The soundtrack for the series is up there for me with the Shore LOTR work.
John Williams is and always will be the best composer.
The OT music is sublime,the PT also has some great tracks.
But yes,the album for this is impressive and I'm loving that they are releasing the episodes full recording both digitally and physically!
Yeah that was my exact feeling as well after struggling to get through the first episode. None of the actors really grabbed me or had the mountains of charm and charisma that the LOTR or Hobbit cast had, and the entire time I found myself wishing I was watching Cate Blanchett as Galadriel instead, or Hugo Weaving as Elrond. Or Viggo Mortensen as the badass loner type. And it kinda felt like watching one of those direct to DVD sequels back in the day where the entire cast was replaced by generic unknowns.
Plus the fact there seems to be no driving storyline behind everything, except for some vague notion that Sauron is out there somewhere.
But I do keep hearing that the second episode is better than the first, so guess I'll have to give it another chance.
Personally didn't find the second episode better, it's just - some things happened.
And I like slow burns. One complaint about the Unexpected Journey was that it was slow, although I happily wallowed in Middle Earth myself and didn't know what people were talking about. Annoyingly IMO that ended up with Jackson choppily editing the theater release of Desolation of Smaug, which yes, moves along, but the extended version is much better IMO. Same thing with BOFA and far as I can tell, people prefer the extended LOTR cuts as well. Leaving out Eomer finding his sister on the battlefield was a crime.
But, it's early yet. Maybe in the end I'll be able to get past the layered short haircuts and really enjoy this as bingeworthy. 5 years is a long time.
Still bummed about this. It seemed the writer/showrunner/head guy wanted to tell the Howard stories in chronological order, which would've been great. From what I understood, new management at Amazon cancelled the previous team's plans.
I don't know if the one Netflix is developing is the same concept or something different.
Galadriel's character is very well set up and perfectly in line with what we know of her in this period, she is not yet the great and wise Lady of Light - though she has always been beautiful and exceptional, she was also once prideful and wrathful. I do feel she ought to be a little more magical and ethereal given her status as the perhaps second greatest of the Noldor, but that is in all likelihood part of her planned arc from a willing supporter and leader in the rebellion of the Noldor, who crossed the Helcaraxe through sheer wrath at Feanor into the wise and kind ruler of her own fiefdom.
Celebrimbor's character is also really well established - the inferiority complex to Feanor, the ambition and desire (though motivated by good) for power, his admiration and partnership with the Dwarves being based on their ability to see beyond the "banality" of what exists and ability to impose their vision on what will be.... all brilliant, yet innocent, indictors to where his story will lead.
Even the original characters and plots feel well crafted and deferential to the spirit and word of Tolkien as much as they can be while telling their own stories - the Southlands as a precursor to Mordor, with the lingering remnants of the days of Morgoth worship are fascinating and we know from Tolkien that Morgoth first found Man to the East and did his best to corrupt them before they were influenced by the other powers. likewise the idea of the Elves as an occupying force is a great one, its fits their character at this time and the almost alien differences in their perspectives to the other races by still being so distrustful of present humans whose ancestors served the Enemy, for them these wounds are recent, for Men they are being unfairly punished for the sins of people long dead. It would be perfectly ironic for them to push these people towards someone like Sauron who would present himself as a liberator.
Speaking of Sauron they cast his shadow over the setting brilliantly, he feels like an ever-present shadow over the happiness of the current peace.
The Harfoots as nomadic proto-Hobbits is brilliant and I love their design and culture, they embody the virtues of home and the beauty of simple things that is so central to the Hobbits as the heart of Tolkien's world - I don't see how anyone is "creeped out" by these characters.
As for the Stranger's identity....
I'd bet good money on The Stranger being Olorin/Gandalf, as I said all along, its the option that makes sense, his arrival at ME at this time of Sauron's rising coincides with the retconned date Tolkien gave the arrival of the Istari in his later writings, his association with fire makes sense given he is "wielder of the flame of Arnor" and a "servant of the secret fire" and later bears Narya the Ring of Fire, also that his flames don't harm also aligns with him being a servant of good. This also makes him such a good parralel for Sauron "for he was the Enemy of Sauron, opposing the fire that devours and wastes with the fire that kindles, and succours in wanhope and distress". Likewise this would be a good explanation for his close love and association with the Hobbits. His lack of memory and almost child-like state also coincides with Tolkien's writings on the Istari "For it is said indeed that being embodied the Istari had need to learn much anew by slow experience and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) they yearned exceedingly. Thus by enduring of free will the pangs of exile and the deceits of Sauron they might redress the evils of that time".
People have this vision of the Istari arriving fully formed and knowledgeable to Middle Earth from a ship from the West, but this is never described so by Tolkien and we can equally conclude it was not so - afterall if they arrived with no memory and the child-like need to learn about the world how then did they sail from Valinor? We know that Gandalf or Mithrandir wandered for a little time before coming across Cirdan in the Grey Havens, whereas if he arrived from the West by ship the first person he would meet is Cirdan's people. Naturally Tolkien's word sometimes contradicts itself and so I have no problem with the writers using gaps and contradictions in the story to tell their own tales, especially where it doesn't "break" the canon.
Other things like how he speaks to the insects clearly invoke the moth from when he is a prisoner at Orthanc, and an explanation for the death of the fireflies could well be something all the like of him not yet having complete control over his power, hence his apparent sadness at their deaths.
Also they already have him wearing a sort of grey/brown-ish cloak....
It definitely isn't Sauron despite the show's attempts to make us think otherwise, Sauron has no need to arrive to ME by meteor - he is ALREADY there.
And the only theories that it is a Balrog make ZERO sense - the Balrogs already exist and are well-established as Demons for thousands of years before these events and should already be deep underground.
So yeah, I'm putting money on it being Gandalf, though if its one of the other Istari I wouldn't be shocked
I feel like this is Tolkien's world - the scope of the prologue in showing the Trees, snippets of the war with Morgoth and the Sinking of Beleriand (the sea LITERALLY red with blood is a fantastic image) were great. I think they did good in showing just enough without it feeling like THAT is the story we should be watching, they also did well to still convey the main points needed for this story using the limited references they can legally make without the rights to the Silmarillion (like showing the shadow of Morgoth but not Ungoliant in the destruction of the Trees, but at the same time not showing the COMPLETE destruction of the Trees in order to still allow for the possibility for book readers that Ungoliant had a part).
The scene when the Ship was returning to Valinor is, for me, perhaps the most "Tolkienian" scene ever put on screen, the forgotten song of home resonating to the returning Elves once more (but not to Galadriel whose heart was too heavy to fully feel the embrace of such a holy place), the parting of the skies and seas, the encompassing light, the birds.... it was beautiful.
Khazad-Dum was just stunning, rewatched the scene a few times, it was incredible to see it as a living city and this adaptation is already doing a great job of adding some much needed depth to the cinematic depictions of Tolkien's dwarves'.
I am a literature scholar, and a significant part of my work and written works are on Tolkien and let me tell you... this is Tolkien. Is it Tolkien with some liberties and creative input by others? Absolutely - but so was the LOTR movies. Indeed some of the clunkier moments like Galadriel's anime finishing move were done first and more outlandishly by Legolas in the movies - if we can forgive that we should forgive this.
Ultimately, Tolkien himself said he wanted to write a fully realized world in which other people might tell their stories and that is what we are seeing here.
So no, this isn't some generic fantasy or S&S flick, it isn't even low fantasy like GOT or HOTD, this is HIGH fantasy well realized and I can't wait to see more.
Also anyone calling this series cheap looking because they are scrutinizing a still photo of a costume rather than waiting to see the costume and scene in question isn't being genuine. There is nothing cheap here, the costumes, settings, effects are all clearly richly produced and meticulously crafted. You can see the money on the screen. If you don't want to watch the show - fine, no one is making you. But don't resort to blatant bull like this to "justify" your opinion. Its your opinion, you don't need bull reasons to not watch something.
Well, I can't respond to everything wrong with this post so I will just carry on with a few highlights. Galadriel was never on a quest for vengeance. That aspect is not in keeping with her character. Nor was Galadriel really the warrior elf. Maybe you can say that due to the participation of rebellion of Noldor? But we do know she wasn't a big participant of any of the wars in the first. Also I really don't know why Finrod would say, "I won't be around forever." He is an elf in the undying lands during a time of peace! Finrod wasn't killed by an orc either, but rather by werewolf. Also, Galadriel was married in the second age to Celeborn. Where is her husband? I was also sad to that we didn't get to see Ungoliant. That would have an amazing sight to see that giant spider, but as previously stated, they didn't have the rights. Sad to see that Morgoth wasn't really explained that well either. Considering he is the Lucifer of Middle Earth. You can go on and on about how the show is different from the books. Perhaps it is better to have not read the books to enjoy this show. Personally, Seeing hobbits and the coming of the wizards in the second age isn't the worst but that is really third age stuff.
I get a headache trying to picture how this show is being assembled with only partial rights to the time period, but I quite enjoyed both episodes so far. There is certainly effort being put in to this.
Honestly surprised the hate brigade has continued so strongly after launch. There's been a lot of cool stuff already. I'm interested to see where this goes.
I get a headache trying to picture how this show is being assembled with only partial rights to the time period, but I quite enjoyed both episodes so far. There is certainly effort being put in to this.
Honestly surprised the hate brigade has continued so strongly after launch. There's been a lot of cool stuff already. I'm interested to see where this goes.
Well, you are going to have multiple camps. In one camp, you have the fans who read all the books and just want the second age of Middle Earth on the screen for the first time. The second, you will have people who read the books and can separate them from the series. The last camp, is people who are the casual fan who have seen the films and might have/or not read LOTR/Hobbit and just want to watch something.
The script right now isn't that good but that can improve. Seriously, a rock looks down? The men laying down their swords. The path of the meteor. Don't try to follow the path of the meteor. It is mind numbing.
I guess I’m the perfect audience for this because I know nothing about the books from that specific age other than it was called Silmarillion with other appendices so I got no stakes in the game with the butchering they’re doing to the age.
At times it feels big maybe even epic but if i’m being honest the first hour was just downright boring and meandering and not riveting and captivating I don’t feel there is a proper narrative moral compass 2 hours in.
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I did enjoy the Orc reveal being more “Alien” solo like than the “Aliens” hive orcs from LOTR that was nice world building.
The show looks great it’s big, better than I was expecting.
I'm part of that audience as well. I didn't even realize Galadriel was Cate Blanchett's character from LoTR (I did however recognize Elrond so I'm not completely hopeless lol).
I wasn't bored either, and I disagree with Jye about the Galadriel actress being just "ok" - I think she's killing it. I like the Bronwyn character as well. I recognize the actress from Homeland, but don't ask me her name. I was hoping to see her friend Arondir in action against that Orc, but I guess we'll have to wait on that.
Also I really don't know why Finrod would say, "I won't be around forever." He is an elf in the undying lands during a time of peace! Finrod wasn't killed by an orc either, but rather by werewolf.
And he got better anyway, but I don't know if Galadriel knew that.
Leading up to this show, I tried to stay pretty spoiler free about it. I'm pleased with that decision. After the Hobbit trilogy and The Wheel of Time, I was really not expecting a whole lot from this, but when it comes down to it, I like it. I especially like Galadriel's sword and her chainmail. Very cool detail work there. I wish there were more languages, but I can deal with that.
The Hobbit Trilogy was better and more accurate to the source material. You know her armor has the star of the House of Feanor on it right? Can't be the Star of Earendil (it has six points). Personally, I hate her sword since it poorly designed with no balance. But this is fantasy, and you don't have to worry about how the user actually using the sword. Still weird you have an elf who is thousands of years old at this point acting like a mean old teenager.
I never said she was on a quest for revenge? Only that she was partly fueled by her wrath for Faenor - which was legendary with them being "unfriends forever" after he and his followers attacked her mother's and husband's kin and she rallied to their defence. Tolkien explicitly says she cursed Faenor all the way across the Grinding Ice and desired to "thwart" him. The only reason she doesn't take direct action against him is because he is already dead by the time she crosses the Helcaraxe.
Or to quote Tolkien himself "“Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the **** of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin, she did not turn back. Her pride was unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon; but now she burned with desire to follow Feanor with her anger to whatever lands he might come, and to thwart him in all ways that she could."
So.......... maybe actually check in with Tolkien before you try to make high-handed statements about what's wrong with other people's posts?
That aspect is not in keeping with her character. Nor was Galadriel really the warrior elf. Maybe you can say that due to the participation of rebellion of Noldor? But we do know she wasn't a big participant of any of the wars in the first.
It certainly is - we know for a fact she fought "heroically" (Unfinished tales) and "fiercely" alongside her brother Finrod at the sack of Alqualondë.
We know she was renown for her man-like qualities in the sense of being warrior like to the point her mother-name mean't "man-maiden" Tolkien says "[Galadriel] was then of Amazon disposition”.
She was no mere participant in the Noldor's rebellion but was a leader of it.
She personally throws down the walls of Dol Guldur.
And as for "knowing" she wasn't a participant in any major battles in the First Age.... this is based upon a innaccurate understanding of Tolkien's writing - he writes in fragments, there are no real exhaustive lists of who did what when that are intended to be taken as absolute or gospel. These writings are intended to be the tales of people from this fictional setting - not a "canon".
All we can say with certainty is that she probably didn't play a pivotal role in the key events of the First Age, so the likelihood of her being "Commander of the Northern Armies" is extremely low, but to say she took no part at all is an assumption plain and simple.
He has the gift of foresight - indeed he had the very greatest gift of foresight among his people and he knew that his fate before him was dark.
"Now King Finrod Felagund had no wife, and Galadriel asked him why this should be; but foresight came upon Felagund as she spoke, and he said: 'An oath I too shall swear, and must be free to fulfil it, and go into darkness. Nor shall anything of my realm endure that a son should inherit.'"
Yes - but there are practical things to consider here - namely that they don't have rights to the Silmarillion or any of the events described there alone - they have the rights to the Appendices to LOTR which mentions the elements shown in the show but miss some others.
I was also sad to that we didn't get to see Ungoliant. That would have an amazing sight to see that giant spider, but as previously stated, they didn't have the rights.
Again I suspect the rights issue is to blame here, referencing Morgoth's "best hits" as it were probably falls outside their purview.
There is also the issue of putting too much emphasis on what is essentially a prologue in that if you hype up Morgoth and the events of the First Age too much then you run the risk of casual audiences going "why isn't that the story we're watching".
This is probably necessary given that the events of the Second Age aren't really written in the form of prose, so much as a loose collection of notes between different events that received far more attention such as the Fall Numenor and the Forging of the Rings.
Perhaps it is better to have not read the books to enjoy this show. Personally, Seeing hobbits and the coming of the wizards in the second age isn't the worst but that is really third age stuff.
There is some debate with the arrival of the Istari as in other texts Tolkien explicitly states that they begin arriving around the time of Sauron's rising in the Second Age.
The Hobbits/Harfoots story is new, but I don't really have anything against it - like I said in a post above Tolkien wanted to create a world in which others told their own stories.
The Hobbit Trilogy was better and more accurate to the source material. You know her armor has the star of the House of Feanor on it right? Can't be the Star of Earendil (it has six points). Personally, I hate her sword since it poorly designed with no balance. But this is fantasy, and you don't have to worry about how the user actually using the sword. Still weird you have an elf who is thousands of years old at this point acting like a mean old teenager.
Not having held the sword, I cannot comment on it's balance, but it looks cool. And since I'm watching TV and not participating in an SCA tournament, looking-good is good enough for me. I found the tone of the Hobbit trilogy to be off and there was too much fat that should have been trimmed/not inserted. I much prefer the tone of this. Different strokes and all that.
Personally, I hate her sword since it poorly designed with no balance. But this is fantasy, and you don't have to worry about how the user actually using the sword. Still weird you have an elf who is thousands of years old at this point acting like a mean old teenager.
Well she is still holding onto the wounds of the First Age - its clearly intended to be part of her character arc.
It wouldn't be very interesting for her character development to happen off screen - would it?
If I was Bezos, that would have been a deal breaker. Don't get me wrong, I get not wanting to contradict the films by Jackson and not changing established canon, but the entire situation is too limiting.
It forces the show into situations like Warrior Galadriel, which will only start to incite some hard core fans.
Unfortunately it appears, by rumor, that some ugly family blood with Christopher Tolkien (now deceased, son) and Simon Tolkien (grandson) may have been part of the overall larger conflict about what is allowed to be released or not. Maybe someone here with more on that can enlighten the rest of us.
It is more accurate than the Rings of Power so far. The whole story line doesn't happen in any of the books. I still don't understand Celebrimbor logic by ignoring the dark. I can agree the Hobbit is over bloated with things that didn't need to be there, but it is definitely more accurate. And so far, I really like it a lot better with that being subjective.
Well she is still holding onto the wounds of the First Age - its clearly intended to be part of her character arc.
It wouldn't be very interesting for her character development to happen off screen - would it?
It is more accurate than the Rings of Power so far. The Hobbit is over bloated with things that didn't need to be there, but is more accurate. And so far, I really like it a lot better with that being subjective.
If you like it more then that's fair enough mate.
But to call it more accurate is....... an interesting choice given how much they changed from the book.
