s going on and saying “**** you guys,” DC never developed that self-awareness, so, he doubled down on his annoying *** personality that everybody always made fun of because he thought it was cool and, now, it ruins every relationship he tries to form with other people.

Fact is, I’m okay with Snyder’s movies, but I also think that there’s a degree of pretentiousness to it. You can’t “deconstruct” these heroes while still trying to make a superhero tent pole with giant monsters because no one you want to is going to take it seriously and everyone you don’t is going to be pissed off that you had Batman frying people to prove how human he is. I didn’t have a problem with it, personally. I thought MoS and BvS were different takes than we were used to, and I liked them for what they were, but I understand why people don’t. One of the common descriptors I always hear is “Marvel heroes are what happens when you give you or I superpowers, DC is what we would strive to be with Superpowers.” Simply put: no one wants to see Batman fail to live up to his code and falter, today. It’s telling that, at a time of such uncertainty, people almost lash out, combatively, at comic book movies that don’t have some underlying theme of optimism, and I don’t blame them one bit.

Personally, I think they need to look back at the Reeve films and try to gain an understanding of what makes that character great. Camp and ‘70s fashion aside, Superman was ****ing epic. It had humor, yes, but it had a lot of heart, you had Brando doing ****ing Shakespeare on ice for, like, the first 45 minutes of the thing, and, more importantly, it made you believe a man can fly. I look at BvS and I want to like Superman, but he’s like everyone else; he’s so self-absorbed, caught up in what people are thinking of him. Human? Absolutely, but not Superman. You can take these characters seriously and still remain true to their character. I would love for someone to adapt that moment where he hugs the suicidal girl in All-Star and comforts her because, to me, that is the perfect distillation of what Superman is. He’s the big brother to the earth; the guy who’s always there for you, even when you aren’t there for yourself, and I feel like that works on a metatextual level, as well, because I’m hard pressed to think of a time where I’ve picked up a Superman comic and haven’t felt invigorated by it, in the sense that, as a character, he does give people hope. Hell, it’s a testament to that that everyone felt so strongly about its absence in Snyder’s universe.

And, in some ways, I feel like the advent of Justice League has made Snyder’s DCEU age terribly, because, now, it rings even more inauthentic than it did. You value your art and your deconstruction, and, yet, this thing looks about as commercially-driven as a Transformers movie. It robs BvS of any gravity when Batman is cracking jokes, rather than struggling to reconcile the hero he’s trying to be with the murderer he was. In some ways, I feel like Wonder Woman was the worst thing that could’ve happened to DC because it showed them that there were actually parts of this universe worth salvaging. I’d have rather they just let Snyder put a big bow on it and get it the **** out of there.

...and, in case anyone thought it beared mentioning, **** Suicide Squad.

 

[ShadowGuardian]

There are plenty though of Nicholson and Ledger's Jokers not being very Joker-like... and that scene to me came over pretty disturbing, you could feel the unease of Common's character because Leto's Joker is so unpredictable... as the scene played out and proved!

Plenty of scenes where Nicholson and Ledger aren't Joker like? Care to name a few?

Also for the scene with Common, if the scene played out and "proved" your thought that Leto's Joker is unpredictable, in that is he not predictable?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[xipotec]

I already don't give a **** about Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg.

I will take that one step further.......
I already am annoyed by Aquadude and Cyborg offends me.....

Flash is ok...


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