The Legend Of Zelda The Skyward Sword

[Kabukiman]

A six year old has no concept of sex, gay or otherwise. I don't see how a six year old would pick up on anything sexual from Ghirahim. You're over thinking things.

He's eccentric, indulgent, insane, sadistic and evil. A great contrast to Link and Zelda.

 

[BadMoon]

Most things Nintendo seem a bit over the top. Many characters do seem a bit feminine.

Either way I'm about 3 hours in and loving it.

 

[Kibishii]

A six year old has no concept of sex, gay or otherwise. I don't see how a six year old would pick up on anything sexual from Ghirahim. You're over thinking things.

You may be right that we are over thinking things. We are just very protective of our kids. I don't think it has as much to do with the the act of sex as it has to do with the concept of explaining why a man would be dressed/acting like a woman with full make-up and flicking his tongue at another man. You are right that he has no concept of 'sex', but he does have a concept that 'boys' and 'girls' are inherently different and boys shouldn't dress/act like girls. Hopefully, Gannon will show up because he is a 'manly villain.'

On a side note, he is sitting next to me right now playing and when he watched my wife fight Lord Ghirahim, we had him leave the room during the cutscene and during the fight we just told him that it was a creepy alien. He has more fun picking the little cat critters up and throwing them over the side or playing around with the flying beetle.

My wife is loving the game and she says that it is an improved windwaker whatever that means. She is a major Zelda fanboy (get the pun?) so I am assuming that this is the only thing that will be on for the next few weeks.

Most things Nintendo seem a bit over the top and many characters do seem a bit feminine.
Either way I'm about 3 hours in and loving it.

Yeah, we have played other games where the males were feminine, we just thought this character took it a bit far. It seems like a very well designed game with lots of puzzles, I like how they added the collecting items to improve your weapons. The last Zelda game I played was probably 25 years ago, but I had alot of fun watching the wife play.

 

[cr0w]

You're definitely overthinking things. Here's the thing, and this is a very minor spoiler: Ghirahim isn't human, and once you find out what he is, the idea of gender doesn't apply at all. Frankly, the idea that you're ok with Link killing creatures and humanoids and such at an incredible rate, among other violent acts while Ghirahim's gender/attire gives you pause baffles my mind.

 

[Kabukiman]

I fired up my copy for a bit. I know it goes without saying but damn. I'm over wii graphics. Some of the shots are border line n64

If you have a beefy enough computer, you can fix that:

https://forums.dolphin-emulator.com/showthread.php?tid=19897

 

[CultofSkaro]

My wife picked this up last night at Target and is fighting the first boss (Lord Ghirahim) right now...anyone else feel like this is an overtly gay character? Our six year old loves watching her play Zelda games and we usually let him play, but how do we explain that the boss is a shim flicking its tongue?

Are you seriously saying that having a gay character is inappropriate for a six year old?

Seriously? I mean, loads of cliched kids films have romance subplots between heterosexual couples, and that's not considered inappropriate, so the whole area of sexuality isn't off-limits or inappropriate for kids. Therefore, having a homosexual character is in no way inappropriate. Dumbledore was gay, after all.

Heck, featuring a character that might be gay or transgender or anything like that is a very good thing for kids media. If they're exposed to it and their open-minded and all-round excellent parents explain these things, then the kid is going to be less likely to kill his or her self should they turn out gay, or turn out wanting to be of the opposite gender, 'cause they're taught that it's okay. Which is a good thing, unless you're a God-fearing lunatic who thinks filling a child's mind with images of hell and eternal damnation is a more healthy thing than promoting open-mindedness, lol.

Can't stand it when homosexuality is brought up as a discussion point, especially in a 'Gosh, how do we explain this to our kids?! It's INAPPROPRIATE' way, because that's a silly and utterly outdated view. Then again, you probably didn't really mean it like that and was 'just sayin''. Which is fair enough. But there will be those who it will be an issue with, and I'm sure there's a nutjob family out there who ban their kids from playing this game, lol.

Anyway, you just explain it by saying 'Some people like people of the same gender'. Simple. If they can understand heterosexual couples, then homosexual ones (and homosexuality itself) are easy to explain in simple terms.

but he does have a concept that 'boys' and 'girls' are inherently different and boys shouldn't dress/act like girls.

Then that's absolute bad parenting, isn't it? What if he grows up and decides he wants to be a girl, or is gay? Promoting plain stupid 'values' like homosexuality (or even just campness, apparently) is bad parenting that could quite easily make his teenage years hell should he be gay. Teaching him this stuff isn't going to stop him being gay, it's just going to make his life harder.

Yeah, we have played other games where the males were feminine, we just thought this character took it a bit far.

Erm, it's hardly like he walks around wearing a strap-on or anything. From what you say, a huge number of people in the real world also take it a 'bit far'. So you're basically saying that it's wrong for people to be themselves, which is something that's not going to help your kid in the long term.

Is the view you promote based around religion? 'Cause religion isn't an excuse for it. Religion exists for two reasons - control, and to convince good people to do bad things thinking that they are good things. There's really no other reason for homophobia outside religion (though that's hardly a reason....) so I assume this is why you're brainwashing your kid to hold an outdated viewpoint, and one which might well lead him to suicide in his teenage years should he not match the requirements you've decided to set him. Infact, the very fact that you see some kind of problem of sexuality with this character really just exhibits your own sexual frustration, IMO. Seeing sex in everything, everywhere - pretty common among religious folk, given the repression (sexual or otherwise) it enforces on people.

Really wanting the US to catch up with the UK on this basic stuff. Religion holds no grounds in the modern day, and neither does homophobia. Not to say the UK is perfect, we still have a fair few nutjobs of both religious and purely homophobic camps, but I'd say the majority of us are pretty open-minded and fans of logical thought over mindless acceptance. And, of course, all going to burn in the pits of Hell, lol.

 

[cr0w]

Yeah, I mean no matter how hard you try, your kid's going to eventually run into something you deem inappropriate. Better to educate your kid rather than keep them completely ignorant of any subject that will end up being commonplace in daily life.

 

[Kibishii]

Are you seriously saying that having a gay character is inappropriate for a six year old?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying and, whether you agree with me in your enlightened opinion or not, the overwhelming majority of Americans (and the world for that matter) agree with me as well.
I am not going to reply to the rest of your response because it is quite obvious that we will not agree on almost any points. People have the legal right to live their life anyway they want, that doesn't mean I need to expose/explain it to my six year old.

I do think that it is disappointing that your only response was to go on a flaming rant against someone who has an opposing viewpoint. I am glad that we live in a country where so many different viewpoints can be expressed. I guess freedom of speech/expression only goes one way.

But there will be those who it will be an issue with, and I'm sure there's a nutjob family out there who ban their kids from playing this game, lol.

If it makes you feel any better, he is sitting next to me right now running around the third pillar of light whatever that is.

Yeah, I mean no matter how hard you try, your kid's going to eventually run into something you deem inappropriate. Better to educate your kid rather than keep them completely ignorant of any subject that will end up being commonplace in daily life.

I completely agree that we should educate our children on different lifestyles, social norms, and 'daily life'; particularly when it involves providing a safe educational environment free of bullying and discrimination. However, it will be on our terms and when we feel like our children are mature enough to make a decision on their own; a six year old is not mature enough in my opinion.

In hindsight, it was a huge mistake for me to post. My wife was playing the game and I was wondering if anyone else thought the character was over the top for a kids game. They are still having a great time playing even though the graphics seem far outdated. I didn't mean this to turn into a political/religion bash/debate so I will contact a mod to have the threads deleted.

 

[Star Puffs]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying and, whether you agree with me in your enlightened opinion or not, the overwhelming majority of Americans (and the world for that matter) agree with me as well.

The majority of the world views women as innately inferior to men. Does that make their opinion any less ignorant or bigoted by being the majority one? Racism, slavery, and countless other inhuman mindsets or deeds have or had majority approval.

Also I looked up the word "shim" and it is listed by Wikipedia as a derogatory term for transsexuals. You say you are concerned about "bullying and discrimination" but you use language like that? It is very difficult to believe your retraction when a hateful epithet was the first thing on your mind.

 

[Kibishii]

The majority of the world views women as innately inferior to men. Does that make their opinion any less ignorant or bigoted by being the majority one? Racism, slavery, and countless other inhuman mindsets or deeds have or had majority approval.

Also I looked up the word "shim" and it is listed by Wikipedia as a derogatory term for transsexuals. You say you are concerned about "bullying and discrimination" but you use language like that? It is very difficult to believe your retraction when a hateful epithet was the first thing on your mind.

I don't think I retracted anything other than to say that everyone deserves a "safe educational environment free of bullying and discrimination" and that everyone has the legal right to live life as they deem appropriate. I notice that you did not judge Cultoskaro for his "hateful epithet(s)" regarding people who disagree with him; particularly religion. Again, freedom of speech/expression only seems to go one way.

Either way, I have PMed the Mods to have this ugly debate deleted from the thread so we can get back to discussing different aspects of the game.

 

[snappahead]

I don't think I retracted anything other than to say that everyone deserves a "safe educational environment free of bullying and discrimination" and that everyone has the legal right to live life as they deem appropriate. I notice that you did not judge Cultoskaro for his "hateful epithet(s)" regarding people who disagree with him; particularly religion. Again, freedom of speech/expression only seems to go one way.

Either way, I have PMed the Mods to have this ugly debate deleted from the thread so we can get back to discussing different aspects of the game.

Why do you keep saying "freedom of speech only goes one way"? You seem to be speaking your mind just fine.

And why delete any of this? It's just a conversation that's not hurting anything as far as I can tell.

 

[Kibishii]

Why do you keep saying "freedom of speech only goes one way"? You seem to be speaking your mind just fine.
And why delete any of this? It's just a conversation that's not hurting anything as far as I can tell.

Because, what I have found every time, is that certain groups only believe in freedom of speech as long as the everyone agrees with them. Any opposing viewpoints are quickly flamed down and the speakers are called bigots, religious fools, outdated, etc. I think it is crystal clear that certain responses in this thread reinforce that. Personally, I feel like this hypocrisy at its finest.

I am not speaking my mind and have requested that administration delete the posts because a statue message board isn't really the place. This debate could turn very, very ugly as CultofSkaro's post has shown. Politics, religion, and controversial social issues really don't belong here and it was a mistake for me to post the original post.

 

[Biojex]

So uh...yeah. Hero mode is pretty hard. Anyone playing hero mode yet?

 

[snappahead]

Because, what I have found every time, is that certain groups only believe in freedom of speech as long as the everyone agrees with them. Any opposing viewpoints are quickly flamed down and the speakers are called bigots, religious fools, outdated, etc. I think it is crystal clear that certain responses in this thread reinforce that. Personally, I feel like this hypocrisy at its finest.

I am not speaking my mind and have requested that administration delete the posts because a statue message board isn't really the place. This debate could turn very, very ugly as CultofSkaro's post has shown. Politics, religion, and controversial social issues really don't belong here and it was a mistake for me to post the original post.

Call me crazy, but it looks like you're speaking your mind quite a bit. Freedom of speech is simply the right to speak your mind. That also includes others right to disagree with your thoughts. That's what these forums are all about and what I've been seeing in this thread. If CultoSkaros post really offended you, then maybe it can be taken care of, but I don't think deleting everyone's contribution to this topic is necessary.

 

[Kibishii]

That's what these forums are all aboutI don't think deleting everyone's contribution to this topic is necessary.

No, these forums are not the place for topics such as this and the mods should delete them all. If it is to be discussed, it should be in other topics and even there, it shouldn't be on these boards.

So uh...yeah. Hero mode is pretty hard. Anyone playing hero mode yet?

(best post in the last few pages)

I tried hero mode on Arkham City and had my rearend handed to me; does that count? Christina is having a hard enough time solving the puzzles without going to Zeldadungeons.net, so I am not sure if she is going to try hero mode.

 

[Biojex]

I wonder how Batman would do in the world of Zelda.

But yeah, hero mode. As far as I can tell, the dungeons stay the same but enemies are tougher. I think their damage is double so any enemy that did two hearts of damage now does four and hearts dont appear randomly in pots or grass etc...

I'm consuming more red potions then i ever have in any Zelda combined

 

[cr0w]

Welp, beat it today. The last hour or two really picked up and was among the best climactic sequences of any Zelda game thus far.

Now for my issues with it.

The motion controls, while incredibly intuitive 99% of the time, still mess up enough to cause a huge amount of frustration, especially for people like me who absolutely refuse to stand in front of their TV and pretend to be in an actual sword fight. At times they were needlessly complicated, and compared to Twilight Princess' very streamlined system, I felt they were inferior. That being said, they accomplished what they intended with flying colors and the implementation of motion control in every aspect of the game was flat-out perfect. I just personally prefer the TP controls and found frustration in some cases.

The pacing. There were pacing issues throughout the game, and at times it really seemed to drag, but there was always something at the end of those sequences to bring me right back in and start looking forward to what's next. I guess it did its job.

The upgrade system was, most of the time, enjoyable and brought a lot to the game. I barely used the upgraded potions, though, and got by with the bare minimum of equipment upgrades to progress. The stamina bar was flat-out stupid and I wish it didn't exist. This is the one new addition to the game that I just friggin' hate. Everything about it just pisses me off, and I'm just going to stop talking about it because I'm getting mad again.

Overall, the game is still one of my favorites in the series, and the story is among the best in the entire series of games. Despite my gripes with the game, it's still a very, very good entry in the series and I enjoyed the hell out of it. It's my second favorite 3D Zelda, right after Twilight Princess. I just think my attachment to a traditional Hyrule fuels my rabid love for that game.

 

[snappahead]

No, these forums are not the place for topics such as this and the mods should delete them all. If it is to be discussed, it should be in other topics and even there, it shouldn't be on these boards.


(best post in the last few pages)

I tried hero mode on Arkham City and had my rearend handed to me; does that count? Christina is having a hard enough time solving the puzzles without going to Zeldadungeons.net, so I am not sure if she is going to try hero mode.

These forums are for discussion. Sometimes those discussions go off topic. Happens all the time. You brought up something and it went somewhere you didn't expect or want, so now you want everyones post removed. If everyone who was unhappy with where a conversation went could get a mulligan, what would be the point? I don't have any issue with dropping the topic or what have you, but going back and removing discussion from the thread seems excessive to me.

 

[Kibishii]

These forums are for discussion. Sometimes those discussions go off topic. Happens all the time. You brought up something and it went somewhere you didn't expect or want, so now you want everyones post removed. If everyone who was unhappy with where a conversation went could get a mulligan, what would be the point? I don't have any issue with dropping the topic or what have you, but going back and removing discussion from the thread seems excessive to me.

If this is to be discussed further, open a thread in the "Other Topics Thread" and it can be discussed there. These forums are for discussion, but highly contentious issues shouldn't belong in regular collectible threads. I see that it was a mistake to post the original question and there is nothing I regret posting, but I didn't expect my original question to blow up the way it did nor did I expect the animosity directed towards my viewpoint on how to raise my children. I tried to be as respectful as possible in my replies, but this is obviously a topic that enrages and divides the collector community.

I wonder how Batman would do in the world of Zelda. But yeah, hero mode. As far as I can tell, the dungeons stay the same but enemies are tougher. I think their damage is double so any enemy that did two hearts of damage now does four and hearts dont appear randomly in pots or grass etc...
I'm consuming more red potions then i ever have in any Zelda combined

Batman wouldn't have any problems because he would already have all the gadgets in his belt and wouldn't need to run around a dungeon.

The motion controls, while incredibly intuitive 99% of the time, still mess up enough to cause a huge amount of frustration, especially for people like me who absolutely refuse to stand in front of their TV and pretend to be in an actual sword fight.

This and the outdated graphics have been our only complaints; I know the little bomb things have annoyed my wife, but that isn't really a complaint. She blows herself up trying to aim the things. I would have liked to see the shadow lady from the last game (Twilight Princess?) show up to guide Link instead of the blue-robot-lady.

My wife has this theory that this Hyrule is Hyrule pre-Windwaker. The cloud cities are now the islands in Wind Waker and the underwater is the land from Skyward Sword (did that make sense?).

 

[CultofSkaro]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying and, whether you agree with me in your enlightened opinion or not, the overwhelming majority of Americans (and the world for that matter) agree with me as well.

Always a good start to open with an 'I must be right because loads of people agree with me' argument. Also, the majority of the world doesn't agree with you these days, so that's a plain stupid point to try and make. Regardless, the number of people who believe something doesn't make it right.

I guess freedom of speech/expression only goes one way.

Did I, at any point, tell you you're not allowed to say what you said? No. I simply pointed out the flaws in logic (heck, the distinct lack of any logic whatsoever). This is a discussion forum - don't bring up points if you don't want people to discuss them.

However, it will be on our terms and when we feel like our children are mature enough to make a decision on their own; a six year old is not mature enough in my opinion.

But your question was how do I explain it to a kid? And the simple answer is 'Some people like people who are like them, and there's nothing wrong with that'. Also, what do you mean 'make a decision'? You honestly don't think homosexuals or transgender people simply 'made a decision' to be like that, right?

I notice that you did not judge Cultoskaro for his "hateful epithet(s)" regarding people who disagree with him; particularly religion.

Hateful how? Hateful of a belief system that causes pretty much nothing but suffering in the world, yeah. I think that's a fair enough thing to be hateful of. And it's all religion, not a specific one. And I didn't say anything bad about you as a person - heck, I even said that religion makes good people do bad things thinking they're good.

So, there was nothing hateful towards people who disagree with me. There's only hate to a belief system based around religion (i.e what the MAN tells you to believe), because it causes pretty much nothing but suffering in the modern age. And I also definitely promote freedom of thought and logical analysis - two things that religion is very much against. All it wants is for you to obey. Not think, just obey. And they seem to have got you good, since you believe that the number of people somehow influences how true something is. And you believe that posts should be deleted when they raise points and issues you have no reasonable response to.

Any opposing viewpoints are quickly flamed down and the speakers are called bigots, religious fools, outdated, etc.

Flaming down is more along the lines of OH MY GOD SHUT UP YOU MORON. My posts simply employ logical thought. That is often a difficult thing for religious folk to deal with, 'cause they're trained to avoid that kind of thought. Then they roll out the typical FREEDOM OF SPEECH stuff, and list things they've been called without taking the time to actually THINK about what they believe. How I hate blind acceptance.

You're free to say and think what you want - just don't be surprised when people argue against it, or even call your beliefs ridiculous. If I said I strongly believed the world was governed by a pink invisibly unicorn, and provided no evidence, I'd be laughed at and mocked for it, because it's a ridiculous viewpoint. Millions of people agreeing with me wouldn't make it more true. That's religion, right there.

No, these forums are not the place for topics such as this and the mods should delete them all. If it is to be discussed, it should be in other topics and even there, it shouldn't be on these boards.

From the guy who set off the discussion? If you come into a topic, post something that leads into an off-topic issue AND phrase it in such a silly way ('protecting' your child from homosexuality), things are going to go off the rails just as soon as the logic brigade turn up.

there is nothing I regret posting

There absolutely should be.

nor did I expect the animosity directed towards my viewpoint on how to raise my children.

That's like saying 'I beat up my kids' and then getting defensive and saying that they're your kids and you'll do what you want.

All in all, if your kid ends up gay and you've spent their childhood trying to 'shape' them into what you think your religion wants them to be, chances are their life will be a misery, or they'll kill themselves in a worst case scenario. If you think worshipping a mystic skygod is worth that, then fine, and you're a pretty sick individual. If you cared for your child - truely cared - you'd let them be who they are, instead of shielding them from the realities of life.

And also, don't start debates surrounding stuff that you don't even attempt to understand, and don't base your argument around a text which has no proof or validity, nor should you base it around the number of people who agree with you. Logic and rational thought is the way to go.